While the geometry looks good, your lower link mounts are clearly nasty rock hangers. I would revise.
Builds This Is Not A F-king Jeep
- Thread starter notaf-ingjeep
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- #22
They hang low for sure, but not lower than the t,case. They totally guard the drum as it hangs the lowest and would be exposed if the brackets were shorter. I left a ton of material there as well, it's 5/8" plate I machined a step in them to clear the heim. So it's about 1/2" thick were it will be getting bashed, and plenty below to damage. The cruiser drivetrain hangs low, so I didn't see the harm. I don't plan to change the drivetrain. I plan to update my skid plate with some "sleds" or "ramps" to take out that edge. I built the skid plate before the 4-link. After I do the front linkage it will be better as well. But your right, in hind site I might have mounted it all an inch or so higher in the frame. But I believe that it would change the arc that it travels on, and it travels just as it needs.
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Real Life experience: The frame gets dragged across rocks 10X more than anything between the frame rails. You drive over rocks not thru them, axle is in the way…. The only time the reasoning of them being as low as the t-case works is in ledge situations. Add on top that they are in the middle of the frame is going to bring the suck and frustration. I would lower the whole truck to keep your squat low and tuck the rod ends right against the frame with ramped brackets.
When I still had a stock t-case in my truck I clocked the entire drivetrain up, got rid of the e-brake and turned the drum off all in the name of clearance.
When I still had a stock t-case in my truck I clocked the entire drivetrain up, got rid of the e-brake and turned the drum off all in the name of clearance.
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- #24
I could move them up a little higher like I said. To stay true to the design of this 4-link they are gonna hang down no matter what. Some of those photos make it look worse than it is. I also planned on the skid plate helping the situation. I just haven't finished it yet, it would look better if it was. On top of that I could only make them 1.25 " shorter at most. There is no more frame to work with after that for the upper mounts. Also this would expose the t. case below.
One must consider also that the lowest part of the t.case is offset to the passenger side, and not in the center. I'm not gonna raise the whole drive train up, I feel the weight is better off low. I would however like to move the whole drive train back and extend the front axle forward more a few inches. This would center the weight between the axles, and make for better balance. Because of how I built the rear, if I did all this with a 4-link up front. I'd possibly even drop the whole drive train and inch or two along with moving it rearwards. As my lower brackets for the front 4-link would be the same, and hang just as low. I would have all the protection I'd need for the drivetrain. Lots of work to the firewall and such, but I'm all about the "mid engine" idea. This might not be the way most would do it, but nearly the same results could be achieved relating to center of gravity.
We'll see how much of a problem it is, I'm not exactly stoked on it either. I still think it is the best way to deal with "the nature of the beast" in this case. It won't be perfect no matter what. I went for protection, and also the path the axle travels having the mounts located in the frame where they are. If I moved them higher it would change the pivot point of the suspension in relation to the frame.
As it sets now it is right at the pivot point of the arc the axle travels on, at ride height. When the suspension travels up it the axle gets closer, and it does the same when it drops. This helps correct the forward lean of my coilovers in both directions of the suspension travel. It also helps keep the axle closer to square with the frame when it's all twisted up. I can't lower it any more as the coilovers wont fit how I wanted them to. Also I can't make the front suspension any lower than it is already without a 4-link, and major body work all around. Even with the 1.5" wheel spacers I installed my tires still rub under articulation. At this point it isn't a full on buggy, and I wanted a floor in the back for stuff. I want a 4-link up front, but it wont likely happen too soon. I'm ready to play with it.
One must consider also that the lowest part of the t.case is offset to the passenger side, and not in the center. I'm not gonna raise the whole drive train up, I feel the weight is better off low. I would however like to move the whole drive train back and extend the front axle forward more a few inches. This would center the weight between the axles, and make for better balance. Because of how I built the rear, if I did all this with a 4-link up front. I'd possibly even drop the whole drive train and inch or two along with moving it rearwards. As my lower brackets for the front 4-link would be the same, and hang just as low. I would have all the protection I'd need for the drivetrain. Lots of work to the firewall and such, but I'm all about the "mid engine" idea. This might not be the way most would do it, but nearly the same results could be achieved relating to center of gravity.
We'll see how much of a problem it is, I'm not exactly stoked on it either. I still think it is the best way to deal with "the nature of the beast" in this case. It won't be perfect no matter what. I went for protection, and also the path the axle travels having the mounts located in the frame where they are. If I moved them higher it would change the pivot point of the suspension in relation to the frame.
As it sets now it is right at the pivot point of the arc the axle travels on, at ride height. When the suspension travels up it the axle gets closer, and it does the same when it drops. This helps correct the forward lean of my coilovers in both directions of the suspension travel. It also helps keep the axle closer to square with the frame when it's all twisted up. I can't lower it any more as the coilovers wont fit how I wanted them to. Also I can't make the front suspension any lower than it is already without a 4-link, and major body work all around. Even with the 1.5" wheel spacers I installed my tires still rub under articulation. At this point it isn't a full on buggy, and I wanted a floor in the back for stuff. I want a 4-link up front, but it wont likely happen too soon. I'm ready to play with it.
Sorry to hijack but how did you clock the entire drive train up? Re drill your tranny mounts on the bellhousing?
EWheeler
GOLD Star
x2. I would love nothing more than to have a flat belly without the bling transfercases & adapters right now.
x3....how?
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- #28
Got all that aspect ratio figured and have new photos as well. Here is photo of the coilover towers.... well one of the two. Another photo of the upper and lower link brackets on the frame.
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- #29
Here are a couple more photos. One is of the cruiser before all this 4-link business, just soa in the rear. The other is one of my swampers all torn up because I like to get on it!
I did it via spacers under motor mounts, rotated the whole assembly, but you could re drill the bellhousing. It wasn't perfectly flat between the frame rails but it was better. Here is what my skid looked like
you prolly won't need a anti-sway bar as long as you've got leafs in the front.....
i'd def box in that upper link mount on the axle, even if you think it's strong enough you know what happens if it rips off....no reason not to make it as strong as possible....don't forget the housing is only 3/16" thick
build some ramps for the lower link mounts, one awesome feature of a rear 4-link is being able to slide up rocks and ledges on the lower links but you won't be able to the way it is now
i'd def box in that upper link mount on the axle, even if you think it's strong enough you know what happens if it rips off....no reason not to make it as strong as possible....don't forget the housing is only 3/16" thick
build some ramps for the lower link mounts, one awesome feature of a rear 4-link is being able to slide up rocks and ledges on the lower links but you won't be able to the way it is now
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- #32
I did it via spacers under motor mounts, rotated the whole assembly, but you could re drill the bellhousing. It wasn't perfectly flat between the frame rails but it was better. Here is what my skid looked like
Interesting, how much did you rotate it? I was just thinking how it would effect the oil pump and such. I would wonder how far you could push it before it was a problem.
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- #33
Definitely, I will build some ramps on that skid plate asap. After that it will have nice ramps for sliding over rocks and such and no damage to my t.case. It does suck they hang so low but I believe it will work well after it's finished. I do want a front 4-link as I've said. So I guess it can wait on the swaybars for now. After the front 4-link I will redesign the skid plate, I may even rotate the drivetrain some as bustanutly did. When he refered to it as "clocked up" I had the wrong idea of what he meant, until I thought about it more.
I'll look into strengthening the upper link mount on the axle also. It could use more where it's welded to the axle tube, better safe than sorry. I have to add a plate on the other end of the upper link at the frame mount as well. It needs to be double sheared as it is just mounted on the sleeved bolt alone. I just hadn't decided how I would do it yet. I cut out that crossmember and then made it removable with a couple bolts on each side. It was a pain in the ass and it can make working on your t.case easier when it's not right in the way. I did want to update that with a stronger unit and possibly work the double shear plate in there. Not sure yet, but it all needs a little fine tuning. I really built it well enough to test it, but not so well it is overly hard to cut s*** apart if necessary.
I'm not really worried about is oiling issues from rotating the motor a few degrees, when I drive on my side about every trip. It wasn't much. I also lifted the rear mount some.
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- #35
I'd be interested in seeing what it would really take to re-drill the bell housing in order to rotate it higher. Or in other words how far the t.case could actually be rotated by doing it in such a manner. I haven't heard of anyone doing it, but I think it would be cool.
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- #36
All right....... As they say" hind sight is 20/20". If I could go back in time I'd have made my lower link brackets on the frame with several holes for adjustments. I've been calculating what changes would be made if I raised the lowers higher. It will have some effect, but it would likely be worth the benefit. I'm kind of thinking I'd like to have at least 1 more set of holes in the brackets. If it works well in the new position I'd just cut off the excess hanging below w/ an angle grinder. I built them out of really thick stuff so there is plenty of strength to support the extra holes, if it didn't work well in the new position. They are welded on the frame very seriously, I'm not gonna cut them off. Here lies my query!
I'm wanting some suggestions here on my best path to drill these holes w/ this bracket attached to the frame? I'm looking to drill them as accurate as possible> I have a big Milwaukee hand drill w/ 1/2" chuck. It could do the job, accuracy would be the problem. It's really hard to drill a hole 3/4" big on a frame holding the drill horizontally like this. Especially when you consider it's 5/8" thick plates. I could do it, but would have no guarantee on the accuracy of the new holes.
I have seen a drill press unit that can attach to the frame w/ a clamp or big strong magnet. That is I've seen it online in photos, I have no idea what it'd be called or where to get one(rent perhaps)? What do you guys think will be my best plan of attack? I think it's worth trying before I just decide to live with it, and spend more time building on my skid plate to only acheive lack luster results.
Ultimately what caused me to arrive at this decision was some stuff I did w/photoshop. I'm attaching what my cruiser could look like w/ a 4-link up front to match. Also a couple of what it would look like w/ the modified skid plate to help fix this problem.
thanks guys!!!!!!
I'm wanting some suggestions here on my best path to drill these holes w/ this bracket attached to the frame? I'm looking to drill them as accurate as possible> I have a big Milwaukee hand drill w/ 1/2" chuck. It could do the job, accuracy would be the problem. It's really hard to drill a hole 3/4" big on a frame holding the drill horizontally like this. Especially when you consider it's 5/8" thick plates. I could do it, but would have no guarantee on the accuracy of the new holes.
I have seen a drill press unit that can attach to the frame w/ a clamp or big strong magnet. That is I've seen it online in photos, I have no idea what it'd be called or where to get one(rent perhaps)? What do you guys think will be my best plan of attack? I think it's worth trying before I just decide to live with it, and spend more time building on my skid plate to only acheive lack luster results.
Ultimately what caused me to arrive at this decision was some stuff I did w/photoshop. I'm attaching what my cruiser could look like w/ a 4-link up front to match. Also a couple of what it would look like w/ the modified skid plate to help fix this problem.
thanks guys!!!!!!
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Call around to tool rentals and ask for a magnetic drill press. Or get a small drill press and clamp it to the frame.
just drill crooked uneven holes. You will be fine. From the looks of things a couple crooked holes are the least of your worries.
If the hole is crooked, the heim will allow it to center itself anyways.
If the holes are uneven (driver side to passenger side) then just adjust the lower links with the threads on the heim.
You overthinkin this.
If the hole is crooked, the heim will allow it to center itself anyways.
If the holes are uneven (driver side to passenger side) then just adjust the lower links with the threads on the heim.
You overthinkin this.
You overthinkin this.
I agree, its not a space craft.
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- #40
I agree, I have a tendency to be a perfectionist, good for me sometimes but not so much others. My main concern here was that by raising my lower mounting hole by 1.5" as I've planned. It will cause the heim to rotate more under articulation, and I wanted to avoid binding. Yesterday one of the guys at the machine shop suggested to me that I build a jig, like a dowling jig for wood work. I'll make it from a harder stainless steel alloy than the mild steel I'm drilling, have scrap at the shop. I will drill two 3/4"holes 1.5" apart in a block, one sleeved, one that will bolt in the mounting hole I'm relocating. That way I can keep them "even" on all sides, it can't hurt. I can add another sleeved upper link mount that much higher in the frame later if it doesn't work well.
I looked into some of the electromagnetic drill press units out there. The cheapest is over $1300, wow. I figured that some would cost that much and more, but none are cheaper. I can call around and look for a rental but I'm beginning to think it's not worth it. I am really just wanting to experiment and try to improve what I have at this point. I can build a new lower mount precise and replace it later if I need it.
As best I can figure on paper and in my head. By relocating the mount from roughly 6" to 4.5" of separation from the uppers, my pinion will rotate more throughout the travel. This may be a benefit to me as long as it's not too much. Not sure exactly what it will do to the squat characteristics, other than increased squat. May not be horrible, I'll really have to try it and see what I think by driving it. I need to take at least 1.5" out of that bracket to make it worth my time. As it is the center of the bolt is 3.375" below the frame, I'll make it 1 7/8" to bolt center. I could possibly make it a little bit lower later, I'll start out with this as I can correct it if needed.
I looked into some of the electromagnetic drill press units out there. The cheapest is over $1300, wow. I figured that some would cost that much and more, but none are cheaper. I can call around and look for a rental but I'm beginning to think it's not worth it. I am really just wanting to experiment and try to improve what I have at this point. I can build a new lower mount precise and replace it later if I need it.
As best I can figure on paper and in my head. By relocating the mount from roughly 6" to 4.5" of separation from the uppers, my pinion will rotate more throughout the travel. This may be a benefit to me as long as it's not too much. Not sure exactly what it will do to the squat characteristics, other than increased squat. May not be horrible, I'll really have to try it and see what I think by driving it. I need to take at least 1.5" out of that bracket to make it worth my time. As it is the center of the bolt is 3.375" below the frame, I'll make it 1 7/8" to bolt center. I could possibly make it a little bit lower later, I'll start out with this as I can correct it if needed.
