Timkin vs. Koyo Wheel bearings

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VADUS said:
You are asking me that, because you probably know, that Toyota will never provide these specs. to a simple user. That is why all I can do, is to make an assumptions. I am not insisting on my opinion, may be I am wrong. But I see all these facts quite interesting: we have an older model with two available part numbers, also we have a newer and heavier models with only one available Timken number from previous two... Why is that?
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As I stated before, it is due to supplier agreements that Toyota has with various suppliers. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
May be this is so simple ... But I have a little doubts about all of these facts. I've finally decided to pay a little more and ordered Timken numbers.
 
VADUS said:
I've just explained above, that it is about weight capacity of a bearing. If someone can't see those simple things, or can't use the EPC to follow it, then I can only say, that I'm sorry). Lots of aftermarket bearings have a "HI CAP" specs, and it is usually written on a box. In Toyota they don't do that, they just change the part number.
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I’m confused by your assertion given that Koyo bearings themselves are stamped or engraved with “Hi-cap” or “HC.”

What are we missing?
 
VADUS said:
Message 37.
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I don’t understand your questions.
90368-45087 replaced 90080-36067 and functions across multiple applications likely to simplify logistics and phase out old parts in the catalog.

The bearings have been tested to meet their operating requirements, it has nothing to do with just capacity.

The TLC100 is also not 300kgs more. It’s GVWR is maybe 130 lbs more and likewise the TLC105 is essentially the same GVWR.
 
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JoeCova said:
I don’t understand your questions.
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The question is simple: if it is a matter of suppliers and agreements, why do we have the following situation on the particular model of the TLC80:
The front bearings have two option - Timken 90080-36067 и Koyo 90368-45087, but the rear bearings are only Timken 90080-36067 ?
JoeCova said:
The TLC100 is also not 300kgs more. It’s GVWR is maybe 130 lbs more and likewise the TLC105 is essentially the same GVWR.
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TLC80 VX with diesel 7 seats is about 2250-2300 kg. depending on options. TLC100 VX with diesel 7 seats is about 2510-2550 kg. The difference is about 250-300 kg.
 
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VADUS said:
The question is simple: if it is a matter of suppliers and agreements, why do we have the following situation on the particular model of the TLC80:
The front bearings have two option - Timken 90080-36067 и Koyo 90368-45087, but the rear bearings are only Timken 90080-36067 ?
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90080-36067 is discontinued.

There is only 90368-45087

What two options are you talking about
 
I am talking about these two option, when 90080-36067 was NOT discontinued. According to the EPC, they both were available simultaneously for my car on front hub, to be exact: from 08.1994 by 01.1998. However, for the same car, the rear hub bearings have only one Timken 90080-36067 option: from 03.1995 by 01.1998. How come is that? Another assumption of mine - the "HI CAP" is very broad definition. Nobody have a precise value for a load capacity of these Toyota bearings. It might differs.
P.S. And I have ordered 90080-36067 part number. Will see if I receive a substitute tomorrow.....
 
VADUS said:
The question is simple: if it is a matter of suppliers and agreements, why do we have the following situation on the particular model of the TLC80:
The front bearings have two option - Timken 90080-36067 и Koyo 90368-45087, but the rear bearings are only Timken 90080-36067 ?

TLC80 VX with diesel 7 seats is about 2250-2300 kg. depending on options. TLC100 VX with diesel 7 seats is about 2510-2550 kg. The difference is about 250-300 kg.
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According to what? My door sticker says 2960kg

Which is the same as this 2005 VX is the same.

Dinshaw

Thread 'Gross Vehicle Weight'

I have a 2005 VX Limited LC.
1. The Gross Vehicle weight mentioned is 2,940 kg (the Net Vehicle weight is 2,480 kg). It says the Payload is 350 kg. Does this mean that I can only load up upto 350 kg? If there are 5 persons in the car it comes to around 300kg in itself- not to mention fuel, water, baggage, etc. Can someone please advise me exactly how much I can actually load up for an overlanding journey?
2. How can I find out the true MAXIMUM Axle load? Is there something on the axle itself?
Many thanks. Dinshaw
 
According to my documents data (it is precise) Curb weight is 2300, maximum is 3050. Check the DIESEL VX TLC 100 curb weight - it is about 2550 kg.
 
VADUS said:
According to my documents data (it is precise) Curb weight is 2300, maximum is 3050. Check the DIESEL VX TLC 100 curb weight - it is about 2550 kg.
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Who gives a s*** about curb weight. A vehicle isn’t driven and used at curb weight, bearings aren’t tested for curb weight.
 
VADUS said:
The question is simple: if it is a matter of suppliers and agreements, why do we have the following situation on the particular model of the TLC80:
The front bearings have two option - Timken 90080-36067 и Koyo 90368-45087, but the rear bearings are only Timken 90080-36067 ?
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Again, implementation of parts to a specific vehicle and its determination for different markets is based on agreements made with suppliers in different regions of the world and to different model specifications.

Toyota is merely stating that based on vehicle market specification, numerous part numbers will work.

And in the real world, IE, people who build and maintain Land Cruisers on a daily basis, the bearings are interchangeable.

And in all honesty, no one really gives a shǐt. Timken and Koyo are both OEM suppliers to the Land Cruiser vehicle platform.

Both will be fine in every instance.
 
JoeCova said:
Who gives a s*** about curb weight. A vehicle isn’t driven and used at curb weight, bearings aren’t tested for curb weight.
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Bro, Do you have high blood pressure ! 😵‍💫
 
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Ok guys, you were right and I was wrong. Supplier sent me a substitution numbers of Koyo. Usually they tell about it beforehand, but this time they didn't tell me anything, that is why I've decided, that the Timken part is available. In fact, it is really discontinued.... And I just took that nonsense from the EPC too seriously. Finally, I refused from those Koyo bearings, because we have a HUGE problem with fake Koyo parts in out market. I'll better go with something else Japan made, like NTN.
 
VADUS said:
Ok guys, you were right and I was wrong. Supplier sent me a substitution numbers of Koyo. Usually they tell about it beforehand, but this time they didn't tell me anything, that is why I've decided, that the Timken part is available. In fact, it is really discontinued.... And I just took that nonsense from the EPC too seriously. Finally, I refused from those Koyo bearings, because we have a HUGE problem with fake Koyo parts in out market. I'll better go with something else Japan made, like NTN.
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Next round is on me, 🍻
 
A small continuation of this story. I checked the technical data for these bearings, and it is the following: (let's look on a small one LM 102949 / LM102910):

___________________________NTN__________ Koyo________Timken
Static load (N)___________76000__________78100_________81800
Dynamic Load (N)_______60000__________70000_________72900
Fatigue load limit (N)_____9300__________11400__________9980

Fatigue load limit for Timken obtained with online calculator from Timken official website. It produces bearing fatigue life in hours (L10) according to the inputed conditions (rpms and loads), and also shows constant Fatigue load limit (N) as 9980N. Koyo is slightly out of the table for this parameter - looks a little strange.
So, I tried to find an authentic Timken, but it looks like we have only fake ones in city. None of them passed WBA application test. And they also look like fake. Didn't even try to find an original Koyo for the same reason. Finally, I have found an original NTN and bought it - they look right and they've positively passed WBA application check out. If I were in US, I would definitely go with original aftermarket Timken instead of original Toyota Koyo part.

cad.timken.com

Part Number LM102949 - LM102910, Tapered Roller Bearings - TS (Tapered Single) Imperial On The Timken Company

Browse Part Number LM102949 - LM102910, Tapered Roller Bearings - TS (Tapered Single) Imperial in the The Timken Company catalog including Part Number,Item Name,Description,Series,Cone Part Number,Cup Part Number,d - Bore,D - Cup Outer Diameter,B - C
cad.timken.com cad.timken.com

LM102949/10 / Product detail / Koyo Bearings (JTEKT)

koyo.jtekt.co.jp koyo.jtekt.co.jp
 
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My last step in Timken searching was a visit to Land Rover part dealer. They have Cruiser small hub bearing as a diff. bearings on LR. So, it was a minimal risk of getting a fake part there, and the price was higher about 5 times instead of other stores. First thing I made was checking the boxes with WBA application, and the result was positive. It brought a hope to me, and I opened the box and took the bearing out of the plastic bag. To my surprise, the bearing had a slightly noticeable laser engraving on it. So, it definitely was NOT a bearing, made in US, which suppose to have a stamped letters on the metal surface. I didn't buy it and shared this information with the guys on our domestic forum. One of them told me, that he bought the same Timken bearings in a big US store, and he was surprised just like me when he opened the boxes: my description completely matches his impressions - same weak engraving etc. So, we came to the conclusion, that it might be an authentic Timken, but which is made in China, not in US plant. And that makes a big difference in comparison Japanese Koyo, NTN and Chinese Timken.
Finally, I found an authentic Koyo bearings at the same dealer, where I bought NTN and bought the Koyo also. According to the official bearing specs, it looks like Koyo a little more hardly tempered, than Timken. That is why Koyo has higher fatigue load limit and lower max. dynamic and static loads. For the big bearing JLM104948 / JLM104910 the situation is pretty similar:
__________________________NTN___________Koyo_______Timken
Static load (N)___________94000__________97900_______104000
Dynamic Load (N)_______77500__________90000________96300
Fatigue load limit (N)____11500__________14700________12700
 
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