This is a survey: 100 vs 80, stock vs mods

[woytovich]

Put these in order of "best" to "least best" for an expedition build where the ratio of pavement to off-pavement will be 50/50. Trails off-road will range from simple dirt track to trails needing lockers and a winch once in a while... but nothing like hard core rock crawling with significant body damage potential.

All with small lift, locked as is available and a winch

80 series
80 series a 2UZ swap
80 series with a GM v8 swap
100 series
100 series with a solid axle swap
>insert your one "best" if you have some other choice<

Add any explanation you feel necessary.

Thanks,
mark

 

[woytovich]

Is my question too "newbie"?

 

[vj95]

I thought you might like a reply. I've thought about this very thing. After reading over Slee Offroad's description of converting a Hundy to single axle and converting an 80 to UZJ it looks to me that the 80 to UZJ would be the easiest way to go. Go to Slee's website and click on Project Trucks to get an idea of whats involved.

 

[woytovich]

Thanks for the reply

I think a 100 series SAS would be great. The 2UZ into an 80 would be sweet also. Obviously cost is a factor.

I think my first choice, if one could find a clean example, would be a FZJ80 (locked, with a 1FZ engine). Cheapest option with "stock" reliability.

My next would be a 100 series with a SAS and lockers. More modern, stock drivetrain, SAS off-road capability.

The straight 80 option would be the least $$$ I think and would offer a very adequate package out of the box with good upgrade options.

Money not being a consideration a 100 series with a SAS would be da bomb. Keeping the engine/transmission/transfer stock would offer the best service and maintenance options I think.

Any engine swap introduces diagnostic and repair challenges, especially for anyone other than the builder of the set-up.

 

[cwwfj60]

for me it would be:

1. 100 SAS
2. 80 2UZ
3. 80 1FZ
4. 100 IFS
5-9. Any other Toyota
10. any other gm crap stuffed into a toyota

 

[woytovich]

Do we/you know the cost of a Slee SAS on a 100 all in? (I'm afraid to ask honestly)

 

[Cruiserdrew]

You need to decide what you want to do, that you can't do now.

No need to rehash the 80 vs 100 debate. Both are proven excellent vehicles.

How far do you plan to go? If you're staying back East, run your FJ60. If your not staying back East, you do have a Suburban and a trailer according to your sig line. Always better to trailer a rig out a big distance so if something goes wrong, you're golden. Then again, run your FJ60.

To answer your question:

I would say, *having done neither*, it's easier to put a V-8 in an 80, than to SAS a 100, and then your still stuck with the 100 rear axle and it's poor seals. I'll also say that the FZJ is no speed burner, but it's adequate.

But in your situation, no better do it all vehicle than an 80, and I would recommend that, but then I'm not as picky as most about comfort and power options where the 100 is the clear winner.

A locked 80 with a 4 inch lift and 35s would also be a highly cost effective choice that could go anywhere in the Americas for under $10k.

Slee said a while back that the SAS on a 100 cost the price of the 100 plus $20k give or take.

 

[Dirty Koala]

Mark - About a year or so ago I was talking with Ben at Slee and the going rate for a 100 SAS is 30-35K...that's after you provide the 100.

The option that I think you are missing is a diesel 80. I use my truck mostly as you are describing, and having an industrial oil burner is in my view the best setup.

 

[SHREDwagon]

>insert your one "best" if you have some other choice<

Add any explanation you feel necessary.

Straight 6 Diesel. I own both a 100 (TRD SC) and an 81 (1HD-T) and having that choice - would not consider the V8 for overlanding. Solid axle or otherwise. After you add all the glamping goodies, the diesel will get DOUBLE the range of the V8 and perform better in almost every aspect of 50/50 driving. Half the engine heat with similar power, double the engine braking in 4 Lo and double the fuel economy. Did I mention torque?

A common myth on MUD seems to be 30% fuel economy advantage. This is false. One must compare LOADED vehicle weights when talking overlanding economy. A loaded up 2UZ get's exactly half of a HD-T, based on my receipts. The FTE is even better. It's not just fuel cost, but range and fuel weight.

The IFS has the edge on pavement and paired with the FTE, IMO is the pinnacle. Still have to live with a SF rear though....

Hope that in some way helps your decision.

 

[SHREDwagon]

A locked 80 with a 4 inch lift and 35s would also be a highly cost effective choice that could go anywhere in the Americas for under $10k.

A more economical choice over the long haul, but a bit misleading to others. $10k in PM - maybe? (doing most of the work yourself) Then gears to drive the new 35's.... If one wants cheap though, buy a Subaru or a bicycle!

 

[cwwfj60]

Mark - About a year or so ago I was talking with Ben at Slee and the going rate for a 100 SAS is 30-35K...that's after you provide the 100.

The option that I think you are missing is a diesel 80. I use my truck mostly as you are describing, and having an industrial oil burner is in my view the best setup.

That seems kinda high to me, I've never built a 100 SAS but I just don't see 30k going into just the front end....10k-15k in parts maybe? and another 20k in labor?!!!! maybe I'm missing something about that build that costs a significant amount, that being said I'll give slee the benefit of the doubt and say he knows exactly what it costs.

A more economical choice over the long haul, but a bit misleading to others. $10k in PM - maybe? (doing most of the work yourself) Then gears to drive the new 35's.... If one wants cheap though, buy a Subaru or a bicycle!

Diesel is a great option for overlanding, completely agree, but being the devil's advocate....what about availability of parts? water pump blows out in the middle of nowhere (because that's whole point) your not only in a crappy situation in any vehicle but your water pump is likely 2 weeks out from Japan or elsewhere. Sure you can rebuild the whole thing and do your best to make it bulletproof but s*** happens.

 

[SHREDwagon]

water pump blows out in the middle of nowhere (because that's whole point) your not only in a crappy situation in any vehicle but your water pump is likely 2 weeks out from Japan or elsewhere.

Yep - I met a British couple that had to wait 2 MONTHS for a new gearbox for their Land Rover 300 TDI to be shipped over from the UK. Toyota? Well, not so long. Another major hurdle is country import fees on auto parts. Costa Rica, for example is up to 150%! Sometimes it's cheaper to just fly home and throw it in your suitcase. Some countries, diesels are everywhere (Nicaragua). Others, are harder to get parts for than anywhere else in the world (Mexico). In general, it's a gamble depending on which specific country you're - gas or diesel. Nature of the beast.

That's why you swap you're f#$&!g water pump before you leave! Give the old one to a friend along with other used parts, pre-packaged to be shipped to you as USED parts in the event of a failure. Which I never personally needed. Which really cemented why I will never own anything else - 25 years old an all!

OP- Sorry to derail. Point being I prefer advantages of the V8 for everyday, highway driving. Only.

Edit: and if you're not doing the mods yourself - IMHO best to stay stock.

 

[cwwfj60]

silly land rovers

 

[Reiti]

Expedition build?

The main question should be where to do you want to travel to? Both Americas, north and south and middle east, are gasoline Countries.
In the US. i would buy an FJ / FZJ 80, leaving south a Ford or Chevy, even I am a Toyota man.

Rest of the world: Diesel is availible and common in 4x4s, with a little bit of luck you will find a mechanic, who has a clue about that kind of oil burning engines. Fuel ecomeny, no risk to transport the fuel, torque. No problem to run it under water.


Avoid extreme conversions. The workshop in whereever will have enough problems to get you the original part. If you tell them your vehicle is a 100, converted to SAS and equipped with a cummins, could cause a problem.


HDJ80, winch and lockers, 32" to 33" (find out which sizes are common in your tire eating area (255/85-16 is a perfekt size for the vehicle, but there is in most countries no way to get them)), 2,5" lift, is the state of the art. RHD or LHD does not matter, it will work on most parts of our wonderful word.


Sorry for my English, i was not born with it.

 

[woytovich]

Your English is way better than my (nonexistant) German.

Thanks for the input.

Mark

 

[Hedgepig]

SO I agree that a diesel 100 will give you all that you need in terms of torque, range, power, reliability, etc. In NA petrol (gas) is king but in the rest of the world diesel is the way to go.......(mostly)......parts for the 4.2 diesel will be easier to get almost everywhere else than in NA. For overlanding I am using an IFS set up.....if I wanted solid then I'd get a 105....but with it comfort and sophistication will go. Realistically what does $10k of SAS give you on the road.....keep your $10k in the bank and use it if you need to on your travels. A 100 1HD-FTE is a top platform for world travel.....weaknesses?....get rid of the AHC and on early models the 2 pinion front diff. Travelling the world is mainly asphalt and wash board....the comfort and ability of a IFS 100 is more than enough. The 80 is a fine platform but you may wish you had the extra space, power and comfort of a 100 of a long overland journey

 

[mr jits]

Or, knowing how horrible a suggestion this is considering we're all LandCruiser addicts here, consider something domestic. A friend of mine is now making his way north after having reached the southern tip of Chile in his 1997 F250 with a camper attached. His initial plans were to use an FZJ outfitted for his adventure, but he's found that parts for the Ford are available everywhere in the America's (and he's not needed any repairs, just maintenance). I know this is a far reach from your original question, but some of the early diesel trucks of US manufacture are pretty damn reliable (just ugly).
If I were looking at world travel, I'd be going for a 93-94 FZJ with a Toyota diesel for the range and reliability when loaded (plus factory lockers and "better" axles than the 100 series).

 

[woytovich]

In the US domestic makes a lot of sense... gas or diesel.

 

[cwwfj60]

ya I've seen several long range overlanders who use domestic diesels both ford and dodge 3/4 ton trucks with campers. You can get a SWEET camper setup on one of those trucks and have a lot of comfortable living space, comparable to pop top camping land cruisers. But with that big, heavy, diesel I would assume the driving experience, especially offroad would be less than enjoyable at least compared to the cruisers. VWs have a huge following for this kind of thing, they'll go anywhere, they'll break and then they'll fix it with parts from the next village because they are everywhere.....it's all about what shoe fits you best. For me it will always be a land cruiser, wagon, with reasonable but necessary upgrades and relatively stock engine.

 

[renago]

for what you intend to use the vehicle , I personally will go without a second thought with the 80 .
it is a great and comfortable car , not as luxury as the 100 , but more reliable, and many more spare parts around .
KISS , keep it simple and stupid.
avoid at any cost the crazy transformation trying to convert a project into another .
there are many hidden problems that you don't see.
even better if you find a diesel 80 , both HD-T or HD-FT .
the HD-FT has more power , but less torque.

bye Renago