Transfer case questions

[tiomateo]

I should also backtrack a bit and say that I’m bummed you are having a negative experience with your first Land Cruiser.

I checked with my team (I did not see your vehicle personally or meet you) who handled your inspection.
Overall from your inspection notes it seems like this vehicle is in pretty poor mechanical condition and didn’t have any service history.
My technician also let me know when he checked your fluids the transfer case was almost empty and he filled it up.

This is a good example of why I recommend having a vehicle inspected by a knowledgeable individual or business BEFORE purchase instead of after if you are new to the platform.

@cruisermatt thanks yeah I learned the hard way. But I still want to get it driveable so I can get it to LA… I was about to have this other shop do a bunch of work but now I’m questioning everything after they took two weeks to tell me the t case is bad and that I should prioritize that over everything. I’d love to swing by and pick your brain about it if you have time today or tomorrow. I’m in the neighborhood.

 

[2001LC]

Based on what I'm reading above. No issues driving before reseal. Than 90% chance, reseal service assembly issue created. ~80% of service I do, involves correcting what other hands touched. Much of which causes damage, if not corrected soon after.

But we must consider, the TC had a leak. What I don't see, is any notes on TC fluid level, When leak found during deep dive after purchase inspection (API) or when seal replaced.
*** The number one reason, we are concerned with leaks. Is running fluid to low, causing damage. So was damage there?

We must always give shop, that did last serviced. A chance to correct any issue, they created. Mistake happen!

But, they're saying they didn't cause a TC issue:

So I'd have a gearbox specialty shop, give second opinion. One that rebuilds them. We've a great one in Denver. You should be able to find one, within a few 100 miles of you. But keep in mind: Without talking apart, they'll be limited on the what and why.

Option one:
Have TC rebuild. If they find, issue created in assembling wrong during seal job. Then, shop that caused issue, will cover the cost.

Option two:
Get a new or used TC. Have it installed by shop you trust. If used. make sure to do your homework (PPI). Just like when buying a used vehicle. The PPI is so important and so valuable. But understand: Even in a PPI or API, we can't find it all. But still, they reduce surprises. You can then have, old TC tron down and inspected for cause.


FWIW: To those thinking about a TC reseal, in 98-02. Try a few simple things first:

1. Check the TC/AT breather hose and breather valve. WHY: 98-02 have a design issue, that was corrected in the 03-up with the new 5 spd A/T. TC & A/T breather line, comes off each and connects to a "Y" adapter near back of A/T. Then a single ~2 foot line, runs from "Y" to breather at front of A/T. If A/T or TC overfilled. OR Fluids mixed (different brands) within either, which may result in excessive foaming. The 2' line of breather after "Y", often becomes clogged. This can also result in fluid from one (TC or A/T) entering other through the "Y". Clogged breather or level to high, builds excessive pressure within the cases of either or both.
2. Flush all fluid from TC & A/T. Replace with recommended and set level properly. (98-02 A/T I use 12 qts of Mobil 1 MV ATF, 98-07 TC I use Mobil 1 75W-90). Note: (140w in cooler climates, builds to much pressure in TC)
3. Optional: In addition to above. Add AT-205 in gear lube.

To date. I've stop every TC, A/T and differential leak. By correcting fluid and breathers.
With two exception:

• Most all front differential side (FDS (AKA CV)) seals. That were not properly installed or replaced or damaged with service of new FDS.
• Rear axle seal leaks. Whereas, may be breather related. It still must be replaced and the axle bearings. Since bearing become contaminated.

 

[tiomateo]

Based on what I'm reading above. No issues driving before reseal. Than 90% chance, reseal service assembly issue created. ~80% of service I do, involves correcting what other hands touched. Much of which causes damage, if not corrected soon after.

But we must consider, the TC had a leak. What I don't see, is any notes on TC fluid level, When leak found during deep dive after purchase inspection (API) or when seal replaced.
*** The number one reason, we are concerned with leaks. Is running fluid to low, causing damage. So was damage there?

We must always give shop, that did last serviced. A chance to correct any issue, they created. Mistake happen!

But, they're saying they didn't cause a TC issue:

So I'd have a gearbox specialty shop, give second opinion. One that rebuilds them. We've a great one in Denver. You should be able to find one, within a few 100 miles of you. But keep in mind: Without talking apart, they'll be limited on the what and why.

Option one:
Have TC rebuild. If they find, issue created in assembling wrong during seal job. Then, shop that caused issue, will cover the cost.

Option two:
Get a new or used TC. Have it installed by shop you trust. If used. make sure to do your homework (PPI). Just like when buying a used vehicle. The PPI is so important and so valuable. But understand: Even in a PPI or API, we can't find it all. But still, they reduce surprises. You can then have, old TC tron down and inspected for cause.


FWIW: To those thinking about a TC reseal, in 98-02. Try a few simple things first:

1. Check the TC/AT breather hose and breather valve. WHY: 98-02 have a design issue, that was corrected in the 03-up with the new 5 spd A/T. TC & A/T breather line, comes off each and connects to a "Y" adapter near back of A/T. Then a single ~2 foot line, runs from "Y" to breather at front of A/T. If A/T or TC overfilled. OR Fluids mixed (different brands) within either, which may result in excessive foaming. The 2' line of breather after "Y", often becomes clogged. This can also result in fluid from one (TC or A/T) entering other through the "Y". Clogged breather or level to high, builds excessive pressure within the cases of either or both.
2. Flush all fluid from TC & A/T. Replace with recommended and set level properly. (98-02 A/T I use 12 qts of Mobil 1 MV ATF, 98-07 TC I use Mobil 1 75W-90). Note: (140w in cooler climates, builds to much pressure in TC)
3. Optional: In addition to above. Add AT-205 in gear lube.

To date. I've stop every TC, A/T and differential leak. By correcting fluid and breathers.
With two exception:

• Most all front differential side (FDS (AKA CV)) seals. That were not properly installed or replaced or damaged with service of new FDS.
• Rear axle seal leaks. Whereas, may be breather related. It still must be replaced and the axle bearings. Since bearing become contaminated.

@2001LC thanks so much, y’all all so detailed. I love it. UPDATE: I picked up the truck from its current shop. I do hear a rattle that I did not notice before. It’s not a grinding perse. Just sounds like something is loose. I would like to get a 2nd opinion from a transmission place. @cruisermatt I know you guys don’t have time to work on the truck, but do you have a rec for a transmission place in town that could take a look at it?

 

[cruisermatt]

@2001LC thanks so much, y’all all so detailed. I love it. UPDATE: I picked up the truck from its current shop. I do hear a rattle that I did not notice before. It’s not a grinding perse. Just sounds like something is loose. I would like to get a 2nd opinion from a transmission place. @cruisermatt I know you guys don’t have time to work on the truck, but do you have a rec for a transmission place in town that could take a look at it?

Unfortunatley I don't, we use offsite reman we exchance and ship out when we have to replace/rebuild automatics, that being said your transmission is probably fine - they very rarely go bad in these trucks. You're welcome to bring it by and have my team look at it just please email or call the office ahead of time. We are going into the weekend so it would have to be next week.
And we absolutely have time to work on new customer's vehicles, we just schedule our work 1-3 months out depending on the project. This works for some customers and doesn't work for others, we try our best but obviously can't accomodate everyone

 

[Mdej3]

@cruisermatt would be the way to go if He can fit you in and He's in the area, so that is a huge plus.

Worst case scenario, We can help over at @TampaCruisers in Tampa, FL. We're not far and about 3-4 weeks out for any service work ATM.

While a bad transfer is unusual, it is possible if it was dry. Probably one from @cruiseroutfit directly or rebuild a local RCY one with @cruiseroutfit parts seems like the best option, you can always upgrade your inner gearing while at it if you're planning on keeping her for a while and bigger tires are in the horizon, for the price that shop is quoting you.
Sorry you're having a bad experience with your new Cruiser, they are amazing, but this particular case looks to be isolated due to lack of proper maintenance. Rest assured that if you put some love and PROPER parts on her, the next 20 years of ownership will be a breeze.

Manny @ Tampa Cruisers.

 

[cruisermatt]

I would not purchase a transfer case before getting a 2nd opinion. We also sell them so we can absolutely get you squared away if that’s what you actually need - but I doubt it.

 

[cruisermatt]

For some closure, we were able to get the truck in today for another look, unfortunately it came in on a tow truck with a no-start.
(I was on vacation during his initial appointment so I had not seen the truck previously)
My guys got it running and as expected, the transfer case is most likely fine other then the previously noted loose output bearing and oil leak. We did note the new noise that was stated by customer and other shop but we are thinking CV or U joint or something along those lines, we did no further diagnostics though.
Both the owner and I are pretty sure the other shop just wanted to scare him off - understandable this truck needs a lot and these can be risky for a shop to take on. There are more professional ways to decline a customer though.

 

[Mdej3]

For some closure, we were able to get the truck in today for another look, unfortunately it came in on a tow truck with a no-start.
(I was on vacation during his initial appointment so I had not seen the truck previously)
My guys got it running and as expected, the transfer case is most likely fine other then the previously noted loose output bearing and oil leak. We did note the noise that was stated by customer and other shop but we are thinking CV or U joint or something along those lines, we did no further diagnostics though.
Both the owner and I are pretty sure the other shop just wanted to scare him off - understandable this truck needs a lot and these can be risky for a shop to take on. There are more professional ways to decline a customer though.


View attachment 3832849

 

[tiomateo]

yep. I’m so glad I didn’t have the other shop work on it or pull the trigger on a TC. Thanks to @cruisermatt I now have a full, clear picture of the reality of this truck. It needs more work than I can afford and is a product of an emotional decision that was made too quickly. I will be posting the truck to the classifieds of Mud and hope it can find a good home to someone with more time and skills to put into it. Bittersweet. Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this thread and the others I posted.

 

[tiomateo]

UPDATE: Against better judgement, I have been unable to bring myself to get rid of this truck. But I finally figured out the noise. Turns out it was coming from the transfer case after all. We knew it had play and was weeping in the rear output, but thought the noise was coming from more of the front of the vehicle. However, I found a shop to lift it and run it in the air, and we were able to quickly see that the noise was coming straight from the rear output bearing (see video) Also we noticed a chisel mark near the rear output... (see photo)

I still would like to fix this.. but it's beyond my DIY capabilities, and I have recieved some wildly different quotes on it. Anyone have a rough idea of what to pay for a t-case rear bearing and seal job? And other "while youre in theres" to try to do at the same time?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

UPDATE: Against better judgement, I have been unable to bring myself to get rid of this truck. But I finally figured out the noise. Turns out it was coming from the transfer case after all. We knew it had play and was weeping in the rear output, but thought the noise was coming from more of the front of the vehicle. However, I found a shop to lift it and run it in the air, and we were able to quickly see that the noise was coming straight from the rear output bearing (see video) Also we noticed a chisel mark near the rear output... (see photo)

I still would like to fix this.. but it's beyond my DIY capabilities, and I have recieved some wildly different quotes on it. Anyone have a rough idea of what to pay for a t-case rear bearing and seal job? And other "while youre in theres" to try to do at the same time?




View attachment 3852671

$350-1500-$3000. That’s the range from rear seal/bearing with only pulling the tail housing or a full R&R with all new bearings/seals in the entire case, or a complete a new t-case assembly.

 

[cruisermatt]

I think we typically charge 4-4.5 hours for that job - So about $750-900 with parts/fluid? We certainly have done that one serveral times here andshould have prewritten quotes. That being said, I wouldn't say that is a typical noise for that bearing at all from my experience

 

[nissanh]

I have replaced the bearing and seal and made a thread in this forum. It was my first time doing it and was a success. Worth giving a shot!

 

[tiomateo]

I have replaced the bearing and seal and made a thread in this forum. It was my first time doing it and was a success. Worth giving a shot!

Thanks @nissanh i found that thread, very detailed and super helpful.