Torque Steer on newly lifted LC (2 Viewers)

[linuxgod]

My mechanic's helper tore mine when installing the lift. That's because he wedged a prying bar between the outer CV and the LCA, trying to get more leverage to get the front strut installed.

Was yours torn, or was it simply squirting grease out from around the clamp? If it's the latter I suggest having the existing CVs re-clamped first as I've read of people who change their CV angles and have some grease leakage. FWIW I had some on mine but it was because the newly replaced CV boots weren't clamped tight enough - new clamps on the inner boots and no grease leakage now.

 

[SQRRRL]

My mechanic's helper tore mine when installing the lift. That's because he wedged a prying bar between the outer CV and the LCA, trying to get more leverage to get the front strut installed.

Was yours torn, or was it simply squirting grease out from around the clamp? If it's the latter I suggest having the existing CVs re-clamped first as I've read of people who change their CV angles and have some grease leakage. FWIW I had some on mine but it was because the newly replaced CV boots weren't clamped tight enough - new clamps on the inner boots and no grease leakage now.

I could not find the the source. The service kid said it had a small tear and it would be a goodwill repair. "Not cost to me"
It dumped so much grease it was dripping from LCA. Looks like they replaced the outside boot.

 

[TonyP]

Ah yes, the old "it was already like that" routine. Generally businesses don't do free work, so they probably hosed the boot.

 

[SQRRRL]

I played along.

 

[SQRRRL]

Sooooo TOUGH DOG rear springs go on per R/H L/H , be carful with the outer CV boot and ROCK ON!

 

[linuxgod]

@linuxgod , I measured my stock springs (2008 model with 104K miles):

• One was 18" - and it had blue and purple paint markings from the factory
• The other was approx. 17 3/8" - and it had red and pink paint markings from the factory.

Perhaps someone else with their stock springs still on can tell us which paint markings are on which side?

Fwiw the taller spring on my 2013 is also blue and purple. The shorter one is green and purple though. Taller was on the right from the factory.

 

[linuxgod]

Swapped the rear springs from left-to-right (and vice-versa) this weekend. Despite what Tough Dog put on the label about putting the taller spring marked "RH" on the driver's side for US models, they are wrong. I moved the taller spring to the RH (passenger's) side, which is where the taller factory spring was, and the truck sits level within 1/4" left-to-right now.

 

[SQRRRL]

Swapped the rear springs from left-to-right (and vice-versa) this weekend. Despite what Tough Dog put on the label about putting the taller spring marked "RH" on the driver's side for US models, they are wrong. I moved the taller spring to the RH (passenger's) side, which is where the taller factory spring was, and the truck sits level within 1/4" left-to-right now.

SWEET.

 

[Dan Higgins]

So did the original issue go away?

 

[linuxgod]

This wasn't originally my thread, I just sorta hijacked it. I haven't gotten an alignment done yet, but for me yes when I step on or let off the gas the truck doesn't seem to pull now.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Glad to hear it, Geoff. I just had the OME springs and UCAs and Nitrocharger shocks put on my LC on Friday. I didn't notice any pulling at all. It was a modest lift. Probably less then 2". So maybe not enough to make a difference. And the springs are 700s in the front and 721s (progressive) in the rear.

 

[linuxgod]

TD says it's a 2" lift in front, 1" in rear for me. My torque steer issues (pulling) was the result of the rear springs being swapped, which was leading to a lean. Before I swapped the springs on Saturday, the left rear was 1 3/8" taller than the right, and the front left was 7/8" taller than the front right. Now left-to-right is 1/4" difference. If you don't have a vehicle lean, particularly in the front, then I wouldn't expect any pulling outside of an alignment issue.

 

[linuxgod]

I would give my specs, but you need to at least start from a good base instead of the bad alignment they gave you.

Front Caster 2.9±0.75

Front Camber 0.13±0.75
set your left camber to +.6-.8 and go UP from there. You can go as high as +1.5 before any additional wear happens

Front Toe (degrees) 0.24°±0.16°

Front Toe (inches) 0.12±0.08"

After installing SPC UCAs last weekend and swapping the rear springs, I took it in for a new alignment today. Obviously my eyeballing the settings on the UCAs was way the hell off. @Taco2Cruiser, I know you'll probably have comments about the camber settings

The tech (Justin) and I talked about your settings, my driving, etc for a while. Since 1/3 to 1/2 of my miles are spent towing (5000-6000 miles per year), and towing adds camber by lifting the front a bit (even with air bags and a light duty WD hitch), he actually set the camber slightly negative, jacked the front up by about 1 to 1.5" to verify zero camber, then lowered the front and took the final reading. FWIW we decided to try slightly more caster than spec to help it track straight particularly when towing, and slightly more negative camber than spec since I tow and the front tires seem to have excess wear on the outside after 5,000 miles with the prior camber settings.

I only drove maybe 15 miles home, but she was straight as an arrow and steady on the highway at 70mph. I'll see how the tires wear once I rotate them shortly.

Ignore the "Sequoia" specs. For some reason his alignment system couldn't find the 2013 Land Cruiser this time, but he used the manufacturer specs from my original sheet as his starting point and then added caster and reduced camber from there.

 

[Vinvin]

Sure thing. Torque steer is caused by more torque being delivered to one side of a car than the other. It is common in front wheel drive cars that have unequal drive shaft length, like our front ends. But the rear end of our trucks have equal length shafts, in fact the 200 series is the first land cruiser to have equal length rear shafts. 100 series and before had varying different lengths of left and right rear drive shafts. So that is why the REAR 200 axle CANNOT create torque steer.

Now if you want to talk about what the rear axle of a 200 series can do to steering when under acceleration its called "thrust angle." Thrust angle is a line drawn front the center of the rear axle strait forward at a 90˚, the trick is to get that imaginary line that shoots perfectly strait forward of the axle to also be perfectly strait forward on the truck itself.

That said, you could off center our rear axle quite a few degrees from a 3" lift and you won't see any real help. You simply have a bad front end alignment. Most alignment shops don't want to start over with your cams, so they just move one or two around till they get green lights, aaaannnd good!

I'd bet you don't have enough cross camber to the left to compensate for road crown (which the old timers say you can't plan for, but I say at least try) and some cross caster to the right.

Also for your Tough Dog suspension, they are Australian, when they said driver side, they meant our passenger side or fuel tank side. For all 200s, the taller rear springs always goes on the fuel tank side, Australian driver side, American passenger side.

I did the 2” OME springs and struts and left the rear stock. Now my lc200 drives straight when cruising, but pulls hard to the right when accelerating.

Is this still an alignment issue?

Or do I need to do something to the rear suspension?

 

[TexAZ]

post up your alignment numbers, it could be something simple as an adjustment.

a local truck had a similar issue and the end result was that the steering rack had worn out.
it was a higher mileage vehicle, and one of a very few that have experienced the failure.

 

[linuxgod]

I did the 2” OME springs and struts and left the rear stock. Now my lc200 drives straight when cruising, but pulls hard to the right when accelerating.

Is this still an alignment issue?

Or do I need to do something to the rear suspension?

Not sure if you ever got an answer to this, but I've had my setup for 2 years and still have a bit of torque steer precisely as you describe - slight pull to the right under hard acceleration, slight pull to the left when you let off the gas. Cruising along at, say, 45mph the alignment is perfect - hands off the steering wheel and it'll drive straight for miles. The pull is worse for me when towing. I suspect it's due to the CVs being at a sharper angle due to the lift, and since towing a heavy trailer removes weight from the front (effectively adding lift) it's made worse when towing. I am going to try a 1" diff drop kit in the near future, since I had a CV boot tear recently, so if I remember I'll post any difference in feel once I've done that.

 

[Hammeredsole]

I also have torque steer to the right, but only after switching to SPC UCA's from Total Chaos (because they were noisy as heck). I think I've discovered the cause, but have yet to fix it. When I put the SPC UCA's on, the drivers side upper joint was pulled all the way out for camber, and the passenger side upper joint was basically centered in the SPC slot. The alignment guy didn't bother to put them even, and instead did the alignment with the factory adjustments. The sides are now technically not even, even though the numbers show them to be good. I intend on dropping it off this week and having another go (this time with explicit instruction to even out the UCA's sliding upper joint FIRST!)

 

[Union]

Hey I got this too. It reminds me of departure roll in a prop plane.

 

[linuxgod]

@Hammeredsole I'll be curious to see if that helps you. Both my SPCs are set to +2.

 

[Tripledave]

Its been so long since I originally mentioned this that I had forgotten about my post. Just to update, I had new tires installed about 10k miles ago and the "torque steer" I had is no longer noticeable. I suspect that I have become somewhat used to it however. I will be adding OME 2703 heavies with new TJM bullbar with subsequent alignment in the next few weeks and certainly hope it does not return. I will also install an adjustable panhard rod to correct the offest rear axle which probably does not affect much but I've been staring at my rigs's rear end for a few weeks now and it's just off-center enough to make my head crazy.