Union Joint rear heater riser pipe thing ???? Removal & leaking

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Off his comment... sometimes it takes trying stuff on our own to figure out being stubborn might get you there but it takes a f ton more time to do it. Doing it the right way is so much less aggravating and there’s less potential to screw more stuff up along the way.
Step back and really think this through.

 

[4runner2FJ60]

Before you go crazy on it, you're positive it was that actual joint leaking and not something nearby, like the hose itself or something? My pipe was in there so tight that I just can't imagine one leaking unless it's been messed with recently.

Damn, i am not 100%, but it looked all wet around the base and the wetness runs toward the firewall and down. I thought it was my rear main by the time it hits the ground and puddles, it looked like clear oily coolant. It didn't look like that top hose was leaking. I will look at the hose again. The top of the vertical piece is corroded like it might have been leaking?
It sure seems tight, but i don't have the right tool. It is a 22mm for the vertical shaft and a 17 for the horizontal. The 12mm on the vacuum port worked like a charm, it came right out, then i unscrewed the horizontal just fine. It has significantly more space now, but not enough for anything big. I'm gonna stop for the night, I might have bent the fixed nut at the horizontal connection trying to turn it with crescent wrench attached there.
Time to get the popcorn emoji out.

 

[DFXR]

I’d get a real 21mm wrench and figure out a cheater that will fit around the other end. I used the end of a floor jack handle.

 

[sims]

Just did this job recently. I used a crows foot, long extension and a breaker bar. It was pretty tight but the right tool for the job won this battle.
Sims

 

[Gretsch]

^^^
I don’t think the manifold needs to come off. And I too may be wrong. Here’s what I ‘think’ you can do:

1) loosen the tall vertical pipe 1/2 turn or so
2) then you can take off the horizontal pipe w/o it hitting anything
3) then you can unscrew the tall vertical pipe all the way

A bit hard to describe. And yes to the Permatex.

I’d get a real 21mm wrench and figure out a cheater that will fit around the other end. I used the end of a floor jack handle.

Its been awhile since I did this on mine, but I had the whole thing out and de-scaled and refurbished it as described above. It was tight in there but I don't recall needing anything other than a wrench on the upper part of the vertical bit. I removed the vacuum hose and with the wrench on the top portion of the hex molding on the fitting, was able to just break it free. I think the wrench cleared the top of the vacuum fitting with the hose off but can't be sure of that. I didn't have any special flex tools for this (and still don't) so I know it was not anything complicated. I still don't have a 21mm wrench so I must have used a crescent for this and most likely used a cheater bar. Prolly the jack handle mentioned above. With the vacuum fitting out of the way seems you are home free. On mine if the vacuum fitting was out of there, there would be room to get at the vertical fitting with a wrench. GL and HTH.

Edit: Just noticed the air rail in place. One thing about mine was my air rail is out of the truck (desmogged), so most likely afforded me additional access.

 

[OSS]

There are freeze plugs on top of the head that can leak (one of mine did). Make sure it's not one of those. Don't let the leak continue. It'll rust up the top of the head real good and turn the air injection nozzles into fossils.

 

[lcolon]

I would pull the air rail. Should only take a few minutes to do so if the connections are not frozen on... put some kroil or PB Blaster before you start. At least it will be out of the way and not be damaged in the process

Removing the valve cover will also give you some more room with which to work... also something that takes a few minutes

Your air cleaner still looks like it is on... I would also get that out of the way

 

[4runner2FJ60]

Thanks all.....I am thinking the crows foot wrench method will work for me, but i need to get the actual wrench in that size. I measured 22mm with my caliper last night, so i am not certain if the 21mm is correct here. @Gretsch Do you still have your air rail in place? The hex part of the vertical pipe is just at or below air rail. I cannot fit any standard straight wrench in there at all. The crescent i had on it was on a slight angle and i bent the horizontal connector with it. I am starting to wonder if i should bite the bullet and do a head gasket job. This is way beyond anything i have ever done engine wise, but right now, my radiator is out of the truck along with the water pump, thermostat, most of the coolant hoses i am replacing. I have no clue the history on my cruiser so don't know when the head gasket was changed???? I have 230k miles currently.
I'll try to check the freeze plugs tonight.
@sims Was your crows foot a standard open end wrench or a flare style one? Not sure the flare one will slide down all the way but might grip better?

 

[Gretsch]

@Gretsch Do you still have your air rail in place? The hex part of the vertical pipe is just at or below air rail.

Yes sorry here, I just now noticed your air rail is in place. Mine is gone from the PO desmog so it most likely afforded me additional access at the time that you don't have now which explains why I didn't see this as all that difficult at the time. So screw me. I am not sure how hard that air rail is to get out but access would be improved if it were removed. Looking at your pics though it seems like with the vacuum port removed you could get a wrench in there to get on it under the air rail but I am not sure of that. Hard to see in the pics. I think before I tried removing the air rail I would look at other options. I am a big fan of pulling stuff to get it out of the way but maybe the air rail is a challenge. That area is tight I do remember that.

 

[lcolon]

Without the air rail , you may be able to get the closed end of a combo wrench over the end of the pipe and use that to get it off...

 

[DFXR]

My two cents. I don't think you have to do the head gasket, and I say this as someone who is in the middle of doing his head gasket. You can definitely pull a lot of stuff off the head - temp sender, air rail, etc - to make this easier. The carb could come off too and that is pretty easy as long as you label all of your vac lines. Four 12mm nuts that will be very accessible after the valve cover is off.

But you will reach a point BEFORE the head is actually off, where you will have pretty great access to that union. And because of the torque involved, it's kind of easier to have the head still bolted onto the block when you're breaking the union free.

But unless you've got a leaky head gasket, or unless you are just feeling crazy, I would not turn this into an HG job. Because that is more than just throwing a new gasket on.

 

[lcolon]

My two cents. I don't think you have to do the head gasket, and I say this as someone who is in the middle of doing his head gasket. You can definitely pull a lot of stuff off the head - temp sender, air rail, etc - to make this easier. The carb could come off too and that is pretty easy as long as you label all of your vac lines. Four 12mm nuts that will be very accessible after the valve cover is off.

But you will reach a point BEFORE the head is actually off, where you will have pretty great access to that union. And because of the torque involved, it's kind of easier to have the head still bolted onto the block when you're breaking the union free.

But unless you've got a leaky head gasket, or unless you are just feeling crazy, I would not turn this into an HG job. Because that is more than just throwing a new gasket on.

I completely agree with this - if you have no reason to pull the head off don't do it. It is ALOT more work and $$$ - head job ~$750+, cutting the manifolds to ensure they are flat, all the gaskets, coolant, and the aggravation of having to do that job.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

$750 is a high suggestion. But yeah I agree w/ all them too.

 

[John McVicker]

You are almost there, the rest is easy. DO NOT remove the head to accomplish your task.

1) get the proper size wrench... 21, 22, whatever it is.
2) remove the air rail. Not a big deal.
3) maybe remove the valve cover. Not a big deal.
You can have this job successfully completed in less than 1 hour. Get after it.

 

[Gretsch]

So with the vacuum port out of the way, doesn't this work? This is a flare nut but you can get just a normal open end flex head wrench to get at it. Would it still not allow you to get under the air rail? Put a pipe on the end of it and go to town. What am I missing?

 

[4runner2FJ60]

So with the vacuum port out of the way, doesn't this work? This is a flare nut but you can get just a normal open end flex head wrench to get at it. Would it still not allow you to get under the air rail? Put a pipe on the end of it and go to town. What am I missing?

View attachment 2436053View attachment 2436054

Well for starters you don't have an air rail blocking it.

And the 22mm I finally found after 3 different stores worked! I just got it off after work today. I also removed the air cleaner. I broke it loose from the carb side, then was able to get at it better from the head cover side.
It is nice to get that thing removed but now i am unsure how to fix the horizontal outlet part that i bent with my crescent wrench. Why do things always get messed up when i use a crescent.....Not sure how to re-round that piece? I am pretty sure about the leak source at this point. There was no sealant of any type on that vertical pipe. There is something at #1 looking like it is oil leaking around the air rail injector?
@OSS Are the freeze plugs the nickle size holes on the top of the head that are plugged? No signs of wetness on those, but not sure how many there are and if i can see them all back there in the hook area. Also I need to search, but the ends of these pipes are pretty corroded.

 

[John McVicker]

Good job on getting that out. And no on the size of the freeze plugs. They are a bit larger than a silver dollar.
11431A in this image.


EDIT: and even it that pipe wasn’t leaking, I would still use the suggested Permatex Sealant in this application. This is an application where this stuff works. Use the sealant on the threads...both vertical and horizontal.

 

[4runner2FJ60]

@John McVicker Great thanks. I thought @OSS was referring to freeze plugs on the top of the head? The leak that this heater union pipe (i still don't know the correct name for it) was big enough that once parked it would leave about a 6" puddle under the front side of the bell housing. I thought it was transmission at first but it was a very oily color and too clear! It ran from this pipe on top of the head toward the firewall and down.

 

[John McVicker]

The part that you removed is a coolant hose that goes to your in cab heater. There should be absolutely no oil in there.

If you can, try to give a better description of where you think you have your oily leak. A picture pointing to where you see the leak would help.

 

[4runner2FJ60]

This might just be slated as nothing to worry about? So small, and i cannot tell if its the air rail connection or that head bolt leaking? Should either leak?
Any ideas on fixing that bent threaded connection? Maybe find a tap that size? Thanks again....