"VSC" Caused me to total my LC-100

[cmfhsu]

I thought you weren't supposed to hit the CDL if your front and rear axles are spinning at different speeds

 

[1loudLX]

if they're all slipping, i dont see the problem. My t-case didnt blow up (yet).

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I "think" he's saying if you were headed straight and the rear wheels start to come around on you, you should just keep the wheel where it was, applying no correction, as the yaw sensor should detect your "sideways" motion and try and correct you back to your original direction of travel (i.e. wheels pointed straight ahead).

I suppose if you were in a turn, you should do the same, just keep the wheel at the same position as if to complete the turn w/o correcting for the skid?

Yep. The VSC system can think and act way faster than you can. Same way with ABS. I still can't get used to steering while "sliding" with the ABS activating. I've come up on cars at a red light, hit the brakes and have felt the ABS activate and the truck start sliding. When I learned to drive you pumped like mad, turned into the slide, and hoped you stopped before you hit something. Now with ABS you hit the brakes and attempt to steer to avoid the parked vehicles, since your wheels are still rolling and you still have control.

Here's a great vid by 5th Gear on ABS, traction control (ATRAC), and stability control (VSC).

YouTube - How Effective is Stability Control

 

[cmfhsu]

Haha hey as long as everything still works for you. That is a truly impressive story and I'd just like to say that you have the reflexes of a ninja lmao. I wouldn't be able to react that fast

 

[1loudLX]

I was on the phone too, without a hands free device! My friend was like "did you just spin out?" after he heard me go OHH SHIII....ahhh.

Did you hear, I invented the new windows too? At least that's the story around here.

 

[cmfhsu]

Hahaha the popo is gonna get you! Put that away! Ps. you live in Rye right?

EDIT: I posted that and realized how creepy that sounded. I'm a lurker at heart and I read rye somewhere. I SWEAR IM NOT TRYING TO STALK YOU (but i do know where you live)

 

[Topoguide]

Yep. The VSC system can think and act way faster than you can. Same way with ABS. I still can't get used to steering while "sliding" with the ABS activating. I've come up on cars at a red light, hit the brakes and have felt the ABS activate and the truck start sliding. When I learned to drive you pumped like mad, turned into the slide, and hoped you stopped before you hit something. Now with ABS you hit the brakes and attempt to steer to avoid the parked vehicles, since your wheels are still rolling and you still have control.

Here's a great vid by 5th Gear on ABS, traction control (ATRAC), and stability control (VSC).

Of course the VSC can act faster and better than you can... auto manufacturers don't give us the ability to control brakes at each wheel individually, or to cut power output dramitcally. What the VSC can't do is look ahead and plan, it is only using at the moment data; that is where humans have the edge (if they use it). Computers have no idea what the consequences of its actions are it just follow a programmed routine, where humans plan and make decisions/actions based on that plan as well as the real time information.

Is VSC a good idea for most drivers? Probably. Is the end result always better than every driver? Probably not. Maybe there are only a handful that could outperform it, but if you are in that group or at least close VSC becomes a liability in certain situations.

As for ABS. This article is very informative. Is ABS effective for most drivers? Probably, if they drive safe to begin with. Does it work better than all drivers? Probably Not, and the ABS on most cars is pretty pathetic IMO.

As for the 5th gear video. They were driving that car like any idiot that might have been given a license, I guarentee that's not how they drive $100k+ cars on the track... but they made the point that most people on the road are safer with ABS and TCS, and since most people would have no idea what to do in a track car I concede to that point... it still doesn't mean that those systems are better than ALL drivers. So if someone wants to be able to turn it off they should be able to.

 

[FOPLawyer]

So do you do when VSC kicks in under those circumstances... Do nothing and keep the wheel steady?

I've been able to get VSC to kick in playing around in parking lots, but getting the speed up to simulate this type of situation isn't very practical.

My current opinion is that you clench your cheeks and keep the wheel pointed where you want to go. The system will correct a hundred times faster than you can and hopefully will get it right. If not, that's what you have airbags and insurance for.

 

[re_guderian]

My current opinion is that you clench your cheeks and keep the wheel pointed where you want to go...

well... the nuance is all around the tense of this verb... Do you point the wheel where you "want" to go after your vehicle has started to drift/skid/slide? (I think not - that's what put Alaskan_IB into the wall, no?). I think you keep the wheel pointed relative to the car where you "wanted" to go prior to drift/skid/slide...

 

[FOPLawyer]

I have to agree. Maintain the wheel position that you had when the skid began, the system should play with wheel speeds to bring you back in line. I think that the problem is that turning into the skid encourages the system to brake the inside rear wheel while (possibly) accelerating the outside front wheel. This generates increased skid as opposed to the intended decreased skid (Yaw?). Or perhaps I am simply an idiot.

 

[1loudLX]

the vehicle never adds throttle, just sayin.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

As for ABS. This article is very informative. Is ABS effective for most drivers? Probably, if they drive safe to begin with. Does it work better than all drivers? Probably Not, and the ABS on most cars is pretty pathetic IMO.

As for the 5th gear video. They were driving that car like any idiot that might have been given a license, I guarentee that's not how they drive $100k+ cars on the track... but they made the point that most people on the road are safer with ABS and TCS, and since most people would have no idea what to do in a track car I concede to that point... it still doesn't mean that those systems are better than ALL drivers. So if someone wants to be able to turn it off they should be able to.

Your article on ABS has got to be one of the most poorly written articles for bias I have ever read. Seriously. Take this quote:

"The taxi study proved that drivers tend to take greater risks in cars equipped with ABS (although the difference in collision rates was not significant). In short, ABS may do more harm than good"

So, because the taxi drivers have a car with ABS, they take more risks and get in more accidents. And they draw the conclusion from that that ABS is at fault? The DRIVER is at fault. From their logic I could say the same thing about everyone around here that buys a new 4x4 and drives like a idiot the first snow day because they can really get going well with their new 4 wheel drive. Well, those same loons also get in a lot more accidents because of their newfound confidence. So is 4 wheel drive to blame?

Next quote:

"In their tests, jerking the wheel (as if trying to steer around an obstacle) in a 35 mph panic stop sent ABS-equipped cars careening across two lane widths. (Without the ABS, the car skidded in a straight line.) This behavior may account for the higher roll-over rates for ABS-equipped vehicles. Other research revealed that many drivers don’t use ABS properly; they pump the pedal as they would regular brakes."

So in a panic stop when they jerked the wheel and the car CAREENED across two lanes, yet they praise the non-ABS car skidding to a stop. But they fail to mention that they avoided the obstacle. That's the purpose of ABS. And in the last comment about pumping the brakes, they again fault ABS for the driver not using it correctly.

I really don't get where you're going comparing the Jag in the 5th gear video to track cars. The video just simply shows how ABS, TCS, and VSC work, that's it. There's no bias to say that a better driver would climb the icy hill with TCS any different than a novice.

On kind of a tangent but similar topic, I would like to know how Ford was able to get the feature of turning airbags, ABS, and other features off in the new Raptor passed the lawyers. I can already see the first lawsuit of someone rolling their Raptor and dying because they had the airbags turned off and it's Ford's fault because they gave them the option.

 

[1loudLX]

That adjustable ABS Programming in the new Raptor is schaweet! If only that thing was built by Toyota I'd have one already. Come on Toyota, DO ONE WITH THE TUNDRA!

 

[Topoguide]

I would love to have an ABS program like the Raptor from what I have heard of it. Although it does not turn off, it allows the wheels to lock at a higher speed for off road situations... since anti-lock brakes have a design flaw in that the vehicle would never actually stop using just the brakes if they were true "anti-lock", at some point they have to allow the brakes to lock... and a higher speed would be nice off road. Although I have not seen anything indicating that the airbags can be turned off, that would be illegal as far as I am aware... although the TCS can be turned off from what I have read.

Trunk, as for the article being poorly written vs opposing your opinion/view point... being opposite of your opinion and quoting studies with an outcome opposing studies that support your opinion does not make a poorly written article. It is an opposing point of view which is why I linked to it; it was the least I could do after that commercial for ABS/TCS by Fifth Gear. My point about the Fifth Gear video is they were not trying to control the car from going into a skid, which is why I concede that for the vast majority of drivers it is probably a good thing. But this thread is a bunch of people who put there trucks into situations that most drivers don't, and are discussing being able to turn off the TCS only. So let's not go any further down the road of pro vs con of "safety" control modules and systems, let's get back to the original question... or better yet how do we install the Raptor ABS programing into our Cruisers???

 

[Trunk Monkey]

The quote about the taxis has nothing to do with my opinion, it just shows a serious flaw in the article and a ludicrous jump in logic. Car equipped with ABS = drivers taking more risks driving = ABS bad?

 

[Alaskan_IB]

I think were getting close to figuring out how to wire in a switch for the VSC looking through some posts. Has anyone gotten any closer to actually trying this? I am completely electricly inept.

 

[BROKEROB1]

I want to try to get the VSC switch from the early 2000's GS and see if this will work. I just have not had the time. Along with the HID conversion, it is at the top of the list.

I think were getting close to figuring out how to wire in a switch for the VSC looking through some posts. Has anyone gotten any closer to actually trying this? I am completely electricly inept.

 

[cmfhsu]

Psh you don't need to be able to see at night! VSC disable is clearly more important

 

[FOPLawyer]

the vehicle never adds throttle, just sayin.

Maybe mine is "Special".

 

[e9999]

snip


since anti-lock brakes have a design flaw in that the vehicle would never actually stop using just the brakes if they were true "anti-lock", at some point they have to allow the brakes to lock...


snip

??
are you talking about the last micromillimeter of motion? cuz if not, I'm stopping my vehicle all the time without locking the brakes...