Trying to get to the pinion seal on a front diff

[landtoy80]

My FSM shows a post/beam type in/lb torque wrench for checking the preload of the pinion.
A torque meter/dial would be best but a post/beam would be easier to find and cheaper.
Shoot for 5 to 7 and you should be ok.
Note; if you have to use a braker bar with a long pipe to get the pinion nut tight enough or if you have a torque wrench that goes to 250 ft/bls you will need to install a new chush sleeve as max torque on the pinion nut is 253 ft/bls.
Make sure the pinion turns smoothly.

 

[nyk438]

I'm not sure I fully understand. So get the torque wrench and torque the pinion nut to 250ft/lbs? Then get a dialer to check the in/lbs of the nut?

 

[nyk438]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42265&item=4312018533&rd=1


Will this one work?

or this


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11805&item=3828148637&rd=1

 

[sleeoffroad]

You torque the nut (holding the pinion static) but check the preload by spinning the gearset. You are not checking how tight the nut is, but what the effect is of the tightening of the nut? Clear as mud

 

[landtoy80]

Is your front end up on jack stand?
If so then you need to hold the pinion flange (the shiny metal part that you bolt up the driveshaft to). A big pipe wrench will work.
You now need to know how to check the pinion preload.
Put the flange on and turn the flange back and forth. See how it turns a little bit before one of the rotors turn or wheels turn (if you have the wheels on) This is what you are measuring, the little bit back and forth. If the rotors turn when you are checking the preload you are turning the pinion to far.

1) put on nut
2) tighten it till it gets hand tight
3) with the torquemeter/dial/post or beam wrench, check the preload (the little back and forth)
4) tighten the nut a little more
5) check the preload
6) do this untill you get 5 to 7 in/lb
7) if you can't get the 5 to 7 in/lbs without using a big braker bar with a long pipe on it the crush sleeve is bad.

The 253 ft/lb nunber is the max amount that the pinion nut can be torqued.

I hope this helps.

 

[landtoy80]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42265&item=4312018533&rd=1


Will this one work?

or this


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11805&item=3828148637&rd=1

Both will work.
The only problem with used is they might not measure correctly. If they have been dropped they could be bad.

 

[landtoy80]

You torque the nut (holding the pinion static) but check the preload by spinning the gearset. You are not checking how tight the nut is, but what the effect is of the tightening of the nut? Clear as mud

Christo,
Correct me if I am wrong but you are not measuring the preload by spinning the gearset. It will take more than 5 in/lb to spin the gearset. Many things would change the reading like how worn or tight the wheel bearings are, are the brakes hanging up or warped rotors, the amount of grease in the steering knuckle, new or worn diff bearings etc. ??????

 

[montocr]

preload on assembled diff

That is why pinion bearings often fail shortly after the pinion seal is changed w/out full tear down. There is no way to check bearing condition, and measuring preload is at best a good guess.

 

[landtoy80]

That is why pinion bearings often fail shortly after the pinion seal is changed w/out full tear down. There is no way to check bearing condition, and measuring preload is at best a good guess.

That is why you need to check the preload of the pinoin before you remove the nut.
In the Haynes manual it says
"The desired preload is the previously recorded torque valueplush five inch-pounds"
As NYK438 didn't record the preload before he removed the pinion, we don't know what to add 5 in/lb to.
As I had new bearings and had to replace the pinion 2 times I only added 2 or 3 in-lb the second time. I reused the pinion nut, the nut was crushed in almost the same place each time I did it.

It might be best for NYK to go to a shop and have them replace the crush sleeve, right?

The Haynes manual shows 7.8 to 11.3 in-lb for the pinion preload.
The FSM shows 4.3 to 6.9 on used bearing. 8.7 to 13.9 on mew bearing.
The FSM say to replace the crush sleeve too. As the pullers to pull the bearing,outer race and oil storage ring is big $$$$, its cheaper to remove the thrid member and replace the crush sleeve that way. But that means you have to pull the axles (lots of labor involved).

 

[Rookie2]

Old nut? Thats the nut I pulled off the pinion. My father had the birfields repacked I assume not too long ago b/c this nut is new.

If your father pulled the pinion nut to repack the birfields, then I think I know the root of some of your problems.

 

[landtoy80]

NYK
Was the pinion nut you remove staked to the pinion?
Is that nut you have a pic of the one that you removed from the pinion?
Staked is when you punch the neck of the nut to the slot in the pinion. This keeps the nut from working its way off/loose from the pinion.

How many miles are on your 80? May as well have it rebuilt with new bearings if they have to remove the diff to replace the crush sleeve.

 

[nyk438]

If your father pulled the pinion nut to repack the birfields, then I think I know the root of some of your problems.

No no, my father never touched the car himself really. The birfield and axle service was all done at the dealership cost him like 1100 dollars or something.

133k on the cruiser.

Yes that was the nut I that was taken off the pinion.

What is the crush sleeve, and waht does it do?

 

[nyk438]

Couldn't fix the cruiser myself, the price of replacing the seal was way more than waht it would've cost to buy the tools for it. Now I"m getting it towed up to LCS to get it fixed. Cost me 10 dollars to tow it 23 miles.

 

[IdahoDoug]

FYI,

For future reference, don't ever have a diff rebuilt without checking the Toyota price for a new one and comparing. A buddy was quoted $1200-1600 for rebuilding his. I checked into it and a complete new third member setup perfectly by the factory was around $800. Installation is basically bolt in - no skill require. Plus the guy who assembled it also assembled 30 others like it that day whereas a local shop may be looking at his first 80 diff ever and only the 10th of his life.

DougM

 

[Cruiserdrew]

FYI,

For future reference, don't ever have a diff rebuilt without checking the Toyota price for a new one and comparing. A buddy was quoted $1200-1600 for rebuilding his. I checked into it and a complete new third member setup perfectly by the factory was around $800. Installation is basically bolt in - no skill require. Plus the guy who assembled it also assembled 30 others like it that day whereas a local shop may be looking at his first 80 diff ever and only the 10th of his life.

DougM

Doug-that is way out of range for a rebuild. If you pull the diff yourself, a bearing and seal kit is $125, and the labor to rebuild it is $150, at least around here. Obviously if the shop does all the work of pulling out the diff, the price is higher, but even then the labor is around $500 for a front. Our local differential shop (River City Diffferentials) works on all brands of differentials, but the owner wheels Toyota minitrucks! He's seen lots of Land Cruiser diffs including 4 of mine.

 

[landtoy80]

<I checked into it and a complete new third member setup perfectly by the factory was around $800.>

Was that with the locker too? I asked Cdan how much it was but I kant remember?

 

[nyk438]

Arg,


I took my 80 to Land Cruiser Speacialists to have the seal replaced and I got it back today after they replaced the seal and it still leaks. It leaks at the bottom of the differential on the front axle. Could it be another seal somewhere in the front axle that I should have them look at?

It drips very slowly on the front differential. Could it be just gear oil from the previous leak?

 

[landtoy80]

Clean it up real good and see what happens.

 

[landtank]

Take a good wiff of it and be sure it's gear lube. You might have an engine leak that is dripping down onto the diff.

 

[nyk438]

I'm very sure it's gear lube. I was covered in it when I tried fixing the seal myself. When it dries up tomorrow I'll get under there with a rag and wipe everything down. There is a drip that forms at the bottom I wiped that off and then after awhile it's there again...