Turn OEM rotors!!!

[wb1948]

Just wanted to share my experience with you guys in hope of saving you time/money. When I first rebuilt my front axle and replaced the rotors with new Toyota OEM rotors (and 100 series pads) from Dan I did not turn the rotors and experienced no improved braking. In fact it was worse, and continued to get worse. After a few thousand miles when I realized driving my car was not safe I began to investigate(full brake from 5 miles per hour took over 10 feet, from 60 it proabably took aver 250 feet atleast). I noticed that I had an abnormal pattern on my rotors. Rather than being uniform like on most cars it was splotchy. I went and had the rotors turned and the breaking is 10x better. I can now break and get a tad bit of squeel.

So in short, turn your OEM rotors before they are installed!

One more tip, do not use a puddy gasket for your diffs. When I went to 4.88s I forgot to order new gaskets so I used a puddy gasket. About 2000 miles later it began to decay from exposure to the 4x4 environment and I began to leak fluid from my diff. Needless to say I am now ripping my knuckles apart one more time to replace the puddy gaskets with OEM gaskets.

 

[turbocruiser]

Ahhh, methinks somethings wrong; no new rotor should really require turning. Are you sure your calipers were not sticking or seizing while warping that new rotor? Something sounds wrong here.

 

[Romer]

Did you break them in properly?

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Guess I'll add it to the FAQ

 

[CruiserLegolas]

I put new front OEM rotors and 100-series pads and I have no issues. The new rotors did not need to be turned. I have over 20k miles on them.

 

[flintknapper]

Absolutely no problems with my new rotors and 100 series pads. Its a good idea to "bed" them properly though. Make certain they are clean after the installation.

 

[cruiserdan]

It is not necessary to turn new OEM rotors. I wonder if you have another issue. Did you clean the friction surface of the anti-rust coating before you installed the rotors?

 

[turbocruiser]

Did you break them in properly?

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Guess I'll add it to the FAQ

Holy Moly! That link's instructions seem super aggressive, especially for cruisers. I thought that proper bedding was a much more gentle process ... slowly bringing the rotors up to temp by going from say 30 to 15 very slowly both in decelerating and accelerating back up to 30 several times, then taking several short stops from like 30 to almost zero, and then driving on for five minutes with no brakes and then perhaps another 30 to almost zero and driving on. I thought the idea was to coax the rotors to warm up just enough so as to deposit just a slight smooth amount of pad material into the rotor metal? I think if we were to repeat the links instructions with a 6000 lb vehicle, we might warp things. JMPO - Just My Paranoid Opinion!

 

[Romer]

Your right. Here is a more appropriate version. I'll put the link in the FAQ and post the text here

To ensure maximum performance and customer satisfaction, new brake pads must be bedded in upon installation. Correct bedding guarantees that new brake pads and new rotors work flawlessly together. In order to function optimally, organic brake pads must develop friction coal on its surface. This friction coal develops at a temperature of approximately 280°C (537°F). It is very important that this temperature is reached continuously and slowly. This gradual process generates temperatures that not only penetrate the surface of the brake discs and pads, but also distribute evenly through the whole disc and pad material. This is essential when using new brake discs, since the disc often shows signs of stress (due to the casting process and fast cooling) in the materials. A steady and careful warming and cooling process guarantees a good release of both materials.



<B><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#0000ff size=4><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">The bedding in/break in procedure should be done as follows:

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Turning a new set of rotors just cost you 50,000 miles of normal wear. I don't see how this is saving money. It sounds like they were not cleaned properly after install. Even a small amount of grease will decrease braking for a long time.

 

[Romer]

I don't know if this is the case, but driving style can contribute to Rotor life. For example, using the brakes down hill for a bit to slow down really heats up the rotors. Think about the process of braking, friction between the pads and rotors which equals heat. Say you slow down after riding the brakes for a bit and the brake rotors are real hot and then sitting at a stop sign you have the brake pedal pushed in hard, you will be pushing the pads against hot metal deforming them and causing a surface problem like you described. Notice next time you are at a stop light how hard your press the brake pedal.
When going down inclines, do you ride the brakes or let the engine do the braking? Riding the brakes due to the excessive heat build up can also contribute to fast rotor wear.

 

[turbocruiser]

I don't know if this is the case, but driving style can contribute to Rotor life. For example, using the brakes down hill for a bit to slow down really heats up the rotors. Think about the process of braking, friction between the pads and rotors which equals heat. Say you slow down after riding the brakes for a bit and the brake rotors are real hot and then sitting at a stop sign you have the brake pedal pushed in hard, you will be pushing the pads against hot metal deforming them and causing a surface problem like you described. Notice next time you are at a stop light how hard your press the brake pedal.
When going down inclines, do you ride the brakes or let the engine do the braking? Riding the brakes due to the excessive heat build up can also contribute to fast rotor wear.

Agreed...when going driving down declines you should use your engine and transmission together as much as possible to maintain a safe speed. Around here on the longest and steepest declines they actually have stop stations where forest service officials stop vehicles and test them for too much heat within the brake system. If you are riding your brakes at all they will make you wait for however long it takes to get the rotors to cool. Meanwhile they are lecturing you on how to drive down mountains! I have practiced it over and over and with the exception of softly squeezing the brakes for a few seconds to lower the revs and shift to a lower gear I can drive down almost any incline around here without really relying on the brakes much at all. I cringe when I'm behind a big vehicle that is constantly driving down declines with the brakes on ... sometimes I even smell smoke off of their brakes!

 

[wb1948]

I used a very strong brake cleaner after I installed the rotors. My calipers are in good working condition and compress uniformly. I checked every component of the braking system before venturing to have my rotors turned. Turning them solved the problem, so it was obviously necesary in my case. Both rotors had the same abnormal wear pattern, so I figured they were both a bit warped from the factory. Apparently this is not common, and it is either an anomaly or I am just a poor mechanic

As someone pointed out, it does take life off the calibers but I used a very good machine shop and specifically asked they take off as little as possible. I doubt it took off "50,000" miles of life, but who knows. I had two different shops work on my brakes while other work was being done and the improvement was marginal. This obviously cost me money, and I am simply trying to offer my experience with the forum.

 

[NorCalDoug]

I've never had a single problem with new OEM rotors and new OEM pads.
Sounds like something else is going on.

 

[Newps]

"I used a very strong brake cleaner after I installed the rotors."

I believe this was part of your problem. When I installed new brakes and rotors, I was instructed to clean both sides if the rotors with brake clearer and a rag. This was done with quite a bit of force to ensure removal of the coating the manufacture applies to the rotors. This coating is there to protect the rotors from rust. If you just sprayed down the rotor with cleaner after installation you barely removed this coating from just one side of each of the four rotors. This is mostly likely why after you had them turned they worked 10x better. I am no brake expert but this logic makes sense to me. You can always tell me to go myself and I will not be offended,

Tare

 

[Cattledog]

I know this is an old thread, But I am having the same issues as wb1948.

I have new 100 series pads and new OEM rotors. I cleaned the rotors both sides with hexane and tetrachloroethylene (CRC brand brake cleaner, Not sold in Cali...) I have bed the rotors as the forum instructions and the braking sucks.
No I don't have a stuck caliper, Both sides are warming up evenly. I will verify this on tues. with an IR temp guage. The wear patten is looking normal for new brakes. I have done many a brake job in the past all without issue.

Weird, but if I really get on the brakes hard a couple of times the braking improves. After about 2 hard stops 45 to 0 the abs will kick in at the last 20 feet. Otherwise the no abs/locking up of the brakes. The brakes remind me of track compound pads , almost like the pads/disc need to warm up to operate correctly.

Any suggestions?

Thanks