Events/Trails TLCA event safety tech

ginericLC

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Currently the TLCA bylaws/SOPs do not have any means
of testing automatic equipped Land Cruisers for an
emergency/parking brake. I've done several tests on
my own two rigs trying to develop a way to test the
parking brake. On my 91 it is easy. Put it in 2nd
gear and apply the parking brake and take it up to
half throttle. If the brake works it won't move. On
my 94 it is a bit more difficult as when I apply the
parking brake and put it in 2nd it downshifts to first
and will move the vehicle. Yet the brake works fine,
it just won't hold the Cruiser back under power. Any
ideas of how to test an automatic equipped LC to make
sure the brake works? Also, does idling it up in 2nd
gear with the parking brake on hurt anything?
 
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Don't know the best way to test it, but I was always surprised by that rule. Makes sense on a stick, but just seemed a tad much for an auto (just my view though, probably because I never use it on my truck). I'd think D would be better, but remember that unless you have the 2nd start button depressed (assuming you have the button) the truck will always start in 1st right?

My local club has never done any of these safety checks - that's a little scarey considering what can go wrong at times on the trail.
 

cruiserdan

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The ability of the parking brake to hold against engine load (power braking for lack of a better term) is subjective at best. As the torque converter is a torque multiplier and engines have different power outputs (EG forced induction) it would be dificult to use the brakes ability to hold against engine torque as the benchmark. Probably a better choice would be a ramp of a specific angle that the brake must hold the vehicle on.

I can tell you that in my case the service brakes WILL NOT hold my vehicle back if it is in low range and I power brake it. The engine overpowers them and I roll, with the brake pedal buried in the firewall.
 

ginericLC

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The rule doesn't say low range. So 2nd gear high range would work except in 93/94 models right? 95-97s would engage their 2nd gear start button. In my 91 when you select 2nd you only get second it won't downshift to 1st. The problem with ramps is nobody wants to haul a ramp to an event. The event organizers have enough junk they have to drag along let alone a ramp to an event. This was of course my first thought too.

NW Cruisers has just recently mandated a safety check of all vehicles attending runs. We are having an annual inspection for members with spot checks before runs. Visitors will have their rigs inspected prior to being allowed to run with us. Our reason for enforcing this is in November we had a nasty trail break that kept folks out in a blizzard until 2AM. The break could have easily been prevented. It not only put his rig and occupants at risk but everyone that was involved. We aren't so concerned about a parking brake like at TLCA events. We are looking for things that are not safe for the occupants or others on the trail or have a high probability of breaking on the trail.
 

wob

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Why not try the 2nd gear start feature? (ya, know, the button next to the PWR one)



EDIT

Maybe I should read all of the responses BEFORE I reply. :slap:
 

cruiserdan

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Eric,

Engine output and torque multiplication variations apply regardless of which transfer range or gear range is selected. I mentioned my example to illustrate that in certain conditions NO brakes will hold the vehicle when power is applied. Another fly in the ointment is automatics that can start out in 2nd are the exception rather than the rule.
I agree with you that there is a need to establish a minimun performance level of the parking brake system. Unfortunately the only thing I have been able to come up with is some sort of test involving an incline of a predetermined slope and then requiring the brake to hold the vehicle on that incline, preferably without having the parking pawl come into play. A parking brake that will not hold without the aid of the pawl is next to no good. If you break a pawl what are you going to do to secure the vehicle?
 
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I don't have any serious trail experience, but from what you're describing here's a thought:

Get the truck rolling at a given speed on level ground and see how far it takes to stop the truck with just the parking brake. Trucks that can stop within X number of feet are good to go. Heavier trucks (i.e., lots of mods) will take longer to stop, but that's a real world effect on the braking system that should be accounted for. And it won't make a difference if you have a stock engine or a 700hp Arabian engine.

Tom
 

ginericLC

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That would work and be a good test. I cannot imagine doing this in a place like the Slickrock Campground at the Cruise Moab check in. I was hoping for an easy fix. It appears that whatever the test will be it will involve some outside of the test vehicle forces: a hill, a strap, ramp, or other means to make the rig move.
 
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Hay. I was just going to ask a p-brake problem question :doh:

I was just checking my P-brake today and the manual says count the clicks when you pull the p-brake handle.. 7-9 clicks is in spec. Any more of less, have it adjusted by a Toyota dealer.

I have 11 clicks and like Eric, it won't hold in gear. It also won't hold on a steeeeep hill
:mad: I adjusted it all I could at the p-brake handle.
Is there a way to shorten the cable or do I need a new cable.
 

landtank

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Kurt sounds like you have the same problem I had. The major culprit was the cable that went from the bellcrank to the shoe actuator inside the rotor. Mine were rusted pretty bad and you wouldn't get a firm in line pull from the bellcrank which would give some sponge in the sytem and not lock the wheels. However as far as the cable adjustment, you need to start at the wheels and work out. There is adjustment proceedures that if followed should set the number of clicks back to 7 provided nobody previously adjusted the cable at the hand brake.
 
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Rick (or others)

I checked my PB today and it's way past 9 clicks though it will hold against a moderate load. I don't think it would lock the rear tyres at 5 MPH. I loaned my FSM to a new 80 owner so it's not availble to me right now.

Can you point me to a post describing the proper way to adjust the parking brake?

-B-
 
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Glad someone got it... :D Wouldn't a little pre-trail tug of war be fun!

Anyway....haven't crawled under to check the 80 drums...but when I adjusted the PB on my 60 you could remove a plug from the back of the drum and manually adjust the "adjuster bolt" until it was perfectly tight. Anyone know from experience?

Thanks
 

landtank

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Not at home right now B so this is sort of a loose description from memory.

There is an adjusting stop screw on the bellcrank on the outside where the cable from the hand brake attaches. This needs to be backed out to provide plenty of slack to the inner workings of the e-brake. Then you would adjust the pad presure through that thumb wheel to get a slight drag when rotating the rotor.

Now go back to the stop screw on the bell crank and adjust for a 1mm gap between the screw and rear plate. This is done when using your hands to tension the bellcrank to take up the slack of the inner parts of the e-brake.

After this was done I had a little bit of play at the hand brake from the slop in the cabling between the hand brake and the bellcranks. I still was within the 9 clicks but if there was enough slack there you could be out and need to take up some there at the hand brake. If you do adjust it there be sure you still have some free play in the handle with the hand brake in the off position.

Hope this makes sense.
 

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