Is there any reason I cannot use tie rod ends on the relay rod aka Center Link? I am getting tired of replacing these spring loaded joints that seem to wear out very quickly.
Frank
Frank
Use tie rod ends on the relay rod?
- Thread starter elripster
- Start date
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Silver City Cruiser
Bills Toy Shop
That is the shock protection for the steering box. How are you wearing them out? Are they set properly? is the truck lifted? Old Jeeps eat steering boxes because they don't have the spring loaded connection,Bill
- Thread starter
- #3
My truck does not eat steering boxes, it eats the spring loaded joints.
My truck is lifted mildly. I have an FJ80 steering box and Fj80's, along with well, just about every other vehicle in existence that uses a steering box, do not have or require these pesky spring loaded joints. I would really like to get rid of them forever hence my wondering if I can replace them with the tie rod ends that use the typical ball joint style of joint.
Frank
My truck is lifted mildly. I have an FJ80 steering box and Fj80's, along with well, just about every other vehicle in existence that uses a steering box, do not have or require these pesky spring loaded joints. I would really like to get rid of them forever hence my wondering if I can replace them with the tie rod ends that use the typical ball joint style of joint.
Frank
Using tie rod ends would be masking a possible problem. How have you been adjusting the relay rod ends?
IF NECESSARY, REPLACE RELAY ROD END
la} Loosen the relay rod end clamp and remove the relay
rod end.
Ib) Remove the cotter pin.
(cl Using a screwdriver, remove the plug, two ball stud
seats, link joint knob, spring and spring seat.
(d) Apply molybdenum disulphide lithium base grease to
the joint parts.
(e) Install the spring seat, spring, link joint knob and two
ball stud seats.
(f) Tighten the plug completely.
(9) loosen the plug 1 - 1 1/3 turns and install a new
cotter pm.
That is as per the manual, I personally use 3/4 -1 turn. Min last for an easy 100k klms (or roughly 62,000 miles)
IF NECESSARY, REPLACE RELAY ROD END
la} Loosen the relay rod end clamp and remove the relay
rod end.
Ib) Remove the cotter pin.
(cl Using a screwdriver, remove the plug, two ball stud
seats, link joint knob, spring and spring seat.
(d) Apply molybdenum disulphide lithium base grease to
the joint parts.
(e) Install the spring seat, spring, link joint knob and two
ball stud seats.
(f) Tighten the plug completely.
(9) loosen the plug 1 - 1 1/3 turns and install a new
cotter pm.
That is as per the manual, I personally use 3/4 -1 turn. Min last for an easy 100k klms (or roughly 62,000 miles)
- Thread starter
- #5
I don't think there is anything to mask here. These are just a bad idea that is not working out with larger tires, lift, and trail use with lots of cargo. This area of the steering is not a place where one wants to introduce slop or play, yet that is exactly what these do. If these spring joints were such a great thing they would be widely used but are not. Even FJ40 kits come with the ball style as to FJ80's and minitruck ends.
Let's change the direction of this thread back to how to get rid of them. I can always order more.... and more... rinse... repeat.
One thing that is likely accelerating wear is that with 2-3" of lift the relay rod is at an angle which rocks the tie rod up/down when pushing/pulling to turn the wheels. A more durable joint will tolerate this better. Eliminating this phenomenon I suppose could be done with a dropped Pitman arm or slightly raised steering arms.
As far as eliminating these joints using tie rod ends, it sounds like the thread pitch into the relay rod is Ok but the taper is different?
Frank
Let's change the direction of this thread back to how to get rid of them. I can always order more.... and more... rinse... repeat.
One thing that is likely accelerating wear is that with 2-3" of lift the relay rod is at an angle which rocks the tie rod up/down when pushing/pulling to turn the wheels. A more durable joint will tolerate this better. Eliminating this phenomenon I suppose could be done with a dropped Pitman arm or slightly raised steering arms.
As far as eliminating these joints using tie rod ends, it sounds like the thread pitch into the relay rod is Ok but the taper is different?
Frank
No you can't, the tre are a different size diameter and thread compared to the relay rod ends. Also the tre's don't have much flex to them.
- Thread starter
- #7
Just found a thread on this that I started... Easiest path to replace fj60 drag link (relay rod) ends with fj80 ends?
Well that is how long a set of these lasted on my truck which is about how long the set before them lasted.
Maybe it is time to go GM 1 ton but it just seems like somewhere in this giant world is a truck with compatible ends... question is how to find them?
Frank
Well that is how long a set of these lasted on my truck which is about how long the set before them lasted.
Maybe it is time to go GM 1 ton but it just seems like somewhere in this giant world is a truck with compatible ends... question is how to find them?
Frank
Str8Razor
SILVER Star
Following.......
I am getting tired of replacing these spring loaded joints that seem to wear out very quickly.
Can you show a pix of a worn-out one? Mine have 250K and I carefully inspected them and see no undue wear. Are yours 'falling apart' worn out?
Can you show a pix of a worn-out one? Mine have 250K and I carefully inspected them and see no undue wear. Are yours 'falling apart' worn out?
- Thread starter
- #10
They sound like the internal pieces are broken. They groan, crack, and bang even after greasing. When I have someone steer side to side both joints flex quite a bit. I just rebuilt the knuckles and replaced the outer tie rod ends only to find the relay rod ends, which are quite new, are bad. I could take a picture but externally they look the same as any other. I really have no desire to analyze the relay rod ends much at all, I wish to do away with them forever.
It sounds like I need to pave the way here. Can anyone think of a reason I cannot use an FJ80 Pitman arm? I think it drops a bit farther but that could help things here with the lift and would take care of one end. If I do that than I believe I just need to get a bushing to resize that tie rod hole?
Frank
It sounds like I need to pave the way here. Can anyone think of a reason I cannot use an FJ80 Pitman arm? I think it drops a bit farther but that could help things here with the lift and would take care of one end. If I do that than I believe I just need to get a bushing to resize that tie rod hole?
Frank
Str8Razor
SILVER Star
Is there a difference in ration between the 60 and the 80 box? One of my complaints about my truck is how slow it is to turn, and I think it was designed this way as self preservation if you will...I am not happy with the steering or the whole front geometry of my set up, I have old man emu 2.5" with longer shackles and it could be so much better....
- Thread starter
- #12
The turning ratio feels the same. In fact it feels the same as my 1st and 2nd gen 4runners. All of them require many more turns of the wheel than did my old I-beam Ranger. I don't think it is for strength, that is tied to the gears, bearings, etc... It is probably something Toyota just did on their tractors and kept repeating in other applications.
The 80 box is larger and I would assume stronger since the 80 is a heavier truck. I also have an 80 series PS pump which seemed to improve the PS when I did the engine conversion (with the old gear box installed) suggesting it produces more pressure. It could be the 80 pump and box are putting too much strain on the 60 spring loaded joints. If so, all the more reason to upgrade the joints.
Frank
The 80 box is larger and I would assume stronger since the 80 is a heavier truck. I also have an 80 series PS pump which seemed to improve the PS when I did the engine conversion (with the old gear box installed) suggesting it produces more pressure. It could be the 80 pump and box are putting too much strain on the 60 spring loaded joints. If so, all the more reason to upgrade the joints.
Frank
hj 60
JT1W0HJ6000960839
The adjustable ones seem to have a weakness when actually pressed in the gap becomes larger and they can pop out.
Mine fell off on a straight bumpy road and almost hit a tree because suddenly no steering.
Maybe these are 30 years old and they were bend so must have had a beating.
Just tried to take them apart but not possible due to rust, hammer & chisel
I have installed new ones but I think the replacement you made is safer than the original.
The manual is below and I think nobody does this maintenance but I learned it is the most urgent for the 60 model.
It is like the knuckles and nasty grease everywhere
Pictures, first the tree that hit the side mirror but no damage:
How I got home, used jack to slam it back in:
I was surprised (and stupid) to see there was no fresh grease in-there, lubed it regularly but the only way for maintenance is to take it apart.
So the grease zerc (check/replace) only reaches the rear spring, not the pivoting were it needs to be (I think)
A lot of sand and gunk was inside, please check if you have a 60:
Mine fell off on a straight bumpy road and almost hit a tree because suddenly no steering.
Maybe these are 30 years old and they were bend so must have had a beating.
Just tried to take them apart but not possible due to rust, hammer & chisel
I have installed new ones but I think the replacement you made is safer than the original.
The manual is below and I think nobody does this maintenance but I learned it is the most urgent for the 60 model.
It is like the knuckles and nasty grease everywhere
Pictures, first the tree that hit the side mirror but no damage:
How I got home, used jack to slam it back in:
I was surprised (and stupid) to see there was no fresh grease in-there, lubed it regularly but the only way for maintenance is to take it apart.
So the grease zerc (check/replace) only reaches the rear spring, not the pivoting were it needs to be (I think)
A lot of sand and gunk was inside, please check if you have a 60:
Last edited:
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
You can use an 80 series Pittman arm, but realize it does not drop as much as the 60 Pittman. Infact, you will likely need to trim the sheet metal splash guard under the motor to get it to just barely clear that part of the frame.
I think with custom rods, you could switch to any ends you like. I currently run GM 1 ton ends on my FJ60 and it works well, but I'm also running custom tie rod and drag link tube from 4x4 Labs. I'm not sure the GM ends will last any longer though, but they are fairly inexpensive, strong, have zerk fittings and do a good job overall. I like the Moog parts as opposed to imported parts (which can be really cheap)
Pretty sure these are the part numbers I used:
For FJ60
Drag Link:
ES2026R
ES2027L
Tie rod
ES2233L
ES2234R
- Thread starter
- #15
I was looking at the 4x4 labs setup. I am sure they will last massively longer. I might go that route if I can't find a relatively painless replacement for the spring loaded joints.
Frank
Frank
There's nothing inherently wrong with the FJ60 relay rod joint design. Just the maintenance.
This thing hadn't seen grease some time in the past for decades.
It's unreasonable to expect it to work (at all) when it has been neglected to such a degree.
I recently took mine apart. Everything looked brand new and shiny. 29 years old.
This thing hadn't seen grease some time in the past for decades.
It's unreasonable to expect it to work (at all) when it has been neglected to such a degree.
I recently took mine apart. Everything looked brand new and shiny. 29 years old.
- Thread starter
- #17
Mine aren't even a year old and have been greased via zerk. I don't want to have to disassemble it to grease it. Honestly, I don't really want to argue the merits of this joint, I want to be rid of it. I am scouring tie rod suppliers to see if I can find a 21mmX1.5mm shank with the right taper.
Frank
Frank
- Thread starter
- #19
They are marketed as tie rod or drag link ends with the latter having more available angle.
Frank
Frank
