Time to sell my Montero and buy a LX!

[chriscosta416]

No, I did install them. But until then there was no way to know for sure

gotcha!

 

[1world1love]

This is really eye opening, I cannot understand how folks say AHC is ineffective now. It sounds like a very tremendous system

I think it mainly stems from 1) the school of thought that says you need to get out of stock suspension more generally (ie somebody that buys a LC and immediately replaces every component with something aftermarket for no better reason than they think they should and 2) the association of adjustable and dynamic suspension with the failures of previous versions (ie rovers and jeeps), but those are all air and poorly designed but people don't make the connection.

While I love it and it does everything I could ask, I can see why some people don't prefer it. Some people like to tinker and it is not a system that lends itself to tinkering much. Also there are limits to lift, though these are not absolute and people have done some very creative things to add lift.

Usually, when we are out on trail runs, I am almost always the "highest" rig of the bunch, and often avoid scraping when others do. Additionally, I can get an additional inch on top of what I already have, so that is easily 4 inches over stock.

And while there is related PM and potential long term maintenance, but people often neglect to consider that conventional suspensions are often heavy maintenance burdens, with some components needing rebuilt at 30k or so. There are some LXs that have gone over 200k with no PM at all.

 

[chriscosta416]

IMO I feel that LX570s are cheaper right now because they are "harder" to modify for instagram. Unlike 4runners, tacos, and land cruisers where you can immediately bolt up a bunch of stuff you will rarely use, cause it "looks cool"

My 2 cents, at least from living in SoCal and seeing what fancy car camping has become

 

[Tex68w]

It's more about the fact that they sell 3-4 times as many LX's every year than they do LC's, simple supply and demand dictates the resale value here. The mass majority of those are in very good shape coming off of three year leases. The LX is becoming more popular in the off-road scene just like the GX and a lot of it has to do with the quality and accessories they come with standard for the money. In terms of purchasing power, your money goes further on the secondary market with a Lexus product.

It might even be safe to say that on this forum, within the 200 sub-forum, there are more LX owners than LC owners. I'd be interested in seeing if that holds true and I just might start a poll to see the outcome now that I think about it.

 

[chriscosta416]

It's more about the fact that they sell 3-4 times as many LX's every year than they do LC's, simple supply and demand dictates the resale value here. The mass majority of those are in very good shape coming off of three year leases. The LX is becoming more popular in the off-road scene just like the GX and a lot of it has to do with the quality and accessories they come with standard for the money. In terms of purchasing power, your money goes further on the secondary market with a Lexus product.

It might even be safe to say that on this forum, within the 200 sub-forum, there are more LX owners than LC owners. I'd be interested in seeing if that holds true and I just might start a poll to see the outcome now that I think about it.

I hope I can snag one before prices rise even more

 

[grinchy]

Shhhh!

 

[bloc]

Along with the LXs coming off lease the new landcruiser buyers tend to keep theirs for a very long time. Top of the list of initial ownership of any vehicle, for a long time now.

Just one more reason there are less landcruisers on the used market, and prices will be higher as a result.

Based on some comments, I think it also should be said, the static suspension thinking doesn't completely translate to AHC. It's not the same game played on the LC to tune spring rates and dampers to get the right load handling. The AHC system is already capable of managing that, handling up to ~1800lbs without any help. Not just handling, but dialing in the suspension to handle 1800lbs, so it's not feeling wallowy or underdamped at that level. Because the system will have automatically compensated for it with increased spring rate and damping so it feels generally dialed whether empty or loaded.

Go beyond - sure, there's more strategies to do so and that's where augmentation comes in. Augmentation is not tuning the suspension for load - it does that automatically. It's supporting the system to handle and compensate for additional load. So it can continue to go into high mode for example. Or do so with large sensor lifts.

Copying from another thread, and may help here:

Am I thinking about things wrong to assume the system would be happiest if you could increase the AHC coil rate such that at the new “built” weight required stock system pressures to achieve stock ride height?

Weren’t there special springs for uparmored 200s using AHC?

 

[lx200inAR]

Along with the LXs coming off lease the new landcruiser buyers tend to keep theirs for a very long time. Top of the list of initial ownership of any vehicle, for a long time now.

Just one more reason there are less landcruisers on the used market, and prices will be higher as a result.



Am I thinking about things wrong to assume the system would be happiest if you could increase the AHC coil rate such that at the new “built” weight required stock system pressures to achieve stock ride height?

Weren’t there special springs for uparmored 200s using AHC?

I definitely think that the ideal state is when AHC system pressures are as close to stock as possible, no matter what else is going on. That would give the system the most bandwidth to deal with whatever factors come it’s way.

I also believe that the system is designed to adapt outside of that ideal range, otherwise why even have a dynamic system?

On the market realities. I agree with all of @bloc’s points. Throw in the super strong nameplate of Land Cruiser and it’s a recipe for higher prices.
When I started shopping for a rig, I certainly was shopping for a LC, because that’s what I knew. 3 years ago, I didn’t honestly know that a LX was a gussied up LC. And I wouldn’t consider myself “not a car guy”, although admittedly lacking in SUV/Off-road historical knowledge. In the end, I decided to trade the sport car dream for the off-road dream, since one is more legal than the other at the extremes.

 

[TeCKis300]

Am I thinking about things wrong to assume the system would be happiest if you could increase the AHC coil rate such that at the new “built” weight required stock system pressures to achieve stock ride height?

Weren’t there special springs for uparmored 200s using AHC?

There's trades. The goal is not necessarily to get completely back to stock pressures with a really heavy truck. The AHC system needs pressure within the hydraulic system to apply corresponding damping. By putting too much static weight or too much percentage of that weight onto the coil springs, the hydraulic system looses some margin of influence. The system can still work well in both configs because it has feedback loops and will adapt to a degree within its authority of control. As I've found playing with airbags. When going too far outside the balance, then using manual damping controls to bias can help. Likely why the earlier comments where some rigs needed to use higher damping settings. To @lx200inAR point, we want to keep some margin of hydraulic payload handling so we can always get into high.

The uparmored 200s are an enigma and I would love to learn more details. 8k-9k lb rigs. I know they had different shocks and likely springs. It's possible they have higher static damping shim stacks in the shocks. Possibly they had higher pressure globes. Possible they worked with the OEM to develop a completely different calibration. Or maybe none of that as I'm just guessing at unobtanium. Either way, at least personally, I don't really have a want for more because with just a little tinkering and for my use, it just works.

 

[bloc]

There's trades. The goal is not necessarily to get completely back to stock pressures with a really heavy truck. The AHC system needs pressure within the hydraulic system to apply corresponding damping. By putting too much static weight or too much percentage of that weight onto the coil springs, the hydraulic system looses some margin of influence. The system can still work well in both configs because it has feedback loops and will adapt to a degree within its authority of control. As I've found playing with airbags. When going too far outside the balance, then using manual damping controls to bias can help. Likely why the earlier comments where some rigs needed to use higher damping settings. To @lx200inAR point, we want to keep some margin of hydraulic payload handling so we can always get into high.

The uparmored 200s are an enigma and I would love to learn more details. 8k-9k lb rigs. I know they had different shocks and likely springs. It's possible they have higher static damping shim stacks in the shocks. Possibly they had higher pressure globes. Possible they worked with the OEM to develop a completely different calibration. Or maybe none of that as I'm just guessing at unobtanium. Either way, at least personally, I don't really have a want for more because with just a little tinkering and for my use, it just works.

The concept of not enough system pressure to get effective damping totally makes sense, but are you suggesting the system *needs* corresponding increased pressure over stock to have increased damping also?

I fully understand your system works as you've tweaked it, but welcome to my brain. Usually seeking to understand and when possible, optimize. Until I see a squirrel anyway.

 

[chriscosta416]

Hoping to re-ignite this thread so I can avoid making a new post. A nice LX showed up in Santa Barbara for 30k with 112k miles but sadly someone snatched it up today

I am looking at another one - 09 with 98k and I pulled up the Lexus service records and the battery was replaced every single year. And I mean the battery has been replaced at least 9 times per the service records. All at the same Lexus dealer. Description is "Customer states, battery died, had to jump start. Inspected battery, dead cell - replaced. Tested charging system - OK"


SO - I have a few theories one is

- Interior device /light left on (maybe a forgetful old couple)
- bad voltage regulator (lazy tech)
- Or potential other wiring issue?


Thoughts anyone?

 

[grinchy]

Hoping to re-ignite this thread so I can avoid making a new post. A nice LX showed up in Santa Barbara for 30k with 112k miles but sadly someone snatched it up today

I am looking at another one - 09 with 98k and I pulled up the Lexus service records and the battery was replaced every single year. And I mean the battery has been replaced at least 9 times per the service records. All at the same Lexus dealer. Description is "Customer states, battery died, had to jump start. Inspected battery, dead cell - replaced. Tested charging system - OK"


SO - I have a few theories one is

- Interior device /light left on (maybe a forgetful old couple)
- bad voltage regulator (lazy tech)
- Or potential other wiring issue?


Thoughts anyone?

It’s a Lexus. Many buyers are not mechanically inclined And just take the rig to the dealer. Probably nothing at all, but could need a new alternator/ voltage regulator.

 

[Madtiger]

It’s a Lexus. Many buyers are not mechanically inclined And just take the rig to the dealer. Probably nothing at all, but could need a new alternator/ voltage regulator.

Yeah but for Lexus dealer to replace battery under warranty means that there is something wrong………it was not done because owner is an idiot or Lexus dealer had nothing better to do….

If i have a dead battery from a dealer replacement, then why would i go anywhere else to get another one? Even if mechanically inclined?

 

[grinchy]

Ok. The reports say bad cell. So they replaced it. I got nothing but conjecture.

 

[AnyMal]

I had a battery overflow for some reason, probably extreme heat or cold or something, and corroded the j clamp pads. Dealer wouldnt replace it despite warranty. A little top up and clean up at home ive had zero issues.

New battery tech upgrade hasnt been sorted yet by @grinchy so penny saved for now.

 

[1world1love]

Hoping to re-ignite this thread so I can avoid making a new post. A nice LX showed up in Santa Barbara for 30k with 112k miles but sadly someone snatched it up today

I am looking at another one - 09 with 98k and I pulled up the Lexus service records and the battery was replaced every single year. And I mean the battery has been replaced at least 9 times per the service records. All at the same Lexus dealer. Description is "Customer states, battery died, had to jump start. Inspected battery, dead cell - replaced. Tested charging system - OK"


SO - I have a few theories one is

- Interior device /light left on (maybe a forgetful old couple)
- bad voltage regulator (lazy tech)
- Or potential other wiring issue?


Thoughts anyone?

9 battery replacements is a bit unusual for sure, but it is hard to say. A bad cell is not surprising, but 9 of them? Its just too hard to say.

I can imagine somebody who doesn't realize the cargo light stays on and of course over time that could damage the battery, but 9 times is hard to believe.

 

[chriscosta416]

9 battery replacements is a bit unusual for sure, but it is hard to say. A bad cell is not surprising, but 9 of them? Its just too hard to say.

I can imagine somebody who doesn't realize the cargo light stays on and of course over time that could damage the battery, but 9 times is hard to believe.

That is my thinking as well, I would assume a dealer can easily figure out if its a bad alt, unless its a sign there is some other electrical gremlin Car has been in SoCal its whole life.

 

[bloc]

Maybe it would sit for months at a time on Nantucket Island?

 

[1world1love]

That is my thinking as well, I would assume a dealer can easily figure out if its a bad alt, unless its a sign there is some other electrical gremlin Car has been in SoCal its whole life.

I guess you could figure out the worst case scenario and have them deduct that.

Honestly, if there are no other electrical issues reported, it can only be so many things.

 

[chriscosta416]

I guess you could figure out the worst case scenario and have them deduct that.

Honestly, if there are no other electrical issues reported, it can only be so many things.

ill do my best to be a shrewd negotiator. I have someone looking at the Montero tuesday, hopefully they buy!