Update! 80-series front prop shaft into a Troopy... Yea or nay? (2 Viewers)

[PhillipJFrye]

So my 2003 HZJ78 Troopy is wearing out u-joints in the front prop shaft in the space of months. Vibration, joint failure, probably caused by the TerrainTamer suspension's lift (was supposedly 50mm but wound up looking higher).

A fellow with a lot of experience in LC's down here says the solution is to switch out my oem prop shaft with one from an 80 series LC. The theory is that the double cardan prop from the 80 will increase the flexibility of the system.

Anyone done this? Heard of it?

Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[clintnz]

No idea on the length but fairly sure the 80 & 70 series pinions match up.

The normal setup for a double cardan has the diff pinion pointing straight at the t-case pinion. The double cardan takes all the angle. So if your lift has the driveshaft looking more like that , that rather than the flanges at each end being parallel to suit a normal driveshaft, then a double cardan may be worth a try.

My setup is very modified with different diffs etc but initially I had a conventional front shaft, this was a bit vibey. The angles weren't perfect for either type of shaft but they were closer to suiting a double cardan & after this was installed it runs smoothly.

One thing to note about the double cardan is that they can be a bit higher maintenance than a normal shaft, not sure on the 80 version but often you need to take off one end to grease the central ball in the double UJ.

Cheers
Clint

 

[PhillipJFrye]

No idea on the length but fairly sure the 80 & 70 series pinions match up.

The normal setup for a double cardan has the diff pinion pointing straight at the t-case pinion. The double cardan takes all the angle. So if your lift has the driveshaft looking more like that , that rather than the flanges at each end being parallel to suit a normal driveshaft, then a double cardan may be worth a try.

My setup is very modified with different diffs etc but initially I had a conventional front shaft, this was a bit vibey. The angles weren't perfect for either type of shaft but they were closer to suiting a double cardan & after this was installed it runs smoothly.

One thing to note about the double cardan is that they can be a bit higher maintenance than a normal shaft, not sure on the 80 version but often you need to take off one end to grease the central ball in the double UJ.

Cheers
Clint

thanks clint, great info and insight.

i never wanted to get this complicated. the terrain tamer folks said i shouldn't have to change anything with only a 50mm lift, but maybe every 19 year old troopy is a little different.

 

[Rigster]

So my 2003 HZJ78 Troopy is wearing out u-joints in the front prop shaft in the space of months. Vibration, joint failure, probably caused by the TerrainTamer suspension's lift (was supposedly 50mm but wound up looking higher).

A fellow with a lot of experience in LC's down here says the solution is to switch out my oem prop shaft with one from an 80 series LC. The theory is that the double cardan prop from the 80 will increase the flexibility of the system.

Anyone done this? Heard of it?

Any advice is much appreciated.

A 2" lift should not be causing this much grief... though you do indicate that the lift may have been more.

Did you put new radius arms in to correct the castor? That may be all you need to do. I put in a 4" lift in my Land Cruiser and replaced my radius arms for a 4" lift to correct the castor and I have not had any issues. It has been over a year now. A good set of radius arms are not cheap though, it may be cheaper to go with the double cardan option.

 

[AirheadNut]

It would be worth checking your castor angle, with a 50mm lift it should be correctable with castor correction bushings. Do you have locking hubs or drive flanges in the front?

 

[OGBeno]

80 series never had OEM double carden for any market.

 

[PhillipJFrye]

A 2" lift should not be causing this much grief... though you do indicate that the lift may have been more.

Did you put new radius arms in to correct the castor? That may be all you need to do. I put in a 4" lift in my Land Cruiser and replaced my radius arms for a 4" lift to correct the castor and I have not had any issues. It has been over a year now. A good set of radius arms are not cheap though, it may be cheaper to go with the double cardan option.

i'll definitely look into this aspect. thanks so much for the input.

 

[PhillipJFrye]

It would be worth checking your castor angle, with a 50mm lift it should be correctable with castor correction bushings. Do you have locking hubs or drive flanges in the front?

manual locking hubs. i'll talk to my mechanic buddy about this castor angle issue. thanks!

 

[JuanJ]

80 series never had OEM double carden for any market.

Hello,

Does this include models assembled in Venezuela?

I remember reading Venezuelan 80 Series had locally-made made shafts. Maybe those shafts had double cardans. I may be wrong, though.





Juan

 

[OGBeno]

No 80 Series Land Cruisers ever had double carden drive shafts, front or rear, globally. Regardless of whether they were Japan manufacture or CKD as in VZA.

 

[PhillipJFrye]

No 80 Series Land Cruisers ever had double carden drive shafts, front or rear, globally. Regardless of whether they were Japan manufacture or CKD as in VZA.

shoot. now i don't know what to think. thanks, OG, i will look into this supposedly dc prop shaft in more detail.

 

[Broski]

Just have a double carden shaft made, that’s what the 80 series guys do

 

[OGBeno]

Just have a double carder shaft made, that’s what the 80 series guys do

Ok. That’s great. Thanks.

But an HZJ78 is a radically different vehicle than an 80 series.

80 series answers don’t necessarily work correctly with the 7x series platform.

 

[Broski]

But an HZJ78 is a radically different vehicle than an 80 series.

80 series answers don’t necessarily work correctly with the 7x series platform.

Yes I get that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, people have been using double carden U-joints for decades on many makes and models to alleviate drive shaft vibrations in lifted 4x4s. It's not a 80 series answers it's a lifted 4x4 answer.

I see no reason why one could not be built for a lifted HZJ78.

While radically different the HZJ78 does utilize the same style control arms and coil spring suspension as the 80 series. so it stands to reason that when lifted it could benefit from the double carden also known as a CV

I not trying to argue with the O'Mighty One, just trying to help the OP.


Cheers, carry on

 

[PhillipJFrye]

Update!

So we got a double cardan prop shaft from a mechanic in the Darien region of Panama (yes, the no-man's land where colombian guerrillas and indigenous peoples make life interesting). If only that prop could talk...

Cut the dc end of that shaft and welded it onto my troopy shaft and made an adapter flange, giving birth to "Frankenshaft." New greased up u-joints, balanced, looked good.

Successful install, road test...still vibrating. Gosh. Shucks. F***!!!

Two lessons learned so far:
-whatever terrain tamer tells you the lift will be with your new suspension, it shall be higher. maybe if you've added a s*** ton of camping gear it winds up being 50mm, but not in my case.
-there are folks like tom wood's that can make you a brand new, better than oem prop shaft for the same amount of money that i just spent. boy, wish i knew that a month ago.

So it's been a giant forehead so far, but on the upside i've learned a lot about how transfers and drive shafts and diffs work. I'll think of it as the fee for my master class in this stuff.

As for the vibrations, and if a new prop will cure it, who know. The future is an adventure.

I've read that correcting the caster absolutely can fix vibrations, and i've read that caster has nothing to do with vibrations. New radius arms? Rabbit hole from hell? Any suggestions are welcome, just don't make fun, I already feel ridiculous.

cheers.

 

[Broski]

Caster his nothing to do with the Vibrations.
Have you run it with out the front drive shaft to determine that it is in deed the front shaft Causing the vibration.
My guess is that the shaft you had made is out of balance

 

[cruisermatt]

That driveshaft in your picture is out of phase

Caster has nothing to do vibration

 

[TonyP]

That driveshaft in your picture is out of phase

Caster has nothing to do vibration

This.
If that's how it was removed, it's not in phase.

Try driving it without the shaft, first.

 

[Broski]

Caster his nothing to do with the Vibrations.
Have you run it with out the front drive shaft to determine that it is in deed the front shaft Causing the vibration.
My guess is that the shaft you had made is out of balance

 

[PhillipJFrye]

i've run her without the prop and/or with the hubs unlocked, smooth as silk. it's the prop giving me problems. now, rookie question of the day...

what does the driveshaft "out of phase" mean?