Isn't it a sort of positive-feedback reaction? Once one cell cooks off, it starts a cascade iirc.Lithium-ion batteries can be extremely reactive. Once an explosion is triggered, it proceeds very quickly, releases toxic gases, and is difficult to contain.
I can't comment on Tesla garage fires as much. However when it large concentrations of lithium batteries are present, they can cause catastrophic explosions.
What a major battery fire means for the future of energy storage
The latest fire at Moss Landing Power plant is raising concerns about battery safety.www.technologyreview.com
Major fire breaks out at French plant housing lithium batteries
Some 900 tonnes of lithium batteries were on fire at a battery recycling plant in southern France, authorities said on Sunday, sending a cloud of thick black smoke into the sky above the site.www.france24.com
'A ticking time bomb': Missouri town reels more than 4 months after lithium battery plant fire
The long-term impact on the environment is still unknown.www.ksdk.com
Personally, I'm glad our hybrid has an old-school NiMH battery. I believe the LC250 does as well.
Tinker's latest brutal review of LC250 (1 Viewer)
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I will let a chemist/chemical engineer answer that one
. I know people who were evacuated from the Fire No. 3 area, so it's a bit close to home. I also have a friend who worked in lead-acid battery recycling. He noted that even a single lithium-ion battery - if it somehow made it into their process by accident - could react near instantly and cause a small fire/explosion.
That is an ethos that needs re-introduction into mainstream culture! Stop by Angus Barn for me, I love that place
prime rib and sweet potato
FWIW - usually the term of art is "thermal runaway" and it happens in lithium batteries more often because they are significantly more energy dense. That combined with the chemical reactions of the battery components results in bad outcomes. Once the heat and discharge exceeds a critical point where one or more cells start to melt and decompose the chain of successive chemical reactions between the various components release flammable gasses and shortly in succession release oxygen. Since the combustible gasses and oxygen are both released together with a lot of heat - it's basically a self sufficient fire that will continue to restart and can't be smothered - super difficult to extinguish.
But - gasoline burns pretty well too and we've learned to manage it and make it safe. Don't put the gas tanks outside the frame rails. Put a firewall between the hot and flammable stuff and the people. That sort of thing. Lithium batteries should be very safe if the vehicle is engineered properly. In this case - I'd rather have a lithium battery that's smaller in size and mounted outside of the passenger cabin and properly waterproofed. The Ford powerboost is a better battery configuration.
But - gasoline burns pretty well too and we've learned to manage it and make it safe. Don't put the gas tanks outside the frame rails. Put a firewall between the hot and flammable stuff and the people. That sort of thing. Lithium batteries should be very safe if the vehicle is engineered properly. In this case - I'd rather have a lithium battery that's smaller in size and mounted outside of the passenger cabin and properly waterproofed. The Ford powerboost is a better battery configuration.
Only in Texas would you casually drive with the family in a crossover to a summer bbq and bring with you a smoker so big it is built on a trailer. I want to go to that family's picnic!
I'm in Finland for work and this popped up as a Google ad:
www.rinta-jouppi.com
Looks like the LC250 here comes as a non-hybrid diesel! The only downside is that a used one with 3,000 km on it is 149,800 euros (about $170K USD)! According to my Finnish colleagues, that's a legit price as SUVs are taxed very, very high. There are definitely a few 120 and 150 series cruisers on the road, but they are pretty uncommon overall. I can see why if the cost encroaches into supercar money here...
Toyota Land Cruiser, 2024, 3 tkm - alk. 1 126 €/kk
Esittelyauto Toyota Land Cruiser, 2024. Ajettu 3 000 km. Rinta-Joupin Autoliike Oy, Pori. 2.8 D-4D Executive Automaatti - Heti toimitukseen! LED ajovalot, Lämmitettävä ohjauspyörä, Älykäs mukautuva vakionopeussäädin
www.rinta-jouppi.com
Looks like the LC250 here comes as a non-hybrid diesel! The only downside is that a used one with 3,000 km on it is 149,800 euros (about $170K USD)! According to my Finnish colleagues, that's a legit price as SUVs are taxed very, very high. There are definitely a few 120 and 150 series cruisers on the road, but they are pretty uncommon overall. I can see why if the cost encroaches into supercar money here...
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The Australian YouTube channel 24/7 4WD just released videos of their incredible journey through flooded desert in Australia.
The star of the show beating Land Cruiser 79, Nissan patrol, 120 prado, Mitsubishi Pajero, Ford Ranger,….the new Prado 250 diesel
There’s the keyboard warriors and then there’s the actual terrain warrior!
If you watch the actual video of their ordeal…I can’t believe what Prado 250 was able to do…and they didn’t even get a chance to install a snorkel for this trip
The star of the show beating Land Cruiser 79, Nissan patrol, 120 prado, Mitsubishi Pajero, Ford Ranger,….the new Prado 250 diesel
There’s the keyboard warriors and then there’s the actual terrain warrior!
If you watch the actual video of their ordeal…I can’t believe what Prado 250 was able to do…and they didn’t even get a chance to install a snorkel for this trip
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Such an amazing video.
While the video is awesome and what these dude’s did turned out pretty crazy and it is good to see a relative new 250 Prado in action, also the Ford Ranger made it to the end. And yes it is a diesel which would be less prone to electric issues when being submerged with the drive train for prolonged times.
Any info on if the LC250 diesel in non-USDM markets shares the same drivetrain components (i.e, 8-speed and 8.2 diff) as our USDM version?
A quick look of the AUDM stats are interesting. It still had a relatively weak payload capacity (1,300 lbs), high curb weight (5,500 lbs), but yet an impressive towing capacity (7,700 lbs). If this rig still shares the smaller 8.2 diff and other components, I'm struggling to see how it gained about 300-500 pounds over the GX460/Prado 150. But, all of these numbers are an improvement relative to the USDM LC250.
| Toyota LandCruiser Prado GX | Toyota LandCruiser Prado GXL (kg) | Toyota LandCruiser Prado GXL (lb) |
| Seats | 5 | |
| Kerb weight | 2495 | 5489 |
| Payload capacity | 605 | 1331 |
| Gross vehicle mass (GVM) | 3100 | 6820 |
| Braked towing capacity | 3500 | 7700 |
| Gross combination mass (GCM) | 6600 | 14520 |
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The ford ranger made it but it needed a big push from the Toyota 79…the ford went limp mode
They are based on the same TNGA-F platform, so likely share 8-speed and rear differential size…but I have no insight…maybe diesel engine and components weight a little more than the hybrid gas engine
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Awesome they did a 0.8 mile water crossing pushing another car. I've never been stupid enough to mess with lots of water, but that's just crazy. The idea that you can push another car to give them some extra go and capitalize on their bow wave is completely new to me, but makes perfect sense. Kind of reminds me of old-timey mountaineers tying themselves together for a glacier traverse. Also pretty intense that multiple vehicles lost their alternators in the process. Australian wheeling is definitely different.
It's about 200-300# lighter than the USDM LC250, which is in turn is about 600# heavier than a GX460 and very similar in weight to a LC200. Overall they are pretty heavy rigs relative to the size....i wish Toyota would have kept them around 5,000# total (same as a GX470).
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I’ll try. I wanted a 200 but Covid pricing jacked the used prices past where I wanted to go. I can afford anything but I don’t.
So I looked at everything: older LC/460 etc, other Toyotas, Ineos, MB, Jeep, LRs…
I drove most but reliability, mpg (I’m getting 22 in blue ridge foothills), size, and features of the 250 just fit the bill. I won’t give a forensic breakdown of why the others didn’t. I came closest to the bronco actually.
I don’t care if it’s a “real LC” or not - this is a young man’s argument. I don’t really care what the name is at all. All the V8, lineage, hybrid, nanny stuff - you win.
Some of you have traveled around the world and driven in remote places w/o support, or fuel for miles, or RTT’s or awnings or compressors - as I have. I’ve seen more Samurais, X-trails, small Pajeros and 4cyl hodgepodge garage builds conquer mud and sand than the big expensive ones. I had an X-trail years ago that climbed better than my FJs, tacos, jeeps and buddy’s defenders. A little crappy, plasticky (not a word I think?) 4-cyl - like a mountain goat.
And in most places (even most places here in the states), people don’t care about any of this stuff. They have fun going, and enjoy the life when they get there.
You probably wanted me to “prove my case”, and now defend it. I can answer specific questions if you have some. But I’m older now and enjoy this thing in the sand and snow (not a big mud guy). I guess that’s it.
I still want that Heritage version. Hope we cross paths in Hatteras some time.
You might not believe it but I very much respect the GX/Prado and even LC250. Broader than that, I'm not beholden to Toyota/Lexus and really can appreciate the value of all cars. I've owned a 4Runner myself, vouched for my parents to own an GX, and have had a 100-series and 200-series. They each have merits and a place, because we all have different priorities and needs.
I run with a hugely varied group of rigs. Each has strengths to suit their owners needs. And each has compromises, including the 200-series. But for what I need to do, nothing comes close.
And that's the crux of this discussion. There are expectations for what a full fat Land Cruiser will do, carry, or tow. The new LC250 is a wholly different beast that can do many overlapping things and do them well. If 75% of the capability and capacities is what's needed in trade for more efficiency, then the LC250 can be a great answer. But it does not have the same core strength of a full fat Land Cruiser if full strength is the need and expectation.
That's not meant to cast shade on the LC250. It's just a fact. Potential owners should respect and understand the difference, so as not to buy the wrong vehicle, or project what others may or may not need.
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Great points of course. That’s a cool picture - wish they made a rack for the 250 like the bronco rack - how it wraps over the front a bit.
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The ranger went limp at the end I think it also toasted an alternator.
Maybe I’m thinking wrong, but didn’t they also have to put Holden fans in the Ranger at the beginning of the video.
