Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (5 Viewers)

[linuxgod]

We're not alone.
I have been looking at this website to get ideas as to what components might be involved in my idea of a dream system.
I love that he uses Victron () components. Note the path from the tow vehicle's alternator!!!
Here's one of the installs:
Camper Wiring Diagram w/ 3000w Inverter & 600-1200w Solar - https://explorist.life/3000w-inverter-400-600ah-400-to-1200w-solar-camper-solar-kit/

My setup is similar to the 400W version, but I use 2x 175W panels wired 12V parallel instead of 4x 100W panels wires 24V in parallel and series. And I don't (yet) have an inverter.

FYI homebuilt LFP batteries using Chinese cells acquired on Aliexpress are a fraction of the cost of Battleborn or Renogy or other retail options. Not that everyone wants to do this of course, but I built a 270Ah battery for roughly half the cost of a new 100Ah Battleborn. The batteries by far are the largest cost.

FWIW I think you can build a nice usable small-ish 12V system using the following nowadays:

1. 300-400W solar panels - $300-400
2. MC4 cables, wire, connectors, etc - $100
3. Victron 100/30 MPPT solar controller - $250
4. 1200W inverter - $250
5. 270Ah LiFePO4 battery (DIY) - $500

That's about $1500, give or take. You can upsize the MPPT controller and add extra panels, build 2 batteries, buy a bigger inverter, etc and for $2k+ build a huge system. One thing to keep in mind if you DIY, there are limits based on wire sizes and equipment ratings, so for any larger system you need to start thinking 24V. For instance, the Overkill Solar BMS used in a DIY LFP battery has a 120A limit, so you can't really run an inverter that's bigger than ~1200W (80% of 120A @ 12.8V) continuous draw without going to a system which leverages multiple batteries. Ditto for the MPPT controllers which typically will have a 30-50A limit which means if you have more than 440-730W of solar you're not going to be able to actually accept the extra energy unless you go to 24V or buy a very expensive and very large controller.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

My setup is similar to the 400W version, but I use 2x 175W panels wired 12V parallel instead of 4x 100W panels wires 24V in parallel and series. And I don't (yet) have an inverter.

FYI homebuilt LFP batteries using Chinese cells acquired on Aliexpress are a fraction of the cost of Battleborn or Renogy or other retail options. Not that everyone wants to do this of course, but I built a 270Ah battery for roughly half the cost of a new 100Ah Battleborn. The batteries by far are the largest cost.

FWIW I think you can build a nice usable small-ish 12V system using the following nowadays:

1. 300-400W solar panels - $300-400
2. MC4 cables, wire, connectors, etc - $100
3. Victron 100/30 MPPT solar controller - $250
4. 1200W inverter - $250
5. 270Ah LiFePO4 battery (DIY) - $500

That's about $1500, give or take. You can upsize the MPPT controller and add extra panels, build 2 batteries, buy a bigger inverter, etc and for $2k+ build a huge system. One thing to keep in mind if you DIY, there are limits based on wire sizes and equipment ratings, so for any larger system you need to start thinking 24V. For instance, the Overkill Solar BMS used in a DIY LFP battery has a 120A limit, so you can't really run an inverter that's bigger than ~1200W (80% of 120A @ 12.8V) continuous draw without going to a system which leverages multiple batteries. Ditto for the MPPT controllers which typically will have a 30-50A limit which means if you have more than 440-730W of solar you're not going to be able to actually accept the extra energy unless you go to 24V or buy a very expensive and very large controller.

Regarding up-sizing: multiple MPPT controllers could also be used. One could be dedicated to the panels on the roof; another to an input plug on the side of the trailer perhaps mounted by the tongue. It is to the latter that I would connect either solar panels or my tow vehicle via yet another DC-DC charger. Adding this 2nd port would I think be trivial for the RV vendors.

 

[linuxgod]

Regarding up-sizing: multiple MPPT controllers could also be used. One could be dedicated to the panels on the roof; another to an input plug on the side of the trailer perhaps mounted by the tongue. It is to the latter that I would connect either solar panels or my tow vehicle via yet another DC-DC charger. Adding this 2nd port would I think be trivial for the RV vendors.

I think Lance offers “solar on the side” now, which is just a solar connector on the side of the trailer which connects to the MPPT controller. Basically what I did. Your suggestion to use a second controller would be good if you had maxed out the roof

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I think Lance offers “solar on the side” now, which is just a solar connector on the side of the trailer which connects to the MPPT controller. Basically what I did. Your suggestion to use a second controller would be good if you had maxed out the roof

What you and @TeCKis300 have done is simply amazing.

Regarding the solar on the side: this is great and all vendors should be doing this at this point in time IMHO.

That Victron MultiPlus shown in the diagram looks like it is the nexus of all the various power inputs - it seems to solve a lot of problems. It appears that all you need to do is get your various DC-DC controllers and dump their outputs on a common bus to feed it. I wonder how much room all this stuff takes up.

Funny story TL;DR:
I live in an area where there are a lot of boaters - we live 30 minutes from Annapolis, MD (the US Naval Academy is there for goodness sake!!!) and Baltimore's Inner Harbor. I have an acquaintance who works at marinas that services boats from simple fishing and pleasure boats to large yachts. He also owns a trailer - an Intech. I had an amusing discussion with him about this kind of stuff. In the marine industry and according to him the folks doing electrical work on boats wouldn't blink an eye; they'd just make whatever you want happen. The questions they might have, according to him for example, wouldn't be if you wanted solar panels or gen sets but how many and if you needed to have your A/C and your discotheque running at the same time! He laughs at the RV industry when it comes to this kind of stuff; the marine industry is way ahead in this area. I'm sure it all boils down demographics i.e. $$$.

 

[linuxgod]

What you and @TeCKis300 have done is simply amazing.

Regarding the solar on the side: this is great and all vendors should be doing this at this point in time IMHO.

That Victron MultiPlus shown in the diagram looks like it is the nexus of all the various power inputs - it seems to solve a lot of problems. It appears that all you need to do is get your various DC-DC controllers and dump their outputs on a common bus to feed it. I wonder how much room all this stuff takes up.

Funny story TL;DR:
I live in an area where there are a lot of boaters - we live 30 minutes from Annapolis, MD (the US Naval Academy is there for goodness sake!!!) and Baltimore's Inner Harbor. I have an acquaintance who works at marinas that services boats from simple fishing and pleasure boats to large yachts. He also owns a trailer - an Intech. I had an amusing discussion with him about this kind of stuff. In the marine industry and according to him the folks doing electrical work on boats wouldn't blink an eye; they'd just make whatever you want happen. The questions they might have, according to him for example, wouldn't be if you wanted solar panels or gen sets but how many and if you needed to have your A/C and your discotheque running at the same time! He laughs at the RV industry when it comes to this kind of stuff; the marine industry is way ahead in this area. I'm sure it all boils down demographics i.e. $$$.

Heh I’ve run so much wiring under my trailer in plastic wire loom and then up into the box that it’s silly. Most recent was 12V power off the 7 pin junction box up front snaked to the rear along the frame so I could put a backup camera on the rear ladder. Solar on the side was super easy, but part of that is because my MPPT is mounted in my pass thru so it was *right there*.

Decent RV shops will wire anything you want, but to your point it’s well after the fact. But in most cases I’ve not had issues running new wires to install anything, other than small efforts to fish them through a space.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

We actually looked into this. We were advised that a residential fridge and it's compressor aren't built to take the bumps while towing if that's the goal.

Residential fridges in travel trailers are all the rage in Australia. If those fridges can handle the outback, they can handle an American highway. And given how cheap they are relative to their 12v cousins, you could go through three residential fridges before touching the price of a 12v one.

 

[TeCKis300]

Residential fridges in travel trailers are all the rage in Australia. If those fridges can handle the outback, they can handle an American highway. And given how cheap they are relative to their 12v cousins, you could go through three residential fridges before touching the price of a 12v one.

Maybe I'm missing something but aren't they generally power hogs? If used for disconnected camping, the power system required would potentially outweigh the cost advantage against dedicated RV fridges.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Maybe I'm missing something but aren't they generally power hogs? If used for disconnected camping, the power system required would potentially outweigh the cost advantage against dedicated RV fridges.

I would tend to agree. I too am confused. I'm not sure I'd want one.

When we had our trailer one of the raging topics in the campgrounds was a who's is bigger discussion about whether you had a residential sized fridge-freezer, stove or countertop. Folks with the mega-motorhomes regaled us with their huge residential sized appliances and we were left slinking back to our trailer thinking we were certainly not worthy. My home refrigerator-freezer has a compressor that hangs suspended from grommets and it "jiggles" when it's touched. This is to keep it quiet. So I'm truly wondering how could it would possibly survive the bouncing around of a TT. A mega-motorhome with air-ride suspension perhaps but in a TT? The doors on our residential refrigerator also have no locking latch which you absolutely need in a TT. So is it residential or residential sized fridge-freezer unit we're talking about?

The people who told us a residential fridge-freezer wouldn't work in an RV was the RV dealer from whom we bought the trailer. So there's maybe a built in bias or just plain ignorance there. Go figure. I don't recall ever seeing a true residential fridge-freezer in a TT but my experience is limited.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Maybe I'm missing something but aren't they generally power hogs? If used for disconnected camping, the power system required would potentially outweigh the cost advantage against dedicated RV fridges.

Most are, but not all. Some are reasonably efficient.

I haven't done the math myself, but there must be a benefit to going residential.

For those that want a 12v version in a "residential style," Unique Appliances has some good options. Costco used to carry them, but I believe Home Depot sells them now.

 

[TeCKis300]

Most are, but not all. Some are reasonably efficient.

I haven't done the math myself, but there must be a benefit to going residential.

For those that want a 12v version in a "residential style," Unique Appliances has some good options. Costco used to carry them, but I believe Home Depot sells them now.

Ah! It's clicking now. I took residential to be the regular home style fridges but there's a niche in there meant for off-grid solar powered homes.

These use the same Danfoss/Secop compressors and are indeed very efficient. Just doesn't have the secure latches but that could be retrofitted.

Thanks for the link!

 

[Slow Paddler]

Nice trailer!!! Envious!
I have a couple of operational questions, not a towing question per se.
Are you able to run your fridge/freezer on 12V while towing?*
Can you charge your trailer's battery(ies) via the tow vehicle when towing?
Our approach to camping makes us want to arrive at camp fully charged up.

*Our previous trailer's fridge/freezer was a 120V/propane unit and we couldn't run the fridge under tow.

Sorry for the late reply. I haven't been on here in a while.

The 2023 Oliver changed to a compressor fridge, and runs only on 12/120V. I have it on all the time, including at home in the driveway. The draw is low, and the solar more than makes up for it.

If you opt for either lithium package, charging via the 7-pin connector is disabled. Other battery options do have charging from the tow vehicle. This is due to the huge amperage draw that lithium batteries are capable of, and Oliver doesn't know if a vehicle's wiring or alternator are heavy duty enough. Some have added a separate DC to DC charger using heavy wire and Anderson plugs. With 630A/h of batteries and 400W of solar up top and a 200W portable panel, I could run indefinitely if I leave the air conditioner off.

Edit to add:
My factory installed solar panels are two 200W 24V panels going into a Victron controller. The external port is for a panel with an inbuilt controller and goes directly to the batteries, but my 200W Bluetti panel does not have a controller. I looked at re-routing the port's wires to the existing controller, but using the excellent resources at Explorist.life, I realized I can't mix 24V panels and 12V panels, so I added a second Victron controller just for the port. Unfortunately, Oliver currently still uses a Xantrex 3000W inverter/charger instead of a Victron MultiPlus. One of these days I want to spurge and swap this out.

Oliver did do kind of a cool thing when switching fridges. Since the vent on the side is no longer needed, but they don't plan to change the fiberglass mold to remove the vent, they instead added a foldaway table. It comes in really handy!

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Sorry for the late reply. I haven't been on here in a while.

The 2023 Oliver changed to a compressor fridge, and runs only on 12/120V. I have it on all the time, including at home in the driveway. The draw is low, and the solar more than makes up for it.

If you opt for either lithium package, charging via the 7-pin connector is disabled. Other battery options do have charging from the tow vehicle. This is due to the huge amperage draw that lithium batteries are capable of, and Oliver doesn't know if a vehicle's wiring or alternator are heavy duty enough. Some have added a separate DC to DC charger using heavy wire and Anderson plugs. With 630A/h of batteries and 400W of solar up top and a 200W portable panel, I could run indefinitely if I leave the air conditioner off.

Edit to add:
My factory installed solar panels are two 200W 24V panels going into a Victron controller. The external port is for a panel with an inbuilt controller and goes directly to the batteries, but my 200W Bluetti panel does not have a controller. I looked at re-routing the port's wires to the existing controller, but using the excellent resources at Explorist.life, I realized I can't mix 24V panels and 12V panels, so I added a second Victron controller just for the port. Unfortunately, Oliver currently still uses a Xantrex 3000W inverter/charger instead of a Victron MultiPlus. One of these days I want to spurge and swap this out.

Oliver did do kind of a cool thing when switching fridges. Since the vent on the side is no longer needed, but they don't plan to change the fiberglass mold to remove the vent, they instead added a foldaway table. It comes in really handy!

View attachment 3413448

Many Thanks! This answers a few questions about their solar inputs and their use of the 7 pin. We're meeting with the Oliver folks at the Hershey PA show in September to actually see one in person. Thanks again!

 

[Slow Paddler]

Many Thanks! This answers a few questions about their solar inputs and their use of the 7 pin. We're meeting with the Oliver folks at the Hershey PA show in September to actually see one in person. Thanks again!

Happy to help! We really are enjoying our trailer. There is a wonderful owners forum on Oliver’s web site with years of fabulous resources and helpful people. There’s also an Oliver Owners Facebook group. Let me know if you have any questions or want specific photos.

 

[skrypj]

View attachment 3399659View attachment 3399662View attachment 3399665

Is that an X213? If so, that is what I have and have been looking for a Land Cruiser to tow it with. I've towed it with my GX460 a number of times, and the 460 does a decent job, but it lacks a bit in the power department at high elevation. I try to keep it off the open freeway.

 

[empty80]

Is that an X213? If so, that is what I have and have been looking for a Land Cruiser to tow it with. I've towed it with my GX460 a number of times, and the 460 does a decent job, but it lacks a bit in the power department at high elevation. I try to keep it off the open freeway.

It is. My wife was hellbent on the model and spent four days driving from ABQ to Minneapolis and back to get one.

The 200 does ok with the 3.9 gears with 285/75r17. If I went down to 285/70r17, it would better. That said, it still gets up Coal Bank and Red Mountain Passes just fine.

 

[skrypj]

It is. My wife was hellbent on the model and spent four days driving from ABQ to Minneapolis and back to get one.

The 200 does ok with the 3.9 gears with 285/75r17. If I went down to 285/70r17, it would better. That said, it still gets up Coal Bank and Red Mountain Passes just fine.

Nice. Honestly, its a really great layout. Compact while towing but that king size slide opens up a ton of space. Ive got a build thread on the F150 forum with some stuff ive done to mine. Just recently finished up a 3” lift.

Jayco Jayfeather X213 “build” thread

I figured I would start a little thread to log the mods I am doing to my trailer. First things first, TV delete: Loses some weight and frees up some storage space. We rarely have hookups so the TV has literally never been used other than to try it out in my driveway. Plus we have an iPad...

www.f150ecoboost.net

Yeah my GX does ok. I can do 65 mph on the flats and small rolling hills without much issue but once you get onto the big climbs its a grind. Still holds 50 for the most part. My worry is getting into a hot day with a stout headwind. I just dont think it has the horsepower to tow that parachute through a 30 mph headwind without dropping to 50mph. There has been days towing with my F150 where I was using a sustained 220 hp on flat ground to move my trailer through a headwind.

 

[Catskills]

RV fridges are changing. Most until now used absorption fridges powered in 2-ways (sometimes 3) but usually12V/propane or 120V. They generally work well but can be finicky in high summer temps or unlevel situations. These fridges can generally be powered by propane while underway but there's a legacy of fear from earlier generations where they would catch fire.

Last few years has seen a movement towards compressor fridges that can be powered by 12V or 120V. These are actually very similar in technology to the cooler style powered fridges we often. Made possible by compact and energy efficient Danfoss compressors. These are efficient enough that they can be powered completely by enough solar.

I'm about to switch my absorption fridge because of bad summer performance. Also I visit more BLM and odd places where the trailer is not always level...parked my trailer for a couple hours at probably 20° nose high and it locked up the ammonia cycle losing all cooling.

I have 400W solar and 500Ah battery so I'm already prepared on the power side to switch over to a compressor fridge.

Yes, the tow vehicle can charge the trailer. Need a DC-DC for anything other than lead acid. Probably can only get 15A at most through the 7-pin. Honestly with 400W solar on the roof, I really rarely need any other charge source to keep things topped off and powered perpetually.

I never knew about the importance of level camping before this summer as my fridge really struggled. My dad set me straight

I camped on Hatteras Island for a month and the camper was completely level but the fridge was still iced over in the back. A small fan in my fridge helped immensely to cool things evenly and I won't go without it on future trips.

 

[Lou Gill]

Had to tow a 25’ car trailer this weekend, can’t say that my LX would be my first choice to do this on a regular basis, but I don’t think that’s what is designed to do.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

I still love towing with my LX...

 

[JxnLC]

After multiple trips towing a 27ft Airstream International in my new-to-me '21 LC, I've noticed that sometimes when I start the engine shortly after a break (usually for fuel) that the starter seems to turn over a few more times than usual before starting. Anyone else experienced this?

My theory is it may be heat-related. Looking at the temps in OBD fusion, everything is within safe ranges, but much hotter than without towing.

Other than that, it has been flawless and tows great, even a very relatively heavy (over 6k pound) trailer. A good setup (WD hitch, Firestone air bags) is key, but the LC is plenty capable. Thanks to everyone who contributed here, the 76 pages of info was instrumental in success.