As long as you don't put two clutch plates back to back, it doesn't matter where you put the extra steel. It's just taking up the gap between the clutches and the piston/spring retainer.
A343F Transmission Rebuild Dilemma
- Thread starter Gerrha
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Two very long, very large screwdrivers
- Thread starter
- #23
The copy I have has AT147-01 on the top in miniscule print. I will have to look further.
- Thread starter
- #24
Yeah, that is where I finally arrived, but I had to step away twice for a break to get there.
Paper or PDF?
You want RM479U.
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- #26
It is a PDF that I got from this site as I remember. I do not see any reference for RM479U.
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- #27
I went through my PDFs and there is one listed as RM479U, but that PDF shows how to remove the transmission and how to diagnose codes and so on. At least that is what is in my PDF stored under the RM479U file name.
I am grateful that I have 2 spare A343F transmissions so I don't have to rebuild 1
That's the one I posted. I need to replace it with a copy that has the pub number on it. You are using the correct version.
- Thread starter
- #30
Just an update and another question. I solved my original problem with the clearance of the first & reverse brake pack. I took the entire thing apart again and then used the largest plate in the OEM list (5.4-mm) and it worked out fine. I am very happy with that outcome. But I have encountered another clearance issue and question.
There is another clearance measurement requirement between the sun gear input drum and the direct clutch drum. The FSM says this distance should be between 0.209" to 0.287". It also says to use a vernier caliper for the measurement, but I found that not a workable option, so I use a stack of various thickness feeler gauges, which ought to be at least as good as using a vernier. It is a simple measurement, and mine comes in at 0.190". I have taken this thing apart maybe 10 times now. I can now do it in my dreams, but no matter what I do, what I check, or what I measure, it always comes out at 0.190". When I did the original disassembly, I took a photo of this area as part of my documentation. I have attached this photo below along with the same area today. I am not seeing an additional 0.019"+ in that original photo. Has anyone else made this measurement and found it within the FSM specs?
There is another clearance measurement requirement between the sun gear input drum and the direct clutch drum. The FSM says this distance should be between 0.209" to 0.287". It also says to use a vernier caliper for the measurement, but I found that not a workable option, so I use a stack of various thickness feeler gauges, which ought to be at least as good as using a vernier. It is a simple measurement, and mine comes in at 0.190". I have taken this thing apart maybe 10 times now. I can now do it in my dreams, but no matter what I do, what I check, or what I measure, it always comes out at 0.190". When I did the original disassembly, I took a photo of this area as part of my documentation. I have attached this photo below along with the same area today. I am not seeing an additional 0.019"+ in that original photo. Has anyone else made this measurement and found it within the FSM specs?
I don’t have an answer to your question a year later, but I do have a question if you solved it.
I’m about to try and rebuild my transmission myself. Any tips or tricks, or any changes you wish you’d made?
Thanks
I don't know how I missed this.
The only way you could have missed this dimension is if you installed the bearing onto the Front Planetary Ring Gear sub–assy (Direct Clutch, Forward Clutch & Front Planetary Ring Gear) improperly. The bearing sets this dimension. The dimensions identifying the bearing are in Step 15 (a). Since the manual was written for both the A340 and the A343 transmission, make sure you read the A343 bearing dimension.
For anyone following along at home, this is the reverse of STEP 33, disassembly. This dimension should be verified before disassembly, although that is not in the manual. This is why you really should read the entire manual and familiarize yourself with the entire procedure, before attempting it the first time.
You should not try to cookbook your way through this and expect a good result.
As a matter of fact, every setup dimension in the assembly phase should be compared with the measurement of the same area/component during disassembly. This is a vital part of diagnosis. Unlike an engine rebuild, where pretty much every aspect of the assembly will be adjusted to complement every related aspect, a transmission is a collection of several colocated, but separate sub–assemblies, each with unique operating characteristics. This is what enables the builder to verify every separate gear section, prior to final assembly and installation.
FWIW, I use feeler gauges here, too.
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I can offer a couple of thoughts, that may help you.
» 1) Download the unit repair manual. And read it. And make notes.
» 2) Print the pages you will need for the operations you're doing. Do not take your manual into the workshop with you. ATF and paper do not mix well.
» 3) Make a chart, with the disassembly and assembly steps on it, and record everything you observe and all the measurements you make. As I said above, record all the assembly measurements PRIOR TO disassembly, so that you know what they were when you took the unit apart.
» 4) Lastly, use Toyota parts. If you buy an aftermarket "kit", you'll get parts for every transmission in the AW30-43LE series. None of them will be labeled and you will not know which parts you need. None of them will be OE quality, regardless of how they are advertised. If you rebuild a transmission with aftermarket parts and you get more than 5 years of service out of it, I'll be very surprised. OE parts last for 300,000 miles, at least. That's 25–30 years, for me.
You need a couple of transmission specific tools, and a couple of general use tools, which you may never use again. I'll post photos with links after this. Here's the list:
a) You need at least one (1) quart of kerosene, for cleaning. You can use brake clean, but it's far more expensive and doesn't clean any better.
b) Buy an aluminum pan, at least 2' x 4'. Nothing larger than 2 1/2' deep, because you can't reach any farther than than, but longer is OK.
– you'll use the pan for disassembling the case and the individual subassemblies. Do not use steel, and wood will just get covered in ATF which you won't be able to remove.
c) You will need some way to hold the transmission case, while you work on it. A dedicated holding fixture is the right tool, and one of the two (2) "special" tools you'll need.
– You will need to place the transmission upside down, horizontally, to remove the pan and valve body. You will also need to place the transmission vertically with the front up, to remove and install the internal components.
– You can use the pan for the horizontal disassembly and reassembly, and a plastic milk crate, upside down, will suffice for the vertical. You will need to create a hole in the center for the tail shaft, however you have to be able to reach the rear face for disassembly and reassembly.
d) I'd advise building, or buying, the second of two (2) "special" tools. You need some way to compress the spring sub–assemblies, in order to remove the snap rings and then to remove the pistons.
– There are many ways to do this, but you must have a special tool to do it. If you try to cheat, you'll ruin the spring assy and then you'll have to buy another.
– There are five (5) distinct spring assy's; replacing the four (4) that are still available will cost you over $100 wholesale. The 1st and Reverse spring assy isn't available and if you wreck that, you're screwed.
e) You need two (2) long flat screwdrivers, 1/4" or 3/8", at least 12" long. You'll use these to remove the snap rings in the lower (rear) end of the case.
f) You need at least one (1) and two (2) is better, long (at least 8") snap ring pliers; the kind with dimples on the ends are best.
g) There is a special 14–mm crow's foot wrench for the cooler loop union fittings on the case; Toyota buys them from KTC (this wrench is also needed for power steering gearbox work). A "standard" crow's foot will not work; it's too short. You may be able to use two (2) adjustable wrenches; I never have been able to make them work.
h) Lastly, you can use the pan as a wash tank. This accomplishes two things: One, you clean the pan really, really well, and Two, you don't need to buy a special, very clean tank to wash your parts in.
It goes without saying that you need to be organized. Lots of the parts you'll be working with look the same, and some even fit where they shouldn't.
When you disassemble the internals, do so while the case is vertical, front end up, and place every subassy you remove on your bench UPSIDE DOWN, the way you remove it. I work from left to right, removing the upper to lower subassy's, but any way you can keep everything separated and still organized is fine.
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Regarding parts:
You need to replace the torque converter when you rebuild the transmission. There are no new torque converters. Your only option is a rebuilt unit. If you don't replace it when you rebuild the unit, you will later, and you'll rebuild the transmission too.
The gasket kit, which is NLA as a kit, but for which the individual parts are still available, DOES NOT contain all the parts you need.
You must replace all clutches; budget for this. Whether you replace the steels or not is a judgement call, but you won't know absolutely until you complete the teardown. If you do not know whether to replace them, seek knowledgeable advice, or replace them. You should not expect to replace the flanges, but, again, you won't know absolutely until you complete the teardown.
You only need to replace the brake band if it's worn. The criteria is in the manual.
You should flush the entire cooler system, from the transmission inlet to the transmission outlet, before you reinstall the transmission. You will need twelve (12) quarts of ATF. The transmission needs 11-ish and the remainder you can use to flush the cooler loop and coat friction parts prior to assembly.
I would recommend you plan to replace all shift linkage bushings, while you have it disassembled.
You need to replace the torque converter when you rebuild the transmission. There are no new torque converters. Your only option is a rebuilt unit. If you don't replace it when you rebuild the unit, you will later, and you'll rebuild the transmission too.
The gasket kit, which is NLA as a kit, but for which the individual parts are still available, DOES NOT contain all the parts you need.
You must replace all clutches; budget for this. Whether you replace the steels or not is a judgement call, but you won't know absolutely until you complete the teardown. If you do not know whether to replace them, seek knowledgeable advice, or replace them. You should not expect to replace the flanges, but, again, you won't know absolutely until you complete the teardown.
You only need to replace the brake band if it's worn. The criteria is in the manual.
You should flush the entire cooler system, from the transmission inlet to the transmission outlet, before you reinstall the transmission. You will need twelve (12) quarts of ATF. The transmission needs 11-ish and the remainder you can use to flush the cooler loop and coat friction parts prior to assembly.
I would recommend you plan to replace all shift linkage bushings, while you have it disassembled.
Since the gasket kit, as a single part number, is NLA, you will have to source every one of over 60 parts yourself. If this isn't something you care to do, and I don't blame you, I will have the kit available, through my transmission repair company, soon. Contact me directly if you are interested.
I will have a storefront up next month.
I will have a storefront up next month.
I was recommended a transmission shop by reputable Landcrusier shop, but their quote was around 3.5k for bench build overhaul. Just something I can’t really swing unfortunately, and it feels wrong putting a used transmission with refreshed engine.
It does seem that amayama has 04351-60090 available
They don't.
I can rebuild yours cheaper than that, or you can do it yourself.
It's not a terrible idea to buy a used transmission, if you could get one for under $700, verify it yourself (the tests are in the unit repair manual), for the price of transmission fluid and a tube of gasket material, and save up to rebuild yours.
I can rebuild yours cheaper than that, or you can do it yourself.
It's not a terrible idea to buy a used transmission, if you could get one for under $700, verify it yourself (the tests are in the unit repair manual), for the price of transmission fluid and a tube of gasket material, and save up to rebuild yours.
- Thread starter
- #38
Sorry I was out of town and missed the messages above. However, Malleus gave not only very detailed advice, but spot-on. I will just add a couple of comments. Keep in mind, my comments are from a novice, not someone like Malleus that has done this many times.
His #3 item, to measure things during dis-assembly. This is good advice that I did not do. Taking photos of everything is also super important and my photos got me through a tough spot. During assembly, I measured everything with great care and there was one item that would not measure up to what the FSM said it should be. I disassembled/assembled the parts in this area more than 10 times and everything was perfect except the measurement would not match the FSM. Finally, after super close examination of my photos it was obvious that there was no problem. The small variation was due to my particular transmission and tolerances between the various parts, which I would have figured out easily if I had measured everything as it was disassembled.
His #4 item to buy OEM. For me, this was a big one. I bought a kit from a major supplier of transmission parts. The kit arrived in a largish box that contained 100s of parts, 99% of which were unlabeled. It was chaos fueled by the fact that, as malleus said, the kit contains parts for several different transmissions that you will end up not using. The chaos can eventually be sorted out, but then the next problem hits. As Malleus states, the tolerances for the parts in the box are not the same as OEM. This is a big problem. In my case, I fought this throughout the rebuild and finally said this is not going to happen. So, I trashed the entire kit and ordered every single part from Toyota. There are a lot of them, they are expensive, and they take time to get. I replaced every part (all bushings, seals, flanges, plates, discs, snap rings, o-rings, bolts, nuts, torque converter, etc, even all the small bearings and there are SO many of those) in that transmission other than the main solid components, and I got pretty dang good at tearing that thing apart and putting the pieces back together.
Item d. Not sure if we are talking about the same spring, but the first and reverse brake return spring sub-assembly part #35068-50010 is still available. And I agree, it is kind of easy to botch that part up. In fact, I botched up two of them before I got the technique down!
Items e & f. Yep... You need those two big screwdrivers, or you will be cussing that last snap ring for many hours (mine are 16"). You will end up buying every possible set of snap ring pliers you can find and even then, you will likely need to "customize" one or two of them on a grinder.
One sort of final thing is that some of the assemblies are quite heavy and a handful to maneuver into the correct position. During those maneuvers your hands will be grinding on multiple sharp things, and you will be gritting your teeth, but it is pretty cool when the whole thing is done.
Again, Malleus nicely summarized just about everything that I wish I had known when I went down this road. Thanks for that Malleus.
His #3 item, to measure things during dis-assembly. This is good advice that I did not do. Taking photos of everything is also super important and my photos got me through a tough spot. During assembly, I measured everything with great care and there was one item that would not measure up to what the FSM said it should be. I disassembled/assembled the parts in this area more than 10 times and everything was perfect except the measurement would not match the FSM. Finally, after super close examination of my photos it was obvious that there was no problem. The small variation was due to my particular transmission and tolerances between the various parts, which I would have figured out easily if I had measured everything as it was disassembled.
His #4 item to buy OEM. For me, this was a big one. I bought a kit from a major supplier of transmission parts. The kit arrived in a largish box that contained 100s of parts, 99% of which were unlabeled. It was chaos fueled by the fact that, as malleus said, the kit contains parts for several different transmissions that you will end up not using. The chaos can eventually be sorted out, but then the next problem hits. As Malleus states, the tolerances for the parts in the box are not the same as OEM. This is a big problem. In my case, I fought this throughout the rebuild and finally said this is not going to happen. So, I trashed the entire kit and ordered every single part from Toyota. There are a lot of them, they are expensive, and they take time to get. I replaced every part (all bushings, seals, flanges, plates, discs, snap rings, o-rings, bolts, nuts, torque converter, etc, even all the small bearings and there are SO many of those) in that transmission other than the main solid components, and I got pretty dang good at tearing that thing apart and putting the pieces back together.
Item d. Not sure if we are talking about the same spring, but the first and reverse brake return spring sub-assembly part #35068-50010 is still available. And I agree, it is kind of easy to botch that part up. In fact, I botched up two of them before I got the technique down!
Items e & f. Yep... You need those two big screwdrivers, or you will be cussing that last snap ring for many hours (mine are 16"). You will end up buying every possible set of snap ring pliers you can find and even then, you will likely need to "customize" one or two of them on a grinder.
One sort of final thing is that some of the assemblies are quite heavy and a handful to maneuver into the correct position. During those maneuvers your hands will be grinding on multiple sharp things, and you will be gritting your teeth, but it is pretty cool when the whole thing is done.
Again, Malleus nicely summarized just about everything that I wish I had known when I went down this road. Thanks for that Malleus.
@Gerrha you are now in a very exclusive club: Land Cruiser owners who have rebuilt their own transmissions, successfully. Congrats.
One quick note, the 1st & Reverse Spring subassembly you mentioned (35068-50010) is listed for the A340E/H, not the A343F. The A343F part number is 35068-30011, and it is no longer in the US EPC. I have not checked the Japanese EPC, nor have I checked for an interchange part.
The difference between the two applications is RWD/AWD vs. 4WD, so the difference in the parts may just be spring rate; they both will likely dimensionally interchange. IDK. At $30, I may just buy one to see...
Here's the EPC for the 80:
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Here are the two tools I mentioned above:
» 1) Holding fixture:
(the cheap one)
the "legit" one , not cheap
NOT this one, or anything like it
» 2) Spring subassembly compression tool:
The advantage with this tool is the semicircular legs which compress the spring sleeve. The reason this tool is better than almost anything else you'll find is that it locks once it's set, so you have both hands free. Professional rebuilding shops have a foot–operated model which gives them both hands.
Here it is in action:
Most people use a PVC pipe end cap, drilled for a long piece of allthread. That works too, but you have to get the right size, or it'll cover the snap ring. Or, you can do what KTC did for Toyota (09350-07040), and cut windows in the sides, or actually just one, since you only need to access one point on the snap ring. The recommended Toyota SST is designed to be used with an arbor press.
» 1) Holding fixture:
(the cheap one)
the "legit" one , not cheap
NOT this one, or anything like it
» 2) Spring subassembly compression tool:
The advantage with this tool is the semicircular legs which compress the spring sleeve. The reason this tool is better than almost anything else you'll find is that it locks once it's set, so you have both hands free. Professional rebuilding shops have a foot–operated model which gives them both hands.
Here it is in action:
Most people use a PVC pipe end cap, drilled for a long piece of allthread. That works too, but you have to get the right size, or it'll cover the snap ring. Or, you can do what KTC did for Toyota (09350-07040), and cut windows in the sides, or actually just one, since you only need to access one point on the snap ring. The recommended Toyota SST is designed to be used with an arbor press.
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