Transmission service advice needed (1 Viewer)

[RockDriver]

2001 HDJ100 with 330K km (200K miles) on the clock. Unclear when or if ever the transmission was serviced by previous owner(s).

I called the local Toyota dealer and was quoted 380 euro (about the same in USD) for parts and labor. This guy said something strange though - he said there isn't a gasket to be replaced, so they would be using "manufacturer sealant" or something along those lines. But when I look at non-OEM transmission service kits there's always a gasket included.

So my question is - is there a gasket or not? Also, does the price quoted seem reasonable? Any relevant comments appreciated.

 

[Dparo]

I had an 01 and if memory serves me correctly it used FIPG. My 07 uses an actual gasket.

 

[Malleus]

The answer is both. It came off the assembly line with FIPG, but you can use a gasket if you want. The decision was made at the factory based on cost, not performance.

 

[Brummel]

2001 HDJ100 with 330K km (200K miles) on the clock. Unclear when or if ever the transmission was serviced by previous owner(s).

I called the local Toyota dealer and was quoted 380 euro (about the same in USD) for parts and labor. This guy said something strange though - he said there isn't a gasket to be replaced, so they would be using "manufacturer sealant" or something along those lines. But when I look at non-OEM transmission service kits there's always a gasket included.

So my question is - is there a gasket or not? Also, does the price quoted seem reasonable? Any relevant comments appreciated.

Not sure if understood correctly. But If you don't know if there has been done a ATM service, better leave it as is. Normally, the ATM is service free. The problem is, imagine your atm had no service on the ATM, then the fluid is well "married" with the valves etc. If you change or even flush, the "married" oil goes out and fresh one in. The problem might occur, that the old ATM was working fine and then it will not. Shifting gears will take longer, going N might slip...stuff like this.
New oil is clean and your used ATM is not used to it. Sounds strange but that's how it is. My advice, if the color is fine, still red and looking good on the dip stick, leave it! If you really want to do the job, JUST drain the oil and measure how much you drained and fill exactly the same amount of new oil into the dip stick! Thus, you'll have a mixture of old and new which is fine!!!

Re the gasket, I don't get it. There's a standard gasket for the screw only.

 

[Mike NXP]

2001 HDJ100 with 330K km (200K miles) on the clock. Unclear when or if ever the transmission was serviced by previous owner(s).

I called the local Toyota dealer and was quoted 380 euro (about the same in USD) for parts and labor. This guy said something strange though - he said there isn't a gasket to be replaced, so they would be using "manufacturer sealant" or something along those lines. But when I look at non-OEM transmission service kits there's always a gasket included.

So my question is - is there a gasket or not? Also, does the price quoted seem reasonable? Any relevant comments appreciated.

I'm not sure why a gasket would be mentioned. Correct me if I'm wrong but all of the times I take my Toyota into the dealer they've told me a machine hooks into my cooling lines and exchanges the fluid that way. No dropping of transmission pan.

Not sure if understood correctly. But If you don't know if there has been done a ATM service, better leave it as is. Normally, the ATM is service free. The problem is, imagine your atm had no service on the ATM, then the fluid is well "married" with the valves etc. If you change or even flush, the "married" oil goes out and fresh one in. The problem might occur, that the old ATM was working fine and then it will not. Shifting gears will take longer, going N might slip...stuff like this.
New oil is clean and your used ATM is not used to it. Sounds strange but that's how it is. My advice, if the color is fine, still red and looking good on the dip stick, leave it! If you really want to do the job, JUST drain the oil and measure how much you drained and fill exactly the same amount of new oil into the dip stick! Thus, you'll have a mixture of old and new which is fine!!!

Re the gasket, I don't get it. There's a standard gasket for the screw only.

This is sort of true but don't let this old myth fool you. Has this ever happened to you or just rumors?

The first step would be to inspect fluid if possible and determine how burnt it may be, like you mentioned, and hope it's still got some color left.

I've owned many many vehicles , most of them are beaters off craigslist and they have all benefited from a transmission fluid flush when possible, even old cars with burnt up black fluid. To say it's better to not change your fluid and just let it be is not a good idea.

I'm also not a fan of the drain out some fluid and top off with fresh fluid concept, mixing up 200k old fluid with fresh isn't ideal.




So to RockDriver, do you have a dipstick on your rig? Can you inspect the color of the fluid? And what do you mean about a gasket, is the mechanic planning to drop the transmisson pan? IDK if that's necessary but I'm not an experience mechanic.

 

[RockDriver]

I'm not sure why a gasket would be mentioned. Correct me if I'm wrong but all of the times I take my Toyota into the dealer they've told me a machine hooks into my cooling lines and exchanges the fluid that way. No dropping of transmission pan.

So to RockDriver, do you have a dipstick on your rig? Can you inspect the color of the fluid? And what do you mean about a gasket, is the mechanic planning to drop the transmisson pan? IDK if that's necessary but I'm not an experience mechanic.

Well, from what I understand, transmission service involves changing the fluid and the filter, so in order to access the filter you have to drop the pan. I called my local Toyota dealer and that's basically what I've been told. Regarding the gasket, I think Malleus comment above makes sense.

EDIT: I checked my transmission dipstick and the fluid is red. Does that mean I should wait until it turns black or whatever before doing the service?
That dipstick is long as hell, I was struggling to read the level properly, but I'm gonna try again tomorrow.

There's an additional concern - if I need to top it up I have no idea what fluid is in there aside from the fact that it's red. Is it Dexron II? Is it Dexron III? What brand? Can they be mixed? No idea, thus I thought simply doing the service would be best.

 

[Mike NXP]

Well, from what I understand, transmission service involves changing the fluid and the filter, so in order to access the filter you have to drop the pan.

Do some searching on the forums. I'm not super experienced with the transmission but I don't think there is a filter that needs to be serviced. I'll try to search for you

EDIT: I checked my transmission dipstick and the fluid is red. Does that mean I should wait until it turns black or whatever before doing the service?
That dipstick is long as hell, I was struggling to read the level properly, but I'm gonna try again tomorrow.

This is a good sign. NO don't wait until it goes burnt. Service it now and be good for another 30-50k miles. The fact that it's not burnt will alleviate any concern that a fluid change may cause some issues.

I think you also want to hit a certain temperature in regards to checking the level properly, but at least for now the goal was to check fluid condition , smell , color

There's an additional concern - if I need to top it up I have no idea what fluid is in there aside from the fact that it's red. Is it Dexron II? Is it Dexron III? What brand? Can they be mixed? No idea, thus I thought simply doing the service would be best.

Is the vehicle new to you? Are you having any current transmission issues? If there are no current problems don't do anything now. Just do the full fluid exchange like you were planning to do and then you'll know what fluid is in there


Dex 2 and 3 are older fluids right? I use Dex2 in my 1980s toyota. I believe the new Mobil 1 ATF is best bet for our rigs.


If I were you I would
- Search the forums for procedure and try to make sense of a filter change and if its needed or not
- Search again and find out what fluid people recommend using

 

[Brummel]

Good exchange here

Listen, the oil filter in the pan last usually lasting forever. Honestly they are super durable. I would not open the pan.

Unfortunately with just draining the oil, you have no chance to get all out. Impossible. Hence you have to flush the entire system.

There's no right or wrong. If I would be you, oil is red, the feeling between fingers is fine, no smell, no shifting issues, leave it!

Re fluid, I only use OEM except for differentials. I use Liquy Moly. For ATM it would be Toyota oil ATF T-IV / 5 Liter canisters available

Just to add, here in Switzerland, the army have/had lots of Diesel J100. All of them are equipped with a special towing system with air pressure support. It increases the max towing weight up to 6 tons!
Those J100 which come on the market to sell, their oil is black and I would not recommend buying such car. But just to say, in normal condition, the ATM ist fine also in normal frequent towing conditions up to allowed 3.5 tons. No worries.

 

[baltistyle]

To alleviate concerns with this type of maintenance, many people will remove and replace 3 quarts at a time and do that every couple weeks. The process is super easy and the information is here on the site. If you truly want the filter done, the only choice is a full fluid replacement. I wouldn’t worry about that either since you said your fluid is in good condition and your transmission is fine. Always better to do preventive maintenance than expensive repairs. In my opinion, the gasket is the easiest for most repair shops because applying the factory sealant requires a very clean surface. If you are going to Toyota, they will do it correctly, you’d hope

 

[2001LC]

AT pan sealed with FIPG 98-02. Gasket, in 03-07 5spd (4spd w/OD). In USA 100 series.

Drain and fill is the recommended procedure. Issue with D&F, in a used vehicle or shop maintained. We've no idea as to what AT fluid was used. So many use cheap bulk AT fluid.

I do full 12 qt flushes. Solves many AT shifting issues. I also set level to spec ATF temp:
98-02 Dex III, Toy III or my favorite Mobil 1 Multi Vehicle (MV) ATF. Or my second choice: Mobil MV full synthetic ATF. ATF temp 158 to 176F
03 Toyota IV ATF (whatever that is, IDK). Or my choice: Mobil MV full synthetic ATF. ATF temp 158 to 176F
04-up Toyota WS ATF. Or my choice: Mobil MV full synthetic ATF. ATF temp 97 to 115f.

No filter in AT. Just a pick-up tube with metal screen. AT Pan, has magnets, lying in bottom of it.

 

[Malleus]

^this

Draining the pan several times only empties the pan. Ask anyone who has opened the transmission how much oil spills out of an "empty" transmission. It's not insignificant.

 

[baltistyle]

^this

Draining the pan several times only empties the pan. Ask anyone who has opened the transmission how much oil spills out of an "empty" transmission. It's not insignificant.

Yes, of course it only empties the pan, my point was that after doing this many times you have effectively replaced the transmission fluid. I know it’s not as good as what 2001 mentioned and a full flush, but if concerned, that would be the way to go in my opinion. Then, when confident all is good with that oil, a full flush can be done without that same fear.

Me, i’ve done it both ways and quite honestly know that new fluid doesn’t ruin a transmission so a full flush is always on the table.

Great info in that there is no filter in these. I’ve never looked at or pondered that info, nor had to reseal a trans pan.

 

[Malleus]

It takes 20 minutes to flush the entire transmission circuit. Why wouldn't you do it? Filling only a part of the total circuit just contaminates the new fluid with the old. You're kidding yourself if you think this is cost effective.

 

[2001LC]

D&F a 25% of a glass of sewage water, stir and repeat 4 times. Will you drink it! That the issue with D&F, if ever has been D&F with unknown fluid.

 

[baltistyle]

Guys, I totally get it. This is for those people that believe in the myth of never changing transmission fluid when they think the new fluid will kill their transmission. it’s offering a slow way, not the perfect way not the most effective way not the quickest way.

Hope some of you are enjoying the snow today.

 

[RockDriver]

It takes 20 minutes to flush the entire transmission circuit. Why wouldn't you do it? Filling only a part of the total circuit just contaminates the new fluid with the old. You're kidding yourself if you think this is cost effective.

So to be clear, this process completely empties the existing fluid, correct? How exactly is it done? Do you need some special equipment or expertise?

I watched this video, but the guy only took off the sump and even then he bent it:

Replacing the fluid entirely is what I'd like to do, since I have no idea what the previous owner used. Right now this is what the color of the fluid looks like:

Also, I've checked the dipstick level (cold engine) and it seems a bit over the highest notch. There are 4 notches on the dipstick, so it's a bit confusing, where exactly should the level be?

 

[2001LC]

Depends on year. Yours like calls for Toy II or III or Dexron II or III and has a w/dipstick. So I'd use 12qts of Mobil 1 MV ATF, and 1 drain plug washer (gasket) (torque 15ft-lbf.

Scored 00LX w/557,333 Km, Emerald! No start condition. needs a ton of work. No Problem!

Differentials and transfer case gear lube. I found the rear input of front differential weeping a bit. So I add some AT-205. After driving for minimum of 5 hours. I cleaned (de grease) the area, than drove some more. Leak did not return. While work on front diff replacing side seals, I do loose...

forum.ih8mud.com

Check out my master link below in signature line. Find Transmissions with in it, for more links.

 

[Malleus]

^this. @2001LC has a step by step with photos. See that.

You do not need special tools, but you will need a gallon container, marked in quarts (or litres) two lengths of tubing, about 2 feet long each and Ø12mm ID (I think; it's either 10 or 12, I can't remember which) and a transmission fill funnel. A helper is nice, to start and stop the engine, but you can do this solo if need be.

 

[kuelblaz]

FWIW, Unless a transmission has been regularly flushed since it's birth, I would not recommend flushing a transmission. I have made that mistake twice, thinking I was "getting it all cleaned out."
The first time, many years ago, was with my 1996 Honda Accord (200K), which was meticulously taken to dealer for service right on schedule since new (Mom gave me all her service records w purchase). Not having any prior experience, I took it specifically to get tranny flushed and filled.
Almost immediately, the transmission started acting up. It calmed down some after putting some miles on it, but it was never the same smooth-shifting car after the flush. The second time, I got a significant education from a tranny shop owner on why I shouldn't have had the vehicle flushed. I wish I still had pics, but he showed me my valve body, specifically the wear patterns caused by material build-up in the ends of the fluid passages, particularly in the areas where check balls reside.
Fluid dynamics is not my thing, but what I got out of the conversation was that all wear, which includes the build up of microscopic pieces of clutch material (and some metal), causes distortions of the fluid flow and fluid pressures inside the valve body and transmission case thereby slowly creating abnormal flow and pressure patterns. This is all part of the normal wear and tear during a transmission's service life. However, once the tranny has been subject to the altered fluid flow and pressures for a significant period of time, the sudden removal of all of the microscopic material build-up (which can be significant as mileage increases), suddenly alters the fluid flow and fluid pressures with the effect of changing the timing and pressure thresholds at which gear-transition events occur.
This could (and in my experince, did) result in a rough shifting transmission with a significant risk of accelerated wear and potential damage from improperly-timed or over-pressurized piston/actuator cycles.

After those experiences and the mentoring I received, and since I never buy new cars, the only time I will flush a tranny is after I've completely rebuilt it and am able to do flush it regularly ... myself .. with my own fluid. Otherwise, I swap fluid as others have described on this site in many different posts, which in my opinion does not significantly disturb the wear build-up. Personally, I prefer the 'disconnecting-the-return-line' method, but really the idea is to keep the tranny filled with relatively fresh fluid. I have done this for years on transmissions with up to 400K plus miles and never had a problem.

Just my two-cents ...
K.

 

[RoguesPierre]

I'm not sure why a gasket would be mentioned. Correct me if I'm wrong but all of the times I take my Toyota into the dealer they've told me a machine hooks into my cooling lines and exchanges the fluid that way. No dropping of transmission pan.





This is sort of true but don't let this old myth fool you. Has this ever happened to you or just rumors?

The first step would be to inspect fluid if possible and determine how burnt it may be, like you mentioned, and hope it's still got some color left.

I've owned many many vehicles , most of them are beaters off craigslist and they have all benefited from a transmission fluid flush when possible, even old cars with burnt up black fluid. To say it's better to not change your fluid and just let it be is not a good idea.

I'm also not a fan of the drain out some fluid and top off with fresh fluid concept, mixing up 200k old fluid with fresh isn't ideal.




So to RockDriver, do you have a dipstick on your rig? Can you inspect the color of the fluid? And what do you mean about a gasket, is the mechanic planning to drop the transmisson pan? IDK if that's necessary but I'm not an experience mechanic.

I need to update my pervious thread related to this but... I was getting ATF overheat light. Nobody would diagnose it becuase unless you drove it around and stressed it, no issue. I found a mechanic who did just that. Swapped out AT Cooler seemed better but he tested it more and the issue returned. I think he drained not flushed it, kept old fluid.. It was gunk. Apparently ATF also cools through the radiator, he bypassed that with another 2nd cooler. BTW radiator was fairly new. No issues since then. So my experience would indicate it's a myth. But keep save the old fluid just in case.