Time to sell my Montero and buy a LX!

[AnyMal]

@1world1love has the rear TT springs already if I recall. I no longer use comfort mode for same reason and I dont think springs would help much. Both of us have heavy rigs and are outside of the useful dampening envelope that comfort is designed for.

Rear only?

The more we are learning about AHC the more confident i am that it can be augmented.
The first place i would go is larger globes. I think that gas charge is the weakest link in the line and is overwhelmed.
If a suitably sized globe cant be found, we could even bypass valve double OEM globe it.
You could run a restricting line to the globe to tighten it up too.
My mind has been thinking a lot about higher viscosity fluid.
I need a proper engineers opinion though i am guessing at things.

 

[TeCKis300]

Rear only?

The more we are learning about AHC the more confident i am that it can be augmented.
The first place i would go is larger globes. I think that gas charge is the weakest link in the line and is overwhelmed.
If a suitably sized globe cant be found, we could even bypass valve double OEM globe it.
You could run a restricting line to the globe to tighten it up too.
My mind has been thinking a lot about higher viscosity fluid.
I need a proper engineers opinion though i am guessing at things.

We should probably talk about this in the augmentation thread. But a few quick notes.

- More globe volume or doubling up globes won't help as that actually decreases sprint rate. What we could use for the heaviest of us is to find high pressure charge globes (IIRC stock is ~400PSI). Yet that's what's happening anyways as the stock globes work in progressive manner. So long as the globes are healthy and have enough nitrogen volume for the membrane not to bottom out.
- Damping is a separate function and what's going on as @tbisaacs mentions, is that that heavy rigs need to now operate at the upper part of the damping calibration envelop. Especially if augmenting with more physical spring either by spacer preload or something like the TT springs. Akin to a static tunable damper suspension, going underneath to turn some mechanical dials, the easy button on the LX is to switch to normal or sport.
- The system is active. Very active. Now that @lx200inAR got us the AHC dashboard, it's constantly tweaking the dampers to suit. And even that is probably low fidelity to what the system is really doing as we're limited by the OBD-II interface. Out of 16 damper positions, normal operates about position 8. Comfort operates approximately nearer 4, and sport nearer 12. Though the system will liberally use the whole spectrum. One of the most interesting things is how often it's switching to the heavier front spring rate. Brakes and cornering for sure, but I found it to be used for steeper downhills for stability and mitigate dive.

The 300-series looks to get dual spring rate function for the rear axle too.

 

[chriscosta416]

To be fair it's more AHC vs KDSS in this imaginary rivalry, and no one is talking about removing KDSS.

And before anyone gets upset at me, check my first post in this thread refuting some of the AHC doom and gloom misconceptions of OP. AHC is an awesome system and without knowing him my guess is it would serve OP well.

I think some of the friction comes from AHC having been presented for years from certain members (one or two of whom I respect tremendously, I should add) as objectively superior to any other setup, ignoring the differing needs of a broad array of users. I pushed back against this narrative a long time ago, and will say I've noticed that stance soften somewhat over time.

Not that I'm saying this justifies the seeming personal insult level of offense someone here takes to AHC praise.

"Inferior" is a judgement by each potential buyer, then eventual owner. Right out of the gate some are going to consider the 20s, all the chrome, and the dodgy amplifiers enough to qualify as inferior. Others will cite the lack of a reliable, capable, adjustable suspension that allows easier fitment of larger tires AND for a higher price, as enough to label the LC as inferior. When I bought mine, top of the list, knowing my propensity to mod anything I get, the lack of ability to go tundra front end with the LX was enough to justify the LC money. As we all know that has since been accomplished and documented. Still, now that I own it, I'm glad I got the cruiser for the more understated and slightly more rugged appearance. And now that I know more I doubt I'll do the tundra suspension! But the LX is a good enough vehicle I likely would have bonded with that in a similar way..

So whatever. I'm technically team-KDSS but don't have much loyalty I guess.

Doom and gloom is what I read up on regarding AHC, but it seems to be limited to the earlier pre 200 series and GX crowd.


My original plan was to delete AHC when I get the truck, but after reading - I really want to try it out and wheel with it. We will see how it does in technical trails in AZ and Cali

 

[chriscosta416]

Meanwhile, the original poster runs away to buy a 4Runner.

HA nah, I had a 2011 and I am looking for an UPGRADE from my Montero - but I guess thats for another debate, I am going to get an LX, I am going to wheel it, maybe not hard for the first few years, but after reading everything I have faith in the AHC system.

 

[chriscosta416]

So, are you selling the Montero? Buying a LX? Need any tech advice?

I am selling my Montero, and I am buying an LX now more than ever to see what all the fuss is about with AHC - LOL

 

[chriscosta416]

We should probably talk about this in the augmentation thread. But a few quick notes.

- More globe volume or doubling up globes won't help as that actually decreases sprint rate. What we could use for the heaviest of us is to find high pressure charge globes (IIRC stock is ~400PSI). Yet that's what's happening anyways as the stock globes work in progressive manner. So long as the globes are healthy and have enough nitrogen volume for the membrane not to bottom out.
- Damping is a separate function and what's going on as @tbisaacs mentions, is that that heavy rigs need to now operate at the upper part of the damping calibration envelop. Especially if augmenting with more physical spring either by spacer preload or something like the TT springs. Akin to a static tunable damper suspension, going underneath to turn some mechanical dials, the easy button on the LX is to switch to normal or sport.
- The system is active. Very active. Now that @lx200inAR got us the AHC dashboard, it's constantly tweaking the dampers to suit. And even that is probably low fidelity to what the system is really doing as we're limited by the OBD-II interface. Out of 16 damper positions, normal operates about position 8. Comfort operates approximately nearer 4, and sport nearer 12. Though the system will liberally use the whole spectrum. One of the most interesting things is how often it's switching to the heavier front spring rate. Brakes and cornering for sure, but I found it to be used for steeper downhills for stability and mitigate dive.

The 300-series looks to get dual spring rate function for the rear axle too.

that is very very good to know - appreciate the tech insight. This may be a stupid question but what does the third row weigh? I plan on pulling it out and throwing in some simple drawers and was wondering IF the AHC will compensate and if not or even if it will - would a progressive coil in the rear play nice with the AHC in terms of assisting it?

 

[1world1love]

Yeah, definitely many ways to skin a cat. Removing AHC is certainly one, but there are many examples of alternative approaches to get where you want to be.

I think that some people come in with the image of Jeeps or rovers sitting on the trail with failed air suspensions or something and the first inclination is to rip it out. I think the idea of keeping it and pushing the limits to see how far you can take it sounds a lot more interesting to me.

 

[AnyMal]

that is very very good to know - appreciate the tech insight. This may be a stupid question but what does the third row weigh? I plan on pulling it out and throwing in some simple drawers and was wondering IF the AHC will compensate and if not or even if it will - would a progressive coil in the rear play nice with the AHC in terms of assisting it?

I believe mine was 110 lbs total? 4 bolts a side and super easy to do. I added it back after sensor lift to balance out rear weight.

 

[chriscosta416]

Yeah, definitely many ways to skin a cat. Removing AHC is certainly one, but there are many examples of alternative approaches to get where you want to be.

I think that some people come in with the image of Jeeps or rovers sitting on the trail with failed air suspensions or something and the first inclination is to rip it out. I think the idea of keeping it and pushing the limits to see how far you can take it sounds a lot more interesting to me.

When I thought of the LX suspension the first thing that did come to mind was air suspension and a failed LR3/4 on the trail but you learn something new everyday and I will see how it is on the trail.


@MODs no this is not my build thread BUT I would love to keep this thread going because I love to see info from the LC folks vs LX folks.

 

[1world1love]

that is very very good to know - appreciate the tech insight. This may be a stupid question but what does the third row weigh? I plan on pulling it out and throwing in some simple drawers and was wondering IF the AHC will compensate and if not or even if it will - would a progressive coil in the rear play nice with the AHC in terms of assisting it?

Nice. You don't have one yet, but are already asking the interesting questions. You'll fit right in.

If I were guessing, the third row is maybe ~75-100lbs. Drawers will be no problem and AHC will always compensate, no matter what.

 

[chriscosta416]

I believe mine was 110 lbs total? 4 bolts a side and super easy to do. I added it back after sensor lift to balance out rear weight.

So this sensor lift you mention keeps the truck in a "raised" height?

 

[1world1love]

So this sensor lift you mention keeps the truck in a "raised" height?

It really just raises the baseline for all modes. It is a very easy mod and allows you to add ~1 inch of height, again, in all modes.

 

[AnyMal]

So this sensor lift you mention keeps the truck in a "raised" height?

It basically makes your normal the old high mode. Done correctly you dont lose any of the height mode functionality. Ive also done a rear spring balance mod on mine and its played very nice ever since. Theres tolstoy levels of text to read on it so if you have any questions, youve got all the AHC heads here already as you can see.

 

[chriscosta416]

Appreciate the response from both of you and ill look into that sensor lift idea.

Regarding coils - As far as I read and expected, LC and LX rear coils are the same OD which means they fit the coil buckets. If I were to put in a LC200 progressive rate coil in the rear say 0-500lbs would it play nicely with the AHC system?

 

[TeCKis300]

AHC stock will compensate. It won't give up height when laden for a trip with more weight. The progressive spring rate will already have increased to better handle the load. And damping will be automatically adjusted to suit, with manual option to dial it in further.

I go from roughly stock weight to about 2k payload when setup for a trip and towing. The best part is that it's always dialed in. Don't worry about the system not being robust and it'll handle the job just fine. Get some time in on it, then decide if you need to do anything else.

 

[1world1love]

And to add, there is a great thread for LX pics, but it also is a good source of info, as long as you can deal with every other post which is "What size tire and does it rub?"

 

[chriscosta416]

And to add, there is a great thread for LX pics, but it also is a good source of info, as long as you can deal with every other post which is "What size tire and does it rub?"

How about "can I fit 33s without a lift?"

I kid - btw - these emojis remind me of 4x4wire

 

[TeCKis300]

@1world1love , have you put your rig on a scale? Or do you have a good idea what weight you're at?

@radman is pretty built out too. I think he had some scale slips?

I've seen 5100lbs on my rear axle alone when towing. AHC trucks along just dandy.

 

[1world1love]

Appreciate the response from both of you and ill look into that sensor lift idea.

Regarding coils - As far as I read and expected, LC and LX rear coils are the same OD which means they fit the coil buckets. If I were to put in a LC200 progressive rate coil in the rear say 0-500lbs would it play nicely with the AHC system?

The short answer is no.

If you feel like you need to account for substantial additional weight, you have a couple of options:

- Add coil spacers
- Replace the springs with aftermarket springs made specifically for AHC

In both cases, you are really just adding a little extra tension to handle extra weight.

Many people do neither and are fine. A lot of people have done the first option. I have done the second option.

 

[1world1love]

Sorry, I should add to the above that you would need to use aftermarket coils for the 100 series AHC as there is not currently an option specific to the 200 series, but they fit just fine.

Spring spacers are widely available in different sizes and easy to install.