Turbo- 3b or 13bt?

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ummm, how many people actually worry about precups?

how does he know the 13BT is better looked after? poor call.

only in Kiwiland does the DI get better fuel mileage ...

now, go play with your clay dolls and leave the adults to chat.
 
You can treat a 13BT as badly as you like, it won't drop it's precombustion cups or crack it's head. That is the difference.

There is only one person in the world believing that IDI engines get better economy. That's you.
Toyotas own figures show the Di's are a lot more efficient. As well as better economy, they get more power and torque from the same amount of fuel.
 
I'm liking this discussion.

Thanks-


Pete
 
Dougal and Crushers, I dont know you guys but I feel like I do, reading your many clashing posts. I love it.
Didnt realize that about the precups with the 13BT, probably never own one, but good to know.

Sincerely appreciate and respect the knowledge you both provide to this forum.

What would be the price difference on a 13BT vs his setup with the 3B and adding a turbo later?
If you source your own parts/turbo etc it can be done relatively cheap.

Clay Dolls??
 
Voodoo dolls

Never mind read Dougals sig line. Still over my head.
Engineering design?
 
samwise said:
Never mind read Dougals sig line. Still over my head.
Engineering design?
Click to expand...

Another member who kept getting banned was trying to be funny, so I humoured him by modifying my signature line.

IMO if a 13BT was $US2K more than a 3B, it would still be excellent value.
 
So just to get this settled (ha) exactly what kind of abuse does the IDI need to see to drop a pre cup? I assume that over heating is the meaning of abuse. My whole point in putting on a turbo is to reduce the chance of over heating.

If I went with the 3b I'd be putting a new turbo on it. In the case of the 13bt is the turbo good for the life of the engine. I'd guess not. when do they typically need to be replaced? What should I do to prepare a 13bt for another 300,000 or more km of regular service?

Either engine gets way better mileage than the td4n in our nissan- which BTW is already cheaper by far than running a gas engine here in japan. Mileage is not my top concern. My main concern is getting a solid engine in that will be able to run thru the mountains with a light trailer without going so slow as to be annoy to drive or follow and will last basically longer than me with regular maintenance. I suspect that the B series engine will be a pita for parts in the future (read 15 years)- but not any more so than any engine currently produced by any manufacturer. I'd guess that engine specific parts for the 3b will be findable for longer than the 13bt due to its wide spread use. However I'm hoping not to need any internals and what ever engine i ultimately commit to you can bet I'll seek out a spare.

But- I do wonder- why replace my perfectly good condition 2b with a 3b with the same mileage. I could get teh 5 speed and turbo the 2b and since I'm not seeking tons of power probably get away with out cooled pistons.....


Pete
 
Last edited:
peteinjp said:
But- I do wonder- why replace my perfectly good condition 2b with a 3b with the same mileage. I could get teh 5 speed and turbo the 2b and since I'm not seeking tons of power probably get away with out cooled pistons.....


Pete
Click to expand...

I would stick with the 2B if that all you want out of it. If it does die,you can probably transfer the turbo across to a replacement 3B.
Or maybe by then you will have had enough of 40 series and start looking for a 7* series;)
 
roscoFJ73 said:
I would stick with the 2B if that all you want out of it. If it does die,you can probably transfer the turbo across to a replacement 3B.
Or maybe by then you will have had enough of 40 series and start looking for a 7* series;)
Click to expand...

Yeah I would I would go this route personally.
I wouldn't stress about a 3b
They are tough as fxxx.
 
If you want better future parts supply, find a 14BT. But it sounds like turbocharging what you've got will better fit your current goals.
 
ok so IDI injects fuel into the pre cup and DI fuel is injected into the cylinder...

What is a precups purpose? To slightly warm fuel for a better burn? Would it be true to say it helps the combustion of alternative fuels?

My 3b has well over 300 000km's on it now and I don't think about pre cups at all, of course I do actually watch exhaust temps! The change in my driving style since EGT install explains to me why 3B's drop precups and crack heads. You shouldn't expect your 95hp 3b to go on a 400 series highway and do 110kmph on a slight grade with no consequence... It isn't your underpowered engines fault it dropped a pre cup after 3 or 400 000km of abuse, it's your right foots!

3B's don't have head problems! It's their operators that have head problems!

You will realize quickly what a real "problem" is if you've ever owned a 7MGT, 3VZFE or from what I read 2LT!

If you're on a budget Crushers answered your question! A grand for a complete diesel is peanuts as to what most people put into these kind of swaps!

Cheers
 
Last edited:
Eric Winkworth said:
What is a precups purpose? To slightly warm fuel for a better burn? Would it be true to say it helps the combustion of alternative fuels?
Click to expand...

The precombustion cup is a combustion bowl with a narrow throat situated in the head. Air from the cylinder is compressed through this throat where the fuel is burned hot and rich, it then blows back through the throat and into the cylinder creating a lot of turbulence to mix the remaining air with the burning mixture.

Because the cups are in the head, they lose a lot of heat to the cooling system. This lost heat is the cause of the efficiency loss in IDI engines and also the reason their cooling loads are higher for the same power output.
Also because the cups are in the head, the head is mechanically a lot weaker. It has a big cylindrical hole in it above each cylinder where it needs the most strength.

The thermal stress these precombustion cups experience is extreme, which is why many of them crack and some of them fall apart. If they fall apart they play munch between your pistons and head.

IDI engines injectors are a lot less sophisticated than a direct injection engine, they have larger holes (often just one) and spray less. This is why the veggie oil guys like them. The injectors can't plug up as easily.
 
Nice, alternative fuels are why diesel engines interested me in the first place! I think it's kinda of funny how the fuel was invented after the engine!
 
Ok well were getting somewhere here. If I go with something else I'm now leaning toward the 14 series. How bout this- with the 14 adn I'm almost wondering if the 14b non turbo wouldn't do the job for me. Not sure how it would be at altitude but surely it has some type of altitude compensation. Looking at other posts it seems to share the mounting locations and will make to the h55....

Pete
 
A non turbo 14B would be a lot easier to find.
 
I'm of the opinion that a diesel without a turbo is only half an engine. It took me a few years to suck up the courage to turbo the 3B but since then every 3B got turbo'd right away.
Whatever you get, if you're going to the mountains you want a turbo!
 
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