Thinking about swapping my Raptor for an LC200 (1 Viewer)

[bigslacker]

For me, two things suck about the new Tundra TRD Pro:

1. No full-time 4wd. Chevy and Ford have AUTO 4wd that you can use on dry land. Toyota still has part-time 4wd i think.

2. Despite being hybrid, no generator option….like you see in F150 hybrid.

Yeah, I like a lot about the new Tundra. Tons of torque, 87 octane, probably great MPG, *WAY* more towing and payload than the Raptor, built in lightbar, e-locker.

But #1 on your list is big for me. I live in the mountains and very often deal with snow to pavement, or snow that isn't sticking but makes the road slick, etc. The Raptor is in 4A most of the winter. It's not a deal breaker, I had a wrangler, FJC and 4Runner so I'm got plenty of RWD with selectable 4wd experience. But still, it's a very nice luxury to have in the snow or even rain.

The generator isn't such a big deal for me. I backcountry camp but usually the only power I'm using is phone or laptop charging and I have a battery pack for that, don't even need to fire up the truck. My friends sometimes bring trailers but they have solar and a gas generator if it's really hot and they need to run the AC. Granted the truck has a *WAY* bigger gas tank than a small genny and is quieter so it's a nice luxury.

The real Qs here are reliability and cost. Because you can do all of this with an F150 Tremor including 4A and 2kw generator for $66.5 MSRP (just priced it on Ford's site). If a TRD Pro is closer to $60k it's a bargain and will PROBABLY be more reliable than the 3.5 ecoboost. But if it's closer to $70k Toyota is banking a lot on people choosing them based on reliability rep since they lack some features.

Also 33's vs 35's is shameful on this truck. Hopefully you can fit 35's with a minimum of fuss.

 

[Madtiger]

Yeah, I like a lot about the new Tundra. Tons of torque, 87 octane, probably great MPG, *WAY* more towing and payload than the Raptor, built in lightbar, e-locker.

But #1 on your list is big for me. I live in the mountains and very often deal with snow to pavement, or snow that isn't sticking but makes the road slick, etc. The Raptor is in 4A most of the winter. It's not a deal breaker, I had a wrangler, FJC and 4Runner so I'm got plenty of RWD with selectable 4wd experience. But still, it's a very nice luxury to have in the snow or even rain.

The generator isn't such a big deal for me. I backcountry camp but usually the only power I'm using is phone or laptop charging and I have a battery pack for that, don't even need to fire up the truck. My friends sometimes bring trailers but they have solar and a gas generator if it's really hot and they need to run the AC. Granted the truck has a *WAY* bigger gas tank than a small genny and is quieter so it's a nice luxury.

The real Qs here are reliability and cost. Because you can do all of this with an F150 Tremor including 4A and 2kw generator for $66.5 MSRP (just priced it on Ford's site). If a TRD Pro is closer to $60k it's a bargain and will PROBABLY be more reliable than the 3.5 ecoboost. But if it's closer to $70k Toyota is banking a lot on people choosing them based on reliability rep since they lack some features.

Also 33's vs 35's is shameful on this truck. Hopefully you can fit 35's with a minimum of fuss.

For me, after the freeze in Feb, i am starting to see Ford’s built-in generator as a HUGE plus for me. The F150 Hybrid can power my house for a few days (if my house were hooked up for generator)! Think about that! Whole house generator capability. Not sure where you live, but to install a Generac generator for whole house costs at least $15,000 or more (depending on size of house and how many things you need powered). Just hook your F150 Hybrid to house and you can enjoy life of luxury while everyone else is in the dark ages!

I am sure that Toyota will bring the generator option to Tundra…probably as a midlife update.

 

[bigslacker]

For me, after the freeze in Feb, i am starting to see Ford’s built-in generator as a HUGE plus for me. The F150 Hybrid can power my house for a few days (if my house were hooked up for generator)! Think about that! Whole house generator capability. Not sure where you live, but to install a Generac generator for whole house costs at least $15,000 or more (depending on size of house and how many things you need powered). Just hook your F150 Hybrid to house and you can enjoy life of luxury while everyone else is in the dark ages!

I am sure that Toyota will bring the generator option to Tundra…probably as a midlife update.

I live in Tahoe, we don't lose power often because our infra is built for mountain winters. But it *CAN* go out of course in high winds, trees, etc. I have a generator for the house already but it's only good for 8 hours or so and I have to refill. It's not quiet either. A big tank in the truck and just drive to the gas station to refill instead of jerry cans would be cool.

 

[Tex68w]

TFL wasn't very successful with getting the F-150 Hybrid to power much more than a 2200 genny could. You'll likely need to wire the house for a 30A or 50A direct hookup, also consider the possibility of back feeding the main line should you go direct to the meter, that can be dangerous for power line crews out working that aren't aware of your connection. I wouldn't rely on the truck to be your savior in times when you truly need power (freeze/hurricane/earthquake/rolling blackouts), keep portable generators or have one installed for your home. Where we live they are almost an annual necessity.

 

[04UZJ100]

I can see it in the news now….”Dad thought he could power his house during Hurricane Doug with his new F 1-Fitty, instead he burns his whole house down doing so”

 

[Madtiger]

TFL wasn't very successful with getting the F-150 Hybrid to power much more than a 2200 genny could. You'll likely need to wire the house for a 30A or 50A direct hookup, also consider the possibility of back feeding the main line should you go direct to the meter, that can be dangerous for power line crews out working that aren't aware of your connection. I wouldn't rely on the truck to be your savior in times when you truly need power (freeze/hurricane/earthquake/rolling blackouts), keep portable generators or have one installed for your home. Where we live they are almost an annual necessity.

Yes, you would need 30A / 50A hookup. There were more than a few Texans running their house off the F150 Hybrid during the storm.

 

[Tex68w]

Yes, you would need 30A / 50A hookup. There were more than a few Texans running their house off the F150 Hybrid during the storm.

Until I see proof of it on video with duration, overload amperage and then how it impacts the trucks power and range after usage I won't consider it a viable option.

 

[Madtiger]

Until I see proof of it on video with duration, overload amperage and then how it impacts the trucks power and range after usage I won't consider it a viable option.

But at the very least, if you have an RV or mobile home, then the F150 Hybrid is a no-brainer: (about 5 days of full power to a RV)

 

[AnyMal]

So I just got back from a trip to Montana and missed the Tundra reveal.

Can we all mature a little bit now and admit that the 300 was proven to be lackluster and low effort at best just like I said and desperately needed hybridization to compete in any somewhat discerning market?

Toyota is undoubtedly creating the tundra drivetrain to be as reliable as any in the LC (it is the same identical one after all), so now we have a perfect solution for the Tundra that somehow never made it to the 300. A bell housing motor. Its a miracle!
Who could have predicated Toyota could make a reliable hybrid?

The American consumer lives to fight another day for the advancement of market offerings.
Hooray.

 

[Tex68w]

But at the very least, if you have an RV or mobile home, then the F150 Hybrid is a no-brainer: (about 5 days of full power to a RV)

Now that is a nifty and valid use.

 

[diablogt]

Im surprised the new Tundra is more powerful (at top trim) than the supposedly flagship LC300. Toyota must have realized the need to be competitive in the US pickup truck market and decided to go all in. At this point, I can clearly see the Lexus LX600 to be hybrid and the GX to have the V6 turbo. No complaints here since I live in the US where the LC300 is non existent.

On a side note, i know the importing price on a base LC300 is only 2/3 of a 2021 LC200 in my home country. Super weird but I guess the LC300 is designed to sit lower than the LX while the LC200 is pretty much same level. This explains the engine choice on the 300

 

[AnyMal]

Im surprised the new Tundra is more powerful (at top trim) than the supposedly flagship LC300. Toyota must have realized the need to be competitive in the US pickup truck market and decided to go all in. At this point, I can clearly see the Lexus LX600 to be hybrid and the GX to have the V6 turbo. No complaints here since I live in the US where the LC300 is non existent.

On a side note, i know the importing price on a base LC300 is only 2/3 of a 2021 LC200 in my home country. Super weird but I guess the LC300 is designed to sit lower than the LX while the LC200 is pretty much same level. This explains the engine choice on the 300

You hitting some good notes there and im happy to listen to the truth dawning on people.

The LC is turning into a $90K offroad econobox that somehow still only gets you 250 miles on a tank. Its a cash cow, for places that don't have a whole lot of non luxury competition and actually use the vehicle harshly without care. This has been a hot topic here for a while and ive made my view pretty clear over several threads.

 

[m4hk33]

You hitting some good notes there and im happy to listen to the truth dawning on people.

The LC is turning into a $90K offroad econobox that somehow still only gets you 250 miles on a tank. Its a cash cow, for places that don't have a whole lot of non luxury competition and actually use the vehicle harshly without care. This has been a hot topic here for a while and ive made my view pretty clear over several threads.

An observation, i think the view of the LC being a 90k offroad econobox is more of a US view that a Toyota view, For example, I work in Kuwait and the land cruiser is just a regular 45k SUV with cloth seats and a standard radio, the only difference is that Toyota offers the middle east all of the trim levels from Base with cloth seats to a Lexus Sport edition. For some reason, toyota in their infinite wisdom decided that the biggest consumer economy on the planet are good with basically 2 trim levels. I am sure that this is based on some algorithm that some corporate accountants use to determine how much expanding the LC lineup would impact the Sale of NA produced vehicles

 

[m4hk33]

Im surprised the new Tundra is more powerful (at top trim) than the supposedly flagship LC300. Toyota must have realized the need to be competitive in the US pickup truck market and decided to go all in. At this point, I can clearly see the Lexus LX600 to be hybrid and the GX to have the V6 turbo. No complaints here since I live in the US where the LC300 is non existent.

On a side note, i know the importing price on a base LC300 is only 2/3 of a 2021 LC200 in my home country. Super weird but I guess the LC300 is designed to sit lower than the LX while the LC200 is pretty much same level. This explains the engine choice on the 300

A question, is the Land Cruiser actually the toyota flagship? In Toyotas view, not ours? If it was the flag ship, would it not be a little to not sell it in the us?

 

[bloc]

An observation, i think the view of the LC being a 90k offroad econobox is more of a US view that a Toyota view, For example, I work in Kuwait and the land cruiser is just a regular 45k SUV with cloth seats and a standard radio, the only difference is that Toyota offers the middle east all of the trim levels from Base with cloth seats to a Lexus Sport edition. For some reason, toyota in their infinite wisdom decided that the biggest consumer economy on the planet are good with basically 2 trim levels. I am sure that this is based on some algorithm that some corporate accountants use to determine how much expanding the LC lineup would impact the Sale of NA produced vehicles

How many different SUV models does toyota sell in the middle east?

Here in the US, with the now-departed landcruiser and technically the Venza (toyota calls it an SUV, but whatever) there were six different SUVs to choose from. Then you could tack Lexus on top there too..

A base model cruiser would cut into 4runner/sequoia sales. So yes they have an algorithm and it isn't too hard to understand.

 

[diablogt]

A question, is the Land Cruiser actually the toyota flagship? In Toyotas view, not ours? If it was the flag ship, would it not be a little to not sell it in the us?

Its the runaway flagship for Toyota. The LC200 5.7 is 40% more expensive than the Sequoia and double the price of the Tundra 5.7. You ask anyone anywhere in the world and they will tell you that the top dog for Toyota is a LC. Thats why I dont understand the lack of hybrid option on the LC300.

My best guess is that they position the LC300 as the flagship outside of the US. But in the US, they will push the new Sequoia to that position to compete with Tahoe Expedition etc. The 4Runner will occupy the overland SUV space while the new LX will be G class and Range Rover fighter.

 

[m4hk33]

How many different SUV models does toyota sell in the middle east?

Here in the US, with the now-departed landcruiser and technically the Venza (toyota calls it an SUV, but whatever) there were six different SUVs to choose from. Then you could tack Lexus on top there too..

A base model cruiser would cut into 4runner/sequoia sales. So yes they have an algorithm and it isn't too hard to understand.

In Kuwait there are 4,

LC
Prado(4 Runner)
Foretuner(Highlander)
FJ Cruiser

I really dont think that the LC would cut into 4 runner sales any more than it cuts into prado sales here in Kuwait,

 

[bloc]

Its the runaway flagship for Toyota. The LC200 5.7 is 40% more expensive than the Sequoia and double the price of the Tundra 5.7. You ask anyone anywhere in the world and they will tell you that the top dog for Toyota is a LC. Thats why I dont understand the lack of hybrid option on the LC300.

My best guess is that they position the LC300 as the flagship outside of the US. But in the US, they will push the new Sequoia to that position to compete with Tahoe Expedition etc. The 4Runner will occupy the overland SUV space while the new LX will be G class and Range Rover fighter.

Pure speculation here, but it is possible they couldn't get a hybrid system to meet their reliability/durability standards yet. Or some other issue with implementation. Or maybe.. didn't feel it was necessary even in a flagship in the markets they are concerned with.

In Kuwait there are 4,

LC
Prado(4 Runner)
Foretuner(Highlander)
FJ Cruiser

I really dont think that the LC would cut into 4 runner sales any more than it cuts into prado sales here in Kuwait,

And yet they sell tons of cruisers there without even trying.. whereas a base model cruiser here would likely sell a few units, but there is no way it would turn into the powerhouse that it is in other markets. American consumers just want different things, and most don't care about the inherent quality baked into these vehicles.. or at least not enough to pay for it.

When they can get a "cheap" cruiser in the 4runner.

Make a base cruiser, and pricing will start getting close to those 4runner numbers, and cut into the optioned-out sales (which are higher margin, by the way)

A long time ago someone a lot smarter than me made the point that if auto enthusiasts ran these companies they'd fail almost immediately. What we want and what turns a profit on a global scale are two different things. Toyota is very good at turning selling cars and turning profits, as much as we may disagree with their strategies.

 

[m4hk33]

Its the runaway flagship for Toyota. The LC200 5.7 is 40% more expensive than the Sequoia and double the price of the Tundra 5.7. You ask anyone anywhere in the world and they will tell you that the top dog for Toyota is a LC. Thats why I dont understand the lack of hybrid option on the LC300.

My best guess is that they position the LC300 as the flagship outside of the US. But in the US, they will push the new Sequoia to that position to compete with Tahoe Expedition etc. The 4Runner will occupy the overland SUV space while the new LX will be G class and Range Rover fighter.

Its 40 percent more expensive in the US, In the Kuwait, there really is no difference in price between a base 5.7 LC and Base US Sequioa both are mid 50k vehicles.

Overall its an odd strategy, the one vehicle in the segment that does very well is the 4 runner, everything else is pretty much marginal in regards to sales. Even if LC cannibalized Sequioa sales, its not going to make a differences, they are still going to come in at the bottom of the pack for larger suv sales.

 

[Rawrear]

I can understand why LC sales suck. It’s 40% more then a sequoia and what do you get for 40% more. Better off road ability, ice box in the arm rest. When your making a go no go chart the things the LC wins at are pretty small. But the sequoia wins large categories that make more of an impact like more room, lower price, more towing.