Probender????
Woody, whats your issue about the Probender? PM me if needed, looking to get one this month.
Woody, whats your issue about the Probender? PM me if needed, looking to get one this month.
Tube Bender's
- Thread starter acflyguy18
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Woody, if you don't mind, cc me in on the response to the yellow heads email. i am in the market to upgrade to a real bender (well better than what i have) and don't want to waste my hard earned cash.
cheers
cheers
I had a long drawn out e-mail back to you but in the process of getting a few links for you it got deleted.
So here you go
I have the Pro-4 with JD Square dies
ProBender.Com Tel:763.315.5019
My dies are 1", 1.5" and 1.75 tube and 1" square tube
All purchased from Poly Performance on a 15% off sale, free shipping over a certain $$$ purchase.
I have two things I dislike about the Pro Bender
1. no degree wheel, I find myself bending short, then removing and fitting a piece then re-bending a degree or more.
The digital degree tool is s*** for tube, its a flat face that does not attach well or securely to round tube. The zero option has proved to be a pain in the ass.
It can be bought for alot less at Harbor Freight.
2. The pins to release the tube if its a long piece of work are tight and a pain to remove, If you have a large piece way up in the air like a cage loop and release it it can swing to the side and might hurt you or a truck, you have to plan for it:whoops:
I really like the ability to move the bender around the shop.
I like the simple air/hydro system, its a Harbor Freight ram, if it fails its 60$
I have a spare in my engine hoist if needed.
The dies have to bought from another vendor, they all cost the same price, I looked for a sale/shipping deal.
Get a better release knob than the OE ram release knob.
If I did it again I would of done Air Hydro horizontal bender with degree wheel and maybe on a cart. I dont like not being able to move stuff in my shop.
I had a fixed JD 3 manual bender, what a bitch with it in the middle of my old garage.
I do like Swag Offroads solution............JD2 JMR Protools tube bending fabrication 4x4
Troy builds bad ass stuff....
I did add these items to help also.
Trick Tools.............
lots of sales right now.
Trick Tools.............
lots of sales right now.
i do like that nick fitter... sweet.
got a name and/or a link?
so all in all you like the Pro but would go horizontal on a cart, gottcha. time to upgrade. got a link to the one you "would" have bought?
thanks for the feed back.
got a name and/or a link?
so all in all you like the Pro but would go horizontal on a cart, gottcha. time to upgrade. got a link to the one you "would" have bought?
thanks for the feed back.
Model 4 Hydraulic Tube Bender at Van Sant Enterprises, Inc.
Nothing against Baileigh, their stuff is just too much$$$$$$$$$ for a bender.
Also I research here for some more info...............
.http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=61
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=55
Nothing against Baileigh, their stuff is just too much$$$$$$$$$ for a bender.
Also I research here for some more info...............
.http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=61
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=55
well, I shopped all weekend going over the reports of the various benders on the market after struggling with the PA POS. the probender looked great at first but when I started getting feed back from those that had bought one ... well ... I changed my mind.
I looked at this one: Rotary Draw Bender RDB-050 Video
but didn't like the way it worked, personal preference since I will be the one using it.
ended up buying this one: Greenlee 880 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2" and 2" Rigid Conduit Bender without Hydraulic Pump
pamphlete here: http://www.greenlee.com/cat_docs/Bending_07.pdf
retail value of $3200 CND and scored it for $650 complete. I looked at it since this is the one that Trailmaster has been using for years and I did like the results in his shop. got home today after a 7 hour round trip, stuck some sch 40 1.5" in and did a PERFECT 90* first try ... can you see the smile on my face?
not as fancy as the others but it works and didn't break the bank. now I just want to get the electric over hydraulic installed on it.
just thought some of you might be in the market and thought I would share.
I looked at this one: Rotary Draw Bender RDB-050 Video
but didn't like the way it worked, personal preference since I will be the one using it.
ended up buying this one: Greenlee 880 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2" and 2" Rigid Conduit Bender without Hydraulic Pump
pamphlete here: http://www.greenlee.com/cat_docs/Bending_07.pdf
retail value of $3200 CND and scored it for $650 complete. I looked at it since this is the one that Trailmaster has been using for years and I did like the results in his shop. got home today after a 7 hour round trip, stuck some sch 40 1.5" in and did a PERFECT 90* first try ... can you see the smile on my face?
not as fancy as the others but it works and didn't break the bank. now I just want to get the electric over hydraulic installed on it.
just thought some of you might be in the market and thought I would share.
buddy
mine and customers
and i have done the research and when the dust settles pipe and tube will not be an issue on an expedition unit, remember this is not a high speed dragster or track car that will be rolling at 120 mph.
unless i misread some info somewhere and misunderstood my suppliers (35 years in the business) recommendations.
and i have done the research and when the dust settles pipe and tube will not be an issue on an expedition unit, remember this is not a high speed dragster or track car that will be rolling at 120 mph.
unless i misread some info somewhere and misunderstood my suppliers (35 years in the business) recommendations.
Just make sure that your customers understand the materials they are getting.
I'd be pretty pissed if I learned I was getting 1.5" Sch 40 pipe instead of 1.75 Dom round tubing. And more so if I was expecting some type of Chromoly.
Pipe does work, but you have to know the composition and the processes that have been applied to it.
Expedition rigs are heavy. The forces involved in a 60 mpg crash of a 8K rig are not too far from the forces involved in a 1500 lb rig at 120 mmph..
I'd be pretty pissed if I learned I was getting 1.5" Sch 40 pipe instead of 1.75 Dom round tubing. And more so if I was expecting some type of Chromoly.
Pipe does work, but you have to know the composition and the processes that have been applied to it.
Expedition rigs are heavy. The forces involved in a 60 mpg crash of a 8K rig are not too far from the forces involved in a 1500 lb rig at 120 mmph..
nope, no misleading statements to my customers.
it seems strange that for decades people have been using sch 40 for rig side steps and bumpers and suddenly "it ain't cool" any longer.
have you seen pipe fail in an accident? i never have.
but then i don't do cages and refuse to do a full cage, i farm that out to the pros.
it seems strange that for decades people have been using sch 40 for rig side steps and bumpers and suddenly "it ain't cool" any longer.
have you seen pipe fail in an accident? i never have.
but then i don't do cages and refuse to do a full cage, i farm that out to the pros.
It really has nothing to do with "cool" It has more to do with as safe as possible with as light a weight as possible. For the same strength the various Chromo alloys are significantly lighter than a standard piece of tube you might get at Home Depot. It also tends to have more quality control. So you get a more consistent piece of protection.
I have seen pipe break as rock sliders.
I have also seen a very proud person because he built a cage out of pipe (even had the cast 90's welded in). Passed tech at the Rubithon and everything.
Still creepy....
Some of the racing bodies still have sch 40 listed in their specs..
Think of it this way, would you rather ride a motorcycle with a helmet from the 50's or a more modern one?
Nothing new here, but I'm confused...Mace, you just got done saying earlier in this thread the "schedule 40 pipe is a process" and asking someone to clarify their reasoning when they stated that it shouldn't be used in cages and the like. Now, you are saying that you've seen it fail in rock slider application and that it's "creepy" in a roll cage application.
Color me stupid, but I don't understand. What are you trying to say? I read this stuff and try to take it at face value, but I can't see the value in any of this conversation. I guess I may need to take it with a box of salt...
Color me stupid, but I don't understand. What are you trying to say? I read this stuff and try to take it at face value, but I can't see the value in any of this conversation. I guess I may need to take it with a box of salt...
silly question, i would ride with no helmet. just like i have no issue wheeling with a 1976 40 series with a stock roll bar or a 1970 40 series with no bar.
if you know how to drive then the bar becomes irrelevant. of course if you play on the hills in Moab or take risky chances with your life then the bar will become more of an issue.
if you are playing in the hills of Ontario or the hills of Alberta or the mud pits of the flat lands then the bar isn't as important as common sense and driving ablility. you can try and build the ultimate roll bar but if the operator is an idiot, well, he will find a way to break it.
i would love to hear / see the reasoning behind the "break" of the rock sliders, there has to be more to that story. i built a set of sliders for Peters behemoth 60 and he "surfed" the rubicon with them. the front end of the 60 sliding along the sliders in the air till the teeter totter tottered and then the front end dragged the rear end back down the rocks. other than some loss of paint they stood up to Peters abuse.
plus, i have seen what some of the guys "wheel" over and the word insanity comes to mind.
it comes down to application, if you are sticking a 6 point cage into a vehicle with the spreaders going beside the occupants head, even if tucked close to the roof profile, these become an issue equal to or even more important than cage strength since a chunk of steel vs a bare noggin is going to hurt. how many weekend warriors that install these fancy ass cages where the proper protection when driving down the road or on the trail? helmets. proper belts. there is a reason that race car drivers have to have head protection on at all times, there is a reason for 4 or 5 point seat belts. so when the discussion turns to "safety" there is much more than just the type of material the cage is made from to discuss. like i said earlier, i WON'T build a 6 point cage or any type of cage that goes beside the drivers head since people don't drive their DD to and from work with a helmet on.
in a nutshell, i have heard of more injuries from cages over the last 30 years then i have from stock roll bars and no roll bars. i have seen in person the results of a stock bar doing its job of protecting the occupents and have read of people dieing with cages and no personal protection.
in the end, it comes down to personal choice. i CHOOSE to listen to the old school practices and you have the right to listen to the newer school of thought.
if weight was an issue and pounds per horse power was a critiria then i can understand the newer standards being important. being a 8000 lb vehicle, an extra 200 lbs will not be the straw.
now we can get into the tube vs pipe vs ... debate but in the end, steel is steel and cutting fine hairs does little. i beleive this thread was about benders and not the material for cages.
if you know how to drive then the bar becomes irrelevant. of course if you play on the hills in Moab or take risky chances with your life then the bar will become more of an issue.
if you are playing in the hills of Ontario or the hills of Alberta or the mud pits of the flat lands then the bar isn't as important as common sense and driving ablility. you can try and build the ultimate roll bar but if the operator is an idiot, well, he will find a way to break it.
i would love to hear / see the reasoning behind the "break" of the rock sliders, there has to be more to that story. i built a set of sliders for Peters behemoth 60 and he "surfed" the rubicon with them. the front end of the 60 sliding along the sliders in the air till the teeter totter tottered and then the front end dragged the rear end back down the rocks. other than some loss of paint they stood up to Peters abuse.
plus, i have seen what some of the guys "wheel" over and the word insanity comes to mind.
it comes down to application, if you are sticking a 6 point cage into a vehicle with the spreaders going beside the occupants head, even if tucked close to the roof profile, these become an issue equal to or even more important than cage strength since a chunk of steel vs a bare noggin is going to hurt. how many weekend warriors that install these fancy ass cages where the proper protection when driving down the road or on the trail? helmets. proper belts. there is a reason that race car drivers have to have head protection on at all times, there is a reason for 4 or 5 point seat belts. so when the discussion turns to "safety" there is much more than just the type of material the cage is made from to discuss. like i said earlier, i WON'T build a 6 point cage or any type of cage that goes beside the drivers head since people don't drive their DD to and from work with a helmet on.
in a nutshell, i have heard of more injuries from cages over the last 30 years then i have from stock roll bars and no roll bars. i have seen in person the results of a stock bar doing its job of protecting the occupents and have read of people dieing with cages and no personal protection.
in the end, it comes down to personal choice. i CHOOSE to listen to the old school practices and you have the right to listen to the newer school of thought.
if weight was an issue and pounds per horse power was a critiria then i can understand the newer standards being important. being a 8000 lb vehicle, an extra 200 lbs will not be the straw.
now we can get into the tube vs pipe vs ... debate but in the end, steel is steel and cutting fine hairs does little. i beleive this thread was about benders and not the material for cages.
What I said was that you have to know what the chemical composition and the processes that have been applied to the pipe. Meaning, you can get chromoly pipe and pipe that has gone through the DOM process. That being said, Those types of pipe are few and far between and you will pay for them. People like pipe because it is reasonably strong and cheap if you go down to you local hardware store and purchase it. But the quality control on
"Tubing" is a bit of a catch-all as well. ERW (electric resistance weld) is not a material, but the process of making the tube round (works on pipe as well). DOM (drawn over mandrel) is a proces as well, but it typically is a bit stronger metalurgy than the mild steel ERW tubing). Chromoly actually describes the material being used but has multiple different alloys (and heat treatment methods) associated with it.
The difference being that most of the tubing that you go down to your local steel yard and pickup is defined fairly well to what the material is made up of and what processes have been applied to it. That data can be used to identify which tubing is more consistant and stronger for a given weight.
I guess that was a poor comparison given the thoughts behind helmets. How bout welding then. Do you do everything with a stick welder? O/A???
BS. Driving has nothing to do with road safety. Almost all convertables now a days come with roll bars for safety. That is because you can easily be t-boned on the road and die when someone blows a stop sign. There is nothing wrong with taking precautions. And yes, if you take advantage of harder trails you are increasing the chances of rolling.
The break was a fracture because of impurities in the materials. They are also typicaly softer, so the material dents and scraps of easier. The failures have been with pretty good abuse. Seams in the pipe also split a bit easier because the material bends easier.
You know that the Rubicon is actually a pretty easy trail right?
Did you really just imply that no cage at all is safer than haveing a roll cage???
I have heard of more minor injuries from heads hitting cages. And that is primarily from poor design. I have heard of more deaths because no cage was used. Pick and choose. I'd rather live with a headache. Of course all aspects of safety is important. People have died pulling their trucks off of the trailer when not wearing a seatbelt. Common sense must prevail.
Nothing wrong with pipe as a slider or bumper as long as you do not mind the weight. I just wanted to make sure what your uses were.
i
Even on an expedition vehicle every pound counts. "Another" 200 lbs is just that. And they all add up. The more weight you carry the more likely you are to break.
Steel is definately not steel. The strength differences are significant. As are the weight savings. The reason I commented is because benders and the materials they bend go hand in hand. If someone wanted to build a cage and hopped on to this thread to read what you just purchased they might find a similar deal. And spend $700 on something that they are not really going to be happy with.
I guess, if you are going to use pipe, at least know what it is made out of and what processes have been applied to it.
Material Specs and Info
tell that to the bloke that caught his head between the speader and the tree and died from it.
in reality, i have never heard or read of anyone dieing from a factory cage or no roll bar at all in a 40, or 70. it seems you are more informed of this than i am.
so, going by your line of thought, you must vbe installing air bags into the older land cruisers for safety reasons since ... well ... they are the latest greatest in safety, right?
you can go though life fearing an accident, you can buy into all the fear mongering, that is your right. it is my right to not live in fear, if driving for 35 years and no serious accidents is no proof then the idea of insurance companies making HUGE premiums from the millions of policies should show the propaganda.
but each to their own, i have had these debates for years now, those that believe in the fear mongering are going to believe, those that don't ... won't.
i am surprised that you even allow yourself or your loved ones to leave the house though, since in your world, there is an accident waiting for you just around the corner.
in reality, i have never heard or read of anyone dieing from a factory cage or no roll bar at all in a 40, or 70. it seems you are more informed of this than i am.
so, going by your line of thought, you must vbe installing air bags into the older land cruisers for safety reasons since ... well ... they are the latest greatest in safety, right?
you can go though life fearing an accident, you can buy into all the fear mongering, that is your right. it is my right to not live in fear, if driving for 35 years and no serious accidents is no proof then the idea of insurance companies making HUGE premiums from the millions of policies should show the propaganda.
but each to their own, i have had these debates for years now, those that believe in the fear mongering are going to believe, those that don't ... won't.
i am surprised that you even allow yourself or your loved ones to leave the house though, since in your world, there is an accident waiting for you just around the corner.