To ABS or not to ABS, that is the question (1 Viewer)

lumbee1

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I certainly appreciate all the feedback and I know this is a contentious issue however right now I have air in the pump, my braking performance is quite bad, and my ABS light is on indicating it is not working. When trying to activate the pump all I heard was a soft relay thump and it is very possible that something within the pump is no longer working.

I am going to give it another go with trying to get the pump to work but in the end I want strong consistent brakes and I don't have that with the "factory" braking system. Currently if I had to perform an emergency stop situation on the interstate at 70 mph, I would much rather have no ABS than the soft spongy brakes I have now.

As for modifying the safety features on a vehicle from it's factory configuration, I've installed 35" tires, a lift, removed the EGR, removed the seat belts from the 3rd row, installed 100 series pads, removed the LSPV, replaced the factory bumper with an ARB, and replaced the rear bumper with a 4x4Labs.
 

jaymar

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Yes but because of my new superior braking I did not run over the bus of nuns so no need for the insurance company. :grinpimp:

Personally, I don't see adding hydroboost or even 40's any different. You are altering the performance of a factory system. Point being an insurance company can deny coverage for a ton of reasons and crappy companies do all the time. BTDT
Well, at least with the hydroboost you can argue that you're adding to/enhancing the original system, and can physically demonstrate the enhancement. Deleting the ABS is another story. Granted, you don't really want a computer making cliffside braking decisions--but try explaining that after an on-road accident. As TLC/ICON's Jonathan Ward put it: Deleting ABS would require more lawyers than he's met in his entire life. But he hydroboosts non-ABS vehicles all the time.
 
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Well, at least with the hydroboost you can argue that you're adding to/enhancing the original system, and can physically demonstrate the enhancement. Deleting the ABS is another story. Granted, you don't really want a computer making cliffside braking decisions--but try explaining that after an on-road accident. As TLC/ICON's Jonathan Ward put it: Deleting ABS would require more lawyers than he's met in his entire life. But he hydroboosts non-ABS vehicles all the time.
I mean, there are plenty of 80's that don't have ABS. It was an option. It would be a different story if it was standard equipment, but it's not. Toyota deemed that the FZJ80 was safe to drive with or without ABS.
 

LandCruiserPhil

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Well, at least with the hydroboost you can argue that you're adding to/enhancing the original system, and can physically demonstrate the enhancement. Deleting the ABS is another story. Granted, you don't really want a computer making cliffside braking decisions--but try explaining that after an on-road accident. As TLC/ICON's Jonathan Ward put it: Deleting ABS would require more lawyers than he's met in his entire life. But he hydroboosts non-ABS vehicles all the time.

We live in the USA EVERYTHING can be argued both ways. The real question has much money do you have.

As for insurance companies they are real tuff until they receive a letter from your attorney then the tempo changes. Something Im currently dealing with.
 
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Well, at least with the hydroboost you can argue that you're adding to/enhancing the original system, and can physically demonstrate the enhancement. Deleting the ABS is another story. Granted, you don't really want a computer making cliffside braking decisions--but try explaining that after an on-road accident. As TLC/ICON's Jonathan Ward put it: Deleting ABS would require more lawyers than he's met in his entire life. But he hydroboosts non-ABS vehicles all the time.

I’m behind you on the legal and insurance ramifications, but it sounds as if OP’s pump is dead.

From what I gather, you can reverse the ABS delete.

@lumbee1 perhaps you can delete it and see if someone can bring your old ABS pump back from the dead.

E3CB2D0B-8074-41D2-A704-59CB009F8C8C.jpeg
 

jaymar

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I mean, there are plenty of 80's that don't have ABS. It was an option. It would be a different story if it was standard equipment, but it's not. Toyota deemed that the FZJ80 was safe to drive with or without ABS.
[/QUOTE
We live in the USA EVERYTHING can be argued both ways. The real question has much money do you have.

As for insurance companies they are real tuff until they receive a letter from your attorney then the tempo changes. Something Im currently dealing with.
Care to share?
 

jaymar

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I certainly appreciate all the feedback and I know this is a contentious issue however right now I have air in the pump, my braking performance is quite bad, and my ABS light is on indicating it is not working. When trying to activate the pump all I heard was a soft relay thump and it is very possible that something within the pump is no longer working.

I am going to give it another go with trying to get the pump to work but in the end I want strong consistent brakes and I don't have that with the "factory" braking system. Currently if I had to perform an emergency stop situation on the interstate at 70 mph, I would much rather have no ABS than the soft spongy brakes I have now.

As for modifying the safety features on a vehicle from it's factory configuration, I've installed 35" tires, a lift, removed the EGR, removed the seat belts from the 3rd row, installed 100 series pads, removed the LSPV, replaced the factory bumper with an ARB, and replaced the rear bumper with a 4x4Labs.
Ha, bumpers are clearly upgrades, maybe the pads too. Seat belts, LSPV? Go with God, and stay out of court. ;)
 

baldilocks

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I did not know that you could just crack the bleeder and let gravity do the work.. That would have been easier then explaining to the girl how to pump and hold whilst being asked "again...?" "Yes, hun..again, we've gotta do it until there's no bubbles" then came the " my leg is getting tired" :rofl: she's a trooper though and persisted.
This is the best reason to delete abs and associated plumbing simplifying the system greatly. Just don’t let the MC run dry.
 

baldilocks

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I have owned and understand hydroboost systems my point is by adding you are altering a factory braking system.
And so is removing the abs equipment altering the brake system. My point was to explain to others that they don’t have to put up with a long pedal stroke even if their brakes can lock up 37’s.
 
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Comet

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Comet’s abs is long gone. As soon as a mod was posted that cost me nothing and improved my vehicle to boot ? No brainer for me. Also, the 2001 tundra limited I bought doesn’t have abs either (from the factory that way).
 
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@lumbee1
I had to hit the brakes pretty hard to not quickly hit the car in front but the car behind me was very close also. The ABS got involved and I steered the right to navigate to the shoulder so that I could give the car behind a bit more room to stop without hitting the 80. You never know how things may have been different but I don't see how I could have managed that high-speed stop and mid-stop course adjustment on the wet and varied surfaces (stripe, rumble strip, shoulder) without having more wheel slip and drama. In my non ABS vehicles, particularly 4wds, such a maneuver often led to one side braking better than the other and the vehicle trying to rotate which increases stopping distance as it's managed. In short, I plan to keep the ABS. Before I finally got my brakes to adequate levels though I was considering deleting the ABS and had they not started working well (thanks to my persistence) I wouldn't have kept ABS.

^^^^ This is the reason ABS was invented.

It is NOT because you "stop shorter" it is in order to maintain control during heavy braking with evasive maneuvers.

It does, however help with reaction times on wet roads in order to provide typically shorter distances because MOST people tend to just lock their brakes which does little to effectively slow them down in a timely manner. A computer can monitor that MUCH faster than a human.

I can prove to you that ABS is actually a deterrent in 1" of snow in a parking lot. Your braking distance will INCREASE with ABS versus actually locking your wheels.

This is all debatable and hence the reason for an attorney.

I agree, I would like to avoid a collision in my 80 no matter what. Since many heavy trucks o the same era were not REQUIRED to have ABS, then it's probably a negotiable issue with the insurance company.

Yes, ABS has saved my bacon (non-LC) at 70 MPH on dry pavement. I know I could NOT have braked better than the ABS in that situation. I was so close to this guy, I actually braced for impact, but somehow, I didn't actually hit him.

So, there are pros and cons for ABS.

I am running without my ABS right now because the reluctor rings are missing on my front axles. I will reinstall at the next rebuild, but until then, no. Been without it for 88K miles now.
 

lumbee1

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In NC it is rare that we get any kind of inclement weather but I've tested braking on less than ideal surfaces. On an empty road covered in a thin layer of ice and snow, I stabbed the brakes with and without ABS. With ABS, the truck struggled to stop but was controlled and remained in the straight and in the lane . Without ABS, the front and rear locked up and the truck started rotating around. The Cruiser ended up diagonally across the road and traveled much further than I expected. I put myself in this type of extreme situation purposefully. I did not try modulating the brakes on my own to see if I could stop shorter than the ABS or none ABS situations.

I don't have high hopes that I can get my ABS pump working again and I'm still not convinced I want to replace it.
 

jaymar

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In NC it is rare that we get any kind of inclement weather but I've tested braking on less than ideal surfaces. On an empty road covered in a thin layer of ice and snow, I stabbed the brakes with and without ABS. With ABS, the truck struggled to stop but was controlled and remained in the straight and in the lane . Without ABS, the front and rear locked up and the truck started rotating around. The Cruiser ended up diagonally across the road and traveled much further than I expected. I put myself in this type of extreme situation purposefully. I did not try modulating the brakes on my own to see if I could stop shorter than the ABS or none ABS situations.

I don't have high hopes that I can get my ABS pump working again and I'm still not convinced I want to replace it.
Once upon a time I drove a lifted 78 Bronco. The one time I really had to slam on the brakes, everything locked up, the whole truck started rotating around the engine and feeling tippy. Interesting sensation. Had to take my foot off the brake to stop the rotation. Which kind of kills the point of hitting the brakes in the first place. Not good.
 
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baldilocks

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“I don't have high hopes that I can get my ABS pump working again”

Sounds like you are already without ABS so what’s to think about? Continuing to run in it’s current condition is worse than removing abs and worse than not spending the time and money necessary to rehab the system to its factory performance, if that is possible. There is a reason so many have removed it from these vehicles and I’m sure that the 80 series cruiser crowd isn’t the only group that has solved poor braking performance on older abs equipped cars with an ABS-ectomy. Is your 80 a daily Driver? Do you drive on snow and ice a considerable amount of time? Are you concerned about resale value?

IMO, if your 80 is primarily a toy that sits around waiting to be driven and your main reason for owning it is going off road and thoughts of ever selling make you nauseous, then removing the abs, the LSPV and installing a manual proportioning valve is the thing to do.

You started this thread with a short story about how your brakes performed poorly in an off road situation. Pumping the pedal two-three times before getting up to any helpful brake pressure is annoying and unsafe no matter where you find yourself needing brakes.
 

lumbee1

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“I don't have high hopes that I can get my ABS pump working again”

Sounds like you are already without ABS so what’s to think about? Continuing to run in it’s current condition is worse than removing abs and worse than not spending the time and money necessary to rehab the system to its factory performance, if that is possible. There is a reason so many have removed it from these vehicles and I’m sure that the 80 series cruiser crowd isn’t the only group that has solved poor braking performance on older abs equipped cars with an ABS-ectomy. Is your 80 a daily Driver? Do you drive on snow and ice a considerable amount of time? Are you concerned about resale value?

IMO, if your 80 is primarily a toy that sits around waiting to be driven and your main reason for owning it is going off road and thoughts of ever selling make you nauseous, then removing the abs, the LSPV and installing a manual proportioning valve is the thing to do.

You started this thread with a short story about how your brakes performed poorly in an off road situation. Pumping the pedal two-three times before getting up to any helpful brake pressure is annoying and unsafe no matter where you find yourself needing brakes.
The ABS hasn't worked in at least one year.
Is your 80 a daily Driver? no, but lately with COVID it has been the first vehicle I get into when driving anywhere.
Do you drive on snow and ice a considerable amount of time? I am more likely to need ABS with a swarm of mosquitos rather than snow or ice.
Are you concerned about resale value? My 15 year old daughter and 12 year old son argue all the time about who is going to keep the Cruiser.

Thanks.
 
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I would just bypass it for now as it's an urgent safety issue, and wait for a deal on a new pump at the nearest salvage yard.

LKQ pick-your-part sells them for $52 (and a $10 core) with 90 day return policy. You've got 2 of them near you, so set up the email alerts and you'll probably get one within 6 months. Maybe grab some sensors and the computer too while you're at it.


I like LKQ because you don't pay the cruiser tax, or even the toyota tax. Its the same pricing whether its a crown vic, land rover, or land cruiser.
 
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For about a year now, my ABS light has been on
This entire thread makes no sense to me.
You say the ABS light is on. That is indicating a fault in the system and/or that ABS has been disabled.
In this condition, trying to activate ABS won't work because the system is compromised.
There is an entire section on troubleshooting the ABS system in the FSM. Wouldn't it be logical to fix it first or at least identify the issue?
 
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The OP's question is the same as has been asked a number of times. And the answers havent changed over the years. Seems to boil down to-Do whatever you want to do! Be cognizant of the ramifications of your decision and ready to live with yhe consequences. And then go to bed at night and sleep like a baby. Not a concern in the world.
 

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