Turbo charging a Sniper'd 2F FJ60

[GMSilk_Fj60]

Greetings all,

I have a few 2F's laying around (and donor to put them in) and I have been really thinking on turbo charging a 2F with the sniper system. I'm doing my research and thought I'd ask a few questions that come to mind. DISCLAIMER: I'm not concerned about "the 2F isnt made for turbos" ... or the put a V8 in it... or get a diesel. Ive done this stuff. This is primarily a fun build. Consider it a thought experiment in "what if." I'm going to do my best to use what I got and make the rest...

1.) I have access to SAAB 9-3 turbos and Intercoolers. It seems that their ideal RPM range is 2500-4000 at 15-20psi boost, so I'm hoping at highway cruising speeds for a FJ60 they would give a little better power on hills. These are 2.0L SAAB engines, 1/2 the volume of the 4.2L 2F. Anybody familiar with these turbos? Foresee any issues?

2.) As an overlanding rig, I'm most worried about long bouts of highway driving at different altitudes. If I can get this to work, I'd like to drive my 60 across the US and back starting on the east coast. The Sniper EFI beats the altitude problem in some ways but I still expect to still lose power. As turbos were first used in aviation platforms to operate at altitude I thought this might be a neat experiment in high altitude power gains. What I'm concerned about is the lack of synchronized timing with the Sniper. I currently have a recurved Fj60 dizzy. Any way to make this work with a turbo application?

3.) As its is an overlanding rig, I was thinking of top mounting the intercooler and elevating the turbo to keep it clear of the worst dirt, mud, and water. Is there any way to protect a turbo from things like water crossings? I know the Aussies have turbo diesels and seem to wheel them in water pretty hard.

Just a few things that have come to mind as I start assembling all the parts...

 

[tmxmotorsports]

@Seth S aren't you fimilar with saabs?

 

[Prairie Swamp]

The only thing I know about sizing a turbo is that it's complex. I can't believe a turbo sized for a 2L 4 cyl is going to work for a 4.2L six. Especially when the F motor builds torque down low whereas the Saabs are going to rev much higher. I would personally search for a build thread somewhere, or spend a lot of time reading up on selecting a turbo but that's me. Some Saabs used a Mitsubishi TD04-HL 15T. I only know this because it's been used on a Mercedes 3.0L diesel as an upgrade and I'm looking at doing the same thing.

Turbos do offset some of the effects of altitude so good call there.

Intercooling never hurts. If you look at the plumbing of the F motor being non-crossflow it would get hairy with a top mounted air-air intercooler. What about a water to air IC with a heat exchanger mounted in a protected spot up front? Even so you're looking at totally custom in/ex manifolds.

I don't think water splash is going to hurt a turbo. I have to believe that guys with turbo diesels submerge them in deep water crossings as you mention. I would think that no one is at maximum boost fording a river so the heat should be lower so less concern about cracking something.

 

[OSS]

I lived up in the mountains at a ski resort where the town is at 8000 ft and the main lodge (where I drove every morning) is at 9000 ft. Sure, my 60 with the carbureted 2F at that altitude didn't have a ton of power, but that was to be expected. I accepted it. It didn't bother me or make me think I wanted a more powerful engine. All engines lose power at altitude, even modern EFI jobs.

When I moved from there back to sea level, I could feel the increase in power at the lower elevation, but I never once reflected back at the lack of power at the ski resort- it comes with the territory.

I think the albatross around the 2F's neck is experiencing modern cars. Their engines in comparison run so much better. But if you didn't have them to compare to (I came from a 4cyl 2L 20R Toyota) the 2F wouldn't seem so lame in comparison.
For me back then (30 years ago) the 2F was a BIG improvement over the littie 20R.

 

[cruisermatt]

Holley Terminator or Microsquirt.. and modify your intake for port injection, and set up a distributor-less setup with LS1 coils or something along those lines. If you’re going to do it might as well do it right, and that means real control over your tune vs a TBI setup for the same cost. VS Racing makes great affordable turbos.
You should easily double the 2F’s output if you can keep it together.

The big thing I see overlooked is mounting a 25-45lb turbo so that the manifold can resist the harshness of trail bouncing.

 

[Seth S]

@Seth S aren't you fimilar with saabs?

Yes.

9-5 aero got the TD04 as did the 9-3 viggen. I believe the other 9-5’s and 9-3’s got a gt17. The earlier 900’s got a garret T3 and the early 90’s 900’s got a Mitsubishi te05 turbo.


I have no idea how a turbo sized for a 2 or 2.3 liter engine would work on a 4.2. The saabs build good boost around 2500 rpm and pull into the 5k’s. Usually running a max of about 12 psi. Also the later Saab turbo engines run close to 10:1 compression with 4 valves per cylinder and direct ignition integrated with the efi.

 

[mattressking]

What about a ct12 or the popular ct26? Both were used on 6cyl platforms, granted slightly different but you could grab a ct12 from someone ditching off their 1jz. CT26 has a few aftermarket vendors to keep the price low to start.

 

[dogfishlake]

The new super sniper from Holley is made for a blow through application, perfect for the 2f. I've got this set up planned for one of my trucks. I am thinking ct26 to keep it toyota based. Big turbo with very low pressure is best I think. That should bring on the boost smoothly and with a 6 psi wastegate setting or even a little lower, I think th 2f will handle it fine. The 3fe exhaust looks like it would lend itself to a nice J pipe turbo manifold.
I would think you have to let the sniper control the dizzy, so perhaps a DUI distributor would be best.

I have done the top mount intercooler with meh results. Water to air, like a cheap kit from Silicone Intakes for example, gives great flexibility for location of the ic.

I really don't think you need any fancy engine work, you aren't building an F1 car.

There is no way I can do this anytime soon on my truck but it will happen. It's too cool not too.

I think you are on the right track. Keep it simple and it should work awesome .

 

[dogfishlake]

@FJ60Cam

 

[WSOPgold2012]

Really have no clue what most of you are saying....but "sniper" AND "Turbo" gives me a chubby. Following with interest!!

 

[kirvesmies]

@GMSilk_Fj60, there was a thread started a month or 2 ago regarding turbos on 2f's. tryed lookin' for it, but my google foo blows chunks. it's in the 60 section here

 

[White Stripe]

With the sniper and the recurved distributor I would just retard the base timing a few degrees. You can also compensate for lack of ignition control with fuel to a certain point. 7.8:1 compression also gives a fair amount of timing forgiveness to a certain point. Getting electronic timing control would be ideal. I wouldn't plan on running 20psi of boost but somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 to 10 psi should be easily doable. Mace is running 12psi on his setup with 40" tires. Turbo selection will be the most critical as you don't have a lot of rpm range in a 2f. I would look to start building boost just under 2k rpm. Either the stock 2f exhaust manifold or the 3fe manifolds could be adapted easily to hold a turbo. Some additional brace supports for the weight of the turbo is a good idea. CX racing has a turbo kit for the 4.0 jeep as do a few other companies. Thats a very similar sized engine so a turbo from one of those kits might be a good match.

 

[FJ60Cam]

I was discussing this with my machine shop and a local performance shop that does a lot of turbo work...

Our strategy was going to be:

-Super Sniper
-high 8s - 9.0 compression ratio
-small turbo that spools up low
-boost control that tapers off so you aren’t tempted to rev it super high.

The idea is that the turbo comes on quick, with some built in safety to protect the (relatively) low revving 2F. This should be safer power than relying on rpm to build power.

The Super Sniper has more computing power than the regular Sniper and can do boost control along with a few other things desirable for turbo.

 

[Kleatus]

@NookShneer sent me here because he knows I have been contemplating such an endeavor myself...
My 3FE has taken me anywhere I wanted to go, but it's got a lot of miles and the block has two weeping splits in the water jacket that I have been monitoring with a suspicious eye for years.. but my main source of angst on cross country trips is the 30 year old wiring, connectors and computer hardware.. I have been kicking around building a good 2F block with the 4.4L pistons, using the 3FE head and intake manifold, and megasquirt with a GM throttle body and Ford EDIS ignition after mounting a trigger wheel on the crank. Light port and polish and a Delta cam. And if I was going to all that trouble, a turbo would make sense. I go back and forth between something like this and an LS swap. Lots of other irons in the fire anyway.

Other than relative ease of installation, I can't see using a TBI setup with 2F manifolds when Toyota already designed a multiport EFI setup for us. Then there's the timing control which is even more important in a boosted application.

 

[FJ60Cam]

@NookShneer sent me here because he knows I have been contemplating such an endeavor myself...
My 3FE has taken me anywhere I wanted to go, but it's got a lot of miles and the block has two weeping splits in the water jacket that I have been monitoring with a suspicious eye for years.. but my main source of angst on cross country trips is the 30 year old wiring, connectors and computer hardware.. I have been kicking around building a good 2F block with the 4.4L pistons, using the 3FE head and intake manifold, and megasquirt with a GM throttle body and Ford EDIS ignition after mounting a trigger wheel on the crank. Light port and polish and a Delta cam. And if I was going to all that trouble, a turbo would make sense. I go back and forth between something like this and an LS swap. Lots of other irons in the fire anyway.

Other than relative ease of installation, I can't see using a TBI setup with 2F manifolds when Toyota already designed a multiport EFI setup for us. Then there's the timing control which is even more important in a boosted application.

That was going to be (or similar to) my next (more complicated) plan - 3FE head & associated intake parts but use a Holley Terminator to control everything.

Actually, my first plan is to try this on a NA 1FZ w/ cams & high compression pistons and H55. I think that would be a good, torquey swap motor.

It’s good to have options, somebody needs to pick one and do it!

 

[cruisermatt]

this is not helping my thoughts about turbo-ing my 5.3.

 

[Seth S]

Heat is going to be your biggest problem followed by knock avoidance. Detonation will melt pistons and other bits in no time at all and just because you cannot hear it doesn’t mean it is t happening. You’ll want some sort of boost control that can adjust for knock or ignition that can handle knock. I’ve mentioned this in other threads but the Saab APC system is a great way to control boost through knock detection. Hardest part is figuring out where to mount the knock sensor. But basically the sensor detects knock vibration and cycles a valve to actuate the wastegate and dump boost. The system uses a control box, the knock sensor, an APC solenoid and a simple harness. Saabs used to be pretty common in junkyards 83-93 turbos. Not so common now but still worth looking. The control box was set for a given boost level but you could trick things by setting the base boost at the wastegate lower or higher through the mechanical actuator.

Otherwise you want an ignition that regards ignition when it detects knock.

Now heat. You could very well see your exhaust manifold glowing yellow after a long climb with a working turbo even with an intercooler. I’d seriously think about a custom exhaust manifold design.

 

[White Stripe]

Builds - 2F + (3F-E) = 2FETI Into My FJ40

2F + 3FE = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40 Well after reading a few threads on grafting a 3FE head on to a 2F block we have decided to go the whole 9 yards and return the punt for a touch down and build an injected turbo water inter cooled 2F. I already have a worked 2F that rocks that's been rebuilt and...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Prairie Swamp]

this is not helping my thoughts about turbo-ing my 5.3.

Now heat. You could very well see your exhaust manifold glowing yellow after a long climb with a working turbo even with an intercooler. I’d seriously think about a custom exhaust manifold design.

 

[Seth S]