Turbo engine rebuild (New Title) (1 Viewer)

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"leaner air" actually would give a rich condition, correct.

I had a discussion many years ago with a guy who built motors and this discussion came up and he tried to explain to me why it was usually the #1 piston that takes the hit. At that time I couldn't grasp what he was explaining.
 
Photoman said:
Blah blah > In the hot weather now there is less oxygen atoms per unit of air equals leaner air. < blah blah
Click to expand...

landtank said:
"leaner air" actually would give a rich condition, correct.
Click to expand...

This is just internet information and should be taken with the usual caution.

From the link -

snip >In hot weather when the air is warmer the amount of oxygen atoms in a given volume of air will be less that in cold air. This leans out the air/fuel mix. Once again, higher-octane fuel in the summer is good insurance. Similarly, in lower altitudes the air is denser and the stoichiometry (ratio of fuel to air) moves to lean so a higher octane fuel may be beneficial to avoid pinging. So if you have advanced the timing and go for a mid summer drive down to the beach you might like to take on a tank of 98 RON.
> /snip

clownmidget, I am very sorry to hear about your situation. Hopefully you can get it resolved and move on.

Bill
 
Photoman said:
This is just internet information and should be taken with the usual caution.

From the link -

snip >In hot weather when the air is warmer the amount of oxygen atoms in a given volume of air will be less that in cold air. This leans out the air/fuel mix. Once again, higher-octane fuel in the summer is good insurance. Similarly, in lower altitudes the air is denser and the stoichiometry (ratio of fuel to air) moves to lean so a higher octane fuel may be beneficial to avoid pinging. So if you have advanced the timing and go for a mid summer drive down to the beach you might like to take on a tank of 98 RON.
> /snip

clownmidget, I am very sorry to hear about your situation. Hopefully you can get it resolved and move on.

Bill
Click to expand...

they're playing with the terminology. The first is "air/fuel" and the second is "fuel/air". Both the hot thin air and cold denser air examples are stated as being a lean condition.


My understanding is that since we are metering the fuel in a petrol engine, the terms lean and rich relate to the amount of fuel and how well it's being metered.

typically a good AFR for economy is 14.7/1

typically a good AFR for power is 12.3/1, slightly richer

And from what I've read a safe AFR to control EGTs and help with quenching is 10-10.5/1, even richer still.

Again most of this is from the web, mainly here.
 
Thanks Bill - and of course everyone else. Still waiting to see what the other end of this looks like.

Just to clarify some bits so folks can properly theorize :)

The turbo was installed ~20K miles ago when the previous owner had the truck. At ~175K miles the HG went. The owner had purchased a APS Safari system when another vendor used to sell them (not MAF). Had the top end work and turbo installed by Porsche shop with the UniChip tuned on 4-wheel dyno. The first UniChip died and a "upgraded" version (this according to what the previous owner was told by APS) was installed and tuned again. It had at least 6K miles on it since from him. I got the truck in Oct/09 and it sat parked more or less most of the time at Inverness's shop in LA since. Friday July 9th was the first time I actually saw the truck in person. Saturday AM battery was dead so we jump started it. Took several minutes of idling for ecu to "learn" or so we assumed as idle was erratic but eventually smoothed out and truck ran great. Drove it ~10 miles of city plus CA freeway to his shop. When I turned it off the battery still tested dead, so new Sears version of Odyssey was installed and it started and ran great. Drove it ~60 miles from LA to Rancho Cucamonga, again lots of freeway speeds, city stop and go, etc. no problems, truck ran great. Filled up with 91 octane and started driving to ABQ. CEL came on just outside Needles but with no change in engine behavior. Pulled over in Needles and checked everything over, pulled ECU fuse, topped off oil which was about 1 qt low and restarted. CEL was gone and everything seemed normal. Got to long climb on AZ side of CO river up to Kingman and CEL came on again, still no change in engine, the ~30 seconds later engine coolant temp gauge acted like it was grounded - needle just rose in super fast steady fashion to above the red mark. Engine ran very, very rough but still running. Turned it off and set all the heaters to high and checked under hood. Coolant venting from overflow tank. No coolant leaks anywhere else. Oil leaking from above rear of exhaust manifold.

Don't know if that helps anyone think about possible problems but it may be a while before the head of that engine gets pulled and/or that #1 injector gets sent out to be tested.

The Cruiser community has really been great and I truly appreciate it :cheers:
 
I can pull some codes this weekend. Mike--I think you left the keys in the rig at my house right?

The codes would still be stored I assume.
 
Sorry to hear that, I did that to my 50 trim PT, but I was running nearly 30 psi and my methanol injection relay died at full boost and that burnt my #3 piston clean through. If you were running anywhere near 12/1 AFR, you're gonna burn a piston is these things. The motors weren't built for forced induction. I'd be scared running 10psi @ 10/1 in these. If you want to keep the turbo, build the motor or better yet, just drop a 400HP V8 in there. Personally, I'd rather spend the time and money on a V8 swap than dork around with forced induction and have to worry about burning a piston 1/2 from nowhere AZ!
 
Some progress.....

...long day of wrenching with Ali and myself pulling out the 1FZ long block.

Not easy...made tougher with the turbo in place.

Now for disassembly and diagnosis starting tomorrow.
0801001828a.jpg
 
MountainBum said:
Sorry to hear that, I did that to my 50 trim PT, but I was running nearly 30 psi and my methanol injection relay died at full boost and that burnt my #3 piston clean through. If you were running anywhere near 12/1 AFR, you're gonna burn a piston is these things. The motors weren't built for forced induction. I'd be scared running 10psi @ 10/1 in these. If you want to keep the turbo, build the motor or better yet, just drop a 400HP V8 in there. Personally, I'd rather spend the time and money on a V8 swap than dork around with forced induction and have to worry about burning a piston 1/2 from nowhere AZ!
Click to expand...

Well you're entitled to your opinion ;) ...but for now there is no clear idea of what went wrong or why, so the jury is still out.

And these motors handle boost just fine if maintained properly. Please show me a 200K mile Cheby motor - a)that actually still runs without burning as much oil as petrol and b)that is honestly as dependable. I grew up on American V8's. Cheap, straigtforward power - no doubt. But long term reliability? Longevity beyond 100K miles of punishment? Please. Tear down the two and see the internals. My previous 80 (now in Costa Rica) has over 100K of being boosted, and over 225K total, on the same bottom end, HG replaced preventatively @ 175K miles.

To be honest, this was a rookie mistake on my end. I showed up, hopped in an unfamiliar truck that had been sitting for months, never really base-lined anything, nada, and started driving it across country. I know now I should have take a day or two and really gone through the coolant system, turbo system, etc. and been vigilent but I was pinched for time and cut corners. I should have, and do, know better and this is the result. But these guys and this forum has been immensely generous and helpful and absolutely the best :cheers: but their drinking expenditures account for 95% of the budget :rolleyes:
 
don't forget the "massage therapists" at the end of every day......
 
Again.... great work guys! Maybe we will be neighbors some day!
 
Ali will post pics but looks like a fair bit of the edge of #1 piston is missing in action! Scoring on the cylinder walls but not certain how deep/bad. Really looks like the piston took most of the damage from high heat.

Valves all look clean and nice, including #1

HG was pristine and completely intact

Injectors and connectors all looked normal, but are being sent out to RC Engineering

The other 5 cylinders all looked pristine too. Tops of all the pistons were very clean, no carbon deposits at all

Oil was blown completely through the entire intake except runner #5. Completely clear and clean the entire length.

Nothing obvious about the head or the surface of the block that indicates anything went wrong. Block will be torn down hopefully by Thurs and into a shop.

So right now I'm still puzzled about what exactly happened. Seems like failure of #1 fuel injector is the most viable candidate but anyone have any other ideas that should be investigated to rule out this happening again?
100_5470.jpg
 
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clownmidget said:
Oil was blown completely through the entire intake except runner #5. Completely clear and clean the entire length.
Click to expand...

pressure test the oil section of the turbo. A gasket failure would allow oil to be pumped into the compressor side and fill up the intake track.

Also inspect the tubing out to the inter cooler and back for oil residue inside.

If the oil was coming from the center section then the inter cooler is likely full of it.
 
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