Transmission issues - please help! (1 Viewer)

[LouieTiger]

2015 Land Cruiser with 125k miles.

Took the cruiser to a Land Cruiser shop in Houston. Did the 120k mile services there instead of dealership. Transmission fluid was part of the job.

When I picked it up, it would “slip” when u-turning under the freeway at speeds of 15-20 mph. I would idle through the u-turn and it would downshift and then when no cars coming, I would accelerate from 15 mph to get on the feeder road. RPM’s would rev up but it wouldn’t go. I stopped accelerating and tried again and it would be ok. The problem would not happen from first gear when starting from a stop.

I theorized it was too low on fluid. I took it back and he double checked it and said it was low. Adding another quart fixed that issue!

But, then, when it was cold (relative term in Houston this summer), it would “bounce” or “jump” from 2nd to 3rd gear when going 20 mph or so in the neighborhood. It did that going uphill especially noticeably.

Fast forward, I take it to Toyota and ask that they do an entire tranny fluid replacement. They hook up to the cooler line and push out the old and fill with new. I ask them specifically to double check level because of the issues above. Paperwork shows 13 quarts of fluid but that could be what the write up shows regardless of actual used?

Now, the same “jumping” or “bouncing” still happens when she is not warmed up. I cannot make her do it once hot/operating temps. The u-turn scenario has never come back.

Thoughts or suggestions on what I should do? I’ve watched the videos posted on here about getting the temperature to 110 and overflowing down to a trickle. I have not tried that myself.

Looking for suggestions from the best Internet forum on earth!

 

[xeuxaz]

Definitely follow the warm up procedure and confirm it has enough fluid, and not too much. Next up, I would pull the battery and let the learning for the trans reset.

 

[daneo]

Is the fluid from the first change confirmed to be Toyota WS fluid? If a non-standard fluid was used, that could cause issues in shift quality.

Was the 120k service the first transmission fluid service? There are tales from the internet that the clutch material that wears into the fluid itself is an important factor in maintaining shift quality after a fluid service. It's recommended to only drain and fill and a complete system "flush" is not recommended, as some of the clutch material should be left behind. I don't know how to retroactively fix that issue. As mentioned above, resetting the transmission's learned values might help. I'd recommend a tech stream or 2-way OBDII tool over just removing the battery cable.

 

[bigredmachine]

13 qt is about right for a flush, we would use 12 since thats what used to be in a case when we did a flush. i would dump 11 in the machine and keep the other qt for a final fluid level chack and adjust as needed. make sure that they used ws fluid on the first service, there are universal options but thats not recommended by toyota.

 

[LouieTiger]

Is the fluid from the first change confirmed to be Toyota WS fluid? If a non-standard fluid was used, that could cause issues in shift quality.

Was the 120k service the first transmission fluid service? There are tales from the internet that the clutch material that wears into the fluid itself is an important factor in maintaining shift quality after a fluid service. It's recommended to only drain and fill and a complete system "flush" is not recommended, as some of the clutch material should be left behind. I don't know how to retroactively fix that issue. As mentioned above, resetting the transmission's learned values might help. I'd recommend a tech stream or 2-way OBDII tool over just removing the battery cable.

Yes on Toyota WT fluid. Only 4 quarts on the first fluid job. Just the pan, filter, gasket, etc.

I did try disconnecting the battery and it is better. I think the issue is that she’s low on fluid. Once warm, she is perfect. Only when 80 degrees at start up does she have the “bouncing” issues…I think it wants to upshift/lower rpm’s but it doesn’t make up its mind and goes up and down.

 

[LouieTiger]

Definitely follow the warm up procedure and confirm it has enough fluid, and not too much. Next up, I would pull the battery and let the learning for the trans reset.

I am going to do this myself 10/8 weekend.

I’ve watched a few videos and have the service manual printed out for this…

I am 99% sure it’s 1/2 quart low and that’s all it is. Once warm, it’s OK.

The thermal expansion on 13 quarts from 80 degrees to 120 degrees is less than 1 quart. My hope is it’s not filled enough.

I don’t know how Toyota dealer measures the new fluid when using the machine that cycles it through the fluid cooler. If they put 13 in, I wouldn’t think I’d have the problems I’m experiencing when “cold”.


It’s 95 today in Houston. High 70’s this morning when I left at 7:30 for work. It “bounced” on the feeder road to get on i10 when going 45 mph but it did not slip otherwise…. It is better after resetting computer. But not fixed 100%

 

[04UZJ100]

Stop driving it immediately.

Do the fluid check procedure and top off as needed.

 

[Fisher23]

When I do mine:

Put it up on the 4 ramps level.
Put a little too much fluid it (without running it).
Undo the level drain plug (there are 2 plugs, drain and level drain plug).
Let it drain into the pan.
Run the engine until the transmission gets to temp. As it warms up the trans fluid rises and drains out through the level drain plug.
When trans is to temp, put the plug back in and THEN turn off the engine.

Done.

The temp can checked with OBii and an app, or infrared gun on pan. The OBii is best.

CORRECTION MADE : (Put in Plug and then turn off engine).

 

[LouieTiger]

Stop driving it immediately.

Do the fluid check procedure and top off as needed.

I’ve been letting it warm up before driving it… I didn’t this morning but once she bounced, I let off the gas and the transmission behaved OK.

 

[LouieTiger]

When I do mine:

Put it up on the 4 ramps level.
Put a little too much fluid it (without running it).
Undo the level drain plug (there are 2 plugs, drain and level drain plug).
Let it drain into the pan.
Run the engine until the transmission gets to temp. As it warms up the trans fluid rises and drains out through the level drain plug.
When trans is to temp, turn off engine and put the level drain plug back in.

Done.

The temp can checked with OBii and an app, or infrared gun on pan. The OBii is best.

Thank you!

 

[LouieTiger]

When I do mine:

Put it up on the 4 ramps level.
Put a little too much fluid it (without running it).
Undo the level drain plug (there are 2 plugs, drain and level drain plug).
Let it drain into the pan.
Run the engine until the transmission gets to temp. As it warms up the trans fluid rises and drains out through the level drain plug.
When trans is to temp, turn off engine and put the level drain plug back in.

Done.

The temp can checked with OBii and an app, or infrared gun on pan. The OBii is best.

The video and FSM say it will be pouring out and once it slows down from a constant stream to a heavy trickle, that is the level needed.

Do you concur?

 

[04UZJ100]

I’ve been letting it warm up before driving it… I didn’t this morning but once she bounced, I let off the gas and the transmission behaved OK.

Driving a car with known fluid level issues (high or low) is a TERRIBLE idea.

 

[LouieTiger]

Driving a car with known fluid level issues (high or low) is a TERRIBLE idea.

Fair point. It’s not known that it’s low, that’s my theory on why it is bouncing or slipping

I paid the Toyota dealership to replace all of the fluid.

I am driving it to them right now to get them to double check and figure out what’s happening. I let it heat up before driving it. It does not do this problem once warm.

 

[Fisher23]

The video and FSM say it will be pouring out and once it slows down from a constant stream to a heavy trickle, that is the level needed.

Do you concur?

Sort of but not exactly.

As the temperature of the transmission rises the fuel level goes up and out the level drain.

When the transmission gets to the correct temperature for the measurement, then the engine is shut off and the plug put back in.

Now it will sort of get down to a trickle BUT you do not want to keep increasing the transmission temp as the fluid will just continue to raise and pour out.

I forget the cutoff temperature, (I would need to look it up).

 

[LouieTiger]

Sort of but not exactly.

As the temperature of the transmission rises the fuel level goes up and out the level drain.

When the transmission gets to the correct temperature for the measurement, then the engine is shut off and the plug put back in.

Now it will sort of get down to a trickle BUT you do not want to keep increasing the transmission temp as the fluid will just continue to raise and pour out.

I forget the cutoff temperature, (I would need to look it up).

Thank you!

FSM says 109-118

I’m at Toyota right now…. We’ll see what they say.

 

[Fisher23]

Correct. 109 to 118 F

 

[Zill]

Sort of but not exactly.

As the temperature of the transmission rises the fuel level goes up and out the level drain.

When the transmission gets to the correct temperature for the measurement, then the engine is shut off and the plug put back in.

Now it will sort of get down to a trickle BUT you do not want to keep increasing the transmission temp as the fluid will just continue to raise and pour out.

I forget the cutoff temperature, (I would need to look it up).

I thought you checked the level (once it’s up to temp) with the vehicle still running and the transmission fluid circulating in the tranny? The reason why I question this, is that a ton of excess fluid drains back in the pan once the car is turned off, thus giving you an inaccurate drain (too much fluid has drained out then) if you turn the vehicle off without putting in the plug.

 

[Fisher23]

I thought you checked the level (once it’s up to temp) with the vehicle still running and the transmission fluid circulating in the tranny? The reason why I question this, is that a ton of excess fluid drains back in the pan once the car is turned off, thus giving you an inaccurate drain (too much fluid has drained out then) if you turn the vehicle off without putting in the plug.

Correct .. Yes you put the plug in and then turn it off.. I'll make the correction above.

 

[LouieTiger]

Update…. And it’s not good.

Toyota kept her overnight and this morning at cooler temps (80 in Houston), checked the levels and she was 3 quarts low on transmission fluid.

WTF Toyota! I can’t believe (yes, I can) they they would miss on the amount of fluid by 25%. The thermal expansion from 80 to 150 degrees is not 25%. More like 5%.

Frustrated that I drove it for a week with low fluid levels but glad they found the problem and glad they fixed their issue. The manager called me apologizing…

Chalk this one up for “I should have done it myself”. I would have followed the FSM to a T and done it right. I assumed paying the dealer $285 to do it would make sure it was done correctly and per Toyota specs.

 

[xeuxaz]

Update…. And it’s not good.

Toyota kept her overnight and this morning at cooler temps (80 in Houston), checked the levels and she was 3 quarts low on transmission fluid.

WTF Toyota! I can’t believe (yes, I can) they they would miss on the amount of fluid by 25%. The thermal expansion from 80 to 150 degrees is not 25%. More like 5%.

Frustrated that I drove it for a week with low fluid levels but glad they found the problem and glad they fixed their issue. The manager called me apologizing…

Chalk this one up for “I should have done it myself”. I would have followed the FSM to a T and done it right. I assumed paying the dealer $285 to do it would make sure it was done correctly and per Toyota specs.

Any word on how it runs after being properly topped off?