Tranny output shaft issue/excessive wear?

[emac]

Hi all,
Lots of rain here in SC and I had plenty of time to tear down and reseal my tranny and transfer case. I drained a lot of fluid out of the tranny and almost zero out of the transfer case. So, I guess it was due for some work.

All seals looked dry and brittle. When I pulled the nose (front drive section) off of the TC the needle bearing must have been frozen as it fell apart. That section of the TC was packed with gunk. I guess the front seal was so bad that it let dirt and mud get in. Need to get a new bearing.

My big concern is the tranny output shaft. It looks like the shaft has some wear and I just wanted to to know if this looks excessive or normal? The splines are impacted/worn but don't appear cracked. What would you guys do? I really wasn't planning on taking the gears apart, and that may be above my pay grade, so it may ned to go to a shop to repair this. Of course I noticed it after it was put back together and painted!

 

[Ian Macdonald]

I'd tear down the tranny and see what fun is revealed. Just finished refurbing my tranny and t-case - a bit of a pita. lad it's done now and it wasn't that expensive. What price do you put on peace of mind? Dunno, but now I can worry about other bits, like the starter, wiring, theft when I'm out in the woods...

 

[emac]

I already opened it up and changed all the seals and gaskets. I just don't know if I feel comfortable pulling the gears apart. It looks like the shaft is several hundred bucks.

 

[Aussie 25]

Its not to worn, if you can put anew input gear on it, put it back together god for a nother 100000mils. All you have to do is every6 months make sure the nut on the main shaft is kept tight.

 

[emac]

Good point Aussie. Thank you. I would guess the input gear is worn more than the shaft, as it is probably softer metal. A new one might tighten things up.

I am learning that the it is very important on these rigs to keep those shaft nuts tight. All of mine have been "barely" tight.

 

[SteveH]

You're a long way from blowing out the splines. I would run it just like that and keep the nut tight.

 

[Pin_Head]

It is normal wear, but it is gettting to the point where it might fail if more than half of the spline is worn away. I would look around and see if you could get a good used one locally.

 

[emac]

Thanks for the reply's. I would say 1/2 the splines are worn away. I may check around and see what options I can come up with. My gut tells me to fix it.

Is it a common failure?

 

[Pin_Head]

Yes. It is why Toyota changed the output shaft to 19 splines some time in the 80s.

 

[Living in the Past]

Very common on the 16 spline four speeds. If it's half worn out now keep in mind it will fail before the other half fails. The more play the faster is will fail. Every time you take your foot off the gas the direction of force changes. Pulling it real simple try hitting a nail with a hammer when it a fraction of a inch away. Then move the hamme a couple of inches away. The larger the gap the harder the force. For ths reason the rate it's failing continues to speed up with more wear. The four speed I installed in my 68 was worn but hasn't failed but rarely use that cruiser anymore. I have picked a couple of spares four speeds with very good tailshafts just incase. But that was over twenty years ago. Finding a clean one now is harder to do.

 

[emac]

Thanks for all the responses. I thought about, looked at the wsm, and decided to swap it out. I got a good deal on a new shaft and gear from fjparts and will give it a go.

I will need to buy some kind of puller to remove the bearing. Any advice? I am searching online for a puller.

 

[Pin_Head]

That bearing can be a bitch to pull. I fought one and I don't ever want to do it again. If I did, I would just cut the inner race with a carbide or diamond burr and replace the bearing. Less work and less dangerous.

 

[emac]

I hear you Pinhead. I read a long rebuild thread from a couple of years ago that you were very helpful to the poster and said the same thing back then. I really don't see a lot of good options for me. Another used 4 speed is way more than these parts and i don't know what I will get. If I get in a bind, I have you guys and someone local that can help. It looks like parts and spares have become scarce the last couple of years. Just my luck.

 

[Pin_Head]

I'm not saying you can't get the shaft out; I'm saying that pulling the bearing may not be the way to do it if it doesn't come out easy. Someone had success welding all thread rod to the bearing and using that to pull it. If that doesn't work, I would just cut the race to get the bearing off. The OEM puller is hard to find and expensive.

 

[numby]

Just thought I'd mention that when we last replaced the main shaft in my tranny I had trouble finding a new one that wasn't either out of spec or nearly so. I went through two factory shafts from my local dealer and two aftermarket ones before I found one that had enough extra meat on it that could bee milled back to tolerance. I wouldn't have known the difference but we were doing it in a friends garage who was a rebuilder by trade (still is) so I took his advice. Been a few years so the details are fuzzy but I think the problem was with thrust surface locations. It may have just been a glitch in the manufacturing process that month as I'm pretty sure the aftermaket shafrs were made by the same vendor as the OEM ones.

 

[emac]

Pin head, I really appreciate the advice, and I can't thank you enough for all the advice you have posted here. I do a lot of searching and have picked your brain many times over the few months. I have no issue with cutting the race. I am going to try and make a puller, and if that doesnt work then I will cut it off. I just dont feel comfortable putting this rig back together knowing the shaft is that worn and i will do whatever it takes to get it right.

Numby....hope that isn't the case with me.

 

[emac]

Well.....it is out and on the stool! Ordered rebuild kits for tranny and tc. I welded bolts to two bearings and pulled them with the puller. I figured I should get new bearings anyway. I have a new shaft and output gear. They have a tight fit. I can't believe how much slop it had before. At least 1/4 inch play.

As my Grandpa used to say "if you don't have time to do it right when are you going to have time to do it again".

 

[Pin_Head]

Might as well do the 3-4 synchro brake rings while you are in there.

 

[emac]

Thanks for the heads up. Should I go with OEM or aftermarket? i am just starting to read about how things work in the 4 speed.
Is this what I need?


Synchronizer Ring

 

[Pin_Head]

For only $12 more, I would go with the OEM. It looks like the right part.