I would prefer a 5.3 over a 4.8...that's just my view. You probably can buy a 4.8 cheaper, but that may be relative to the location and what's available. I would look to buy a 5.3 with matching transmission (attached) as a single unit pulled from a salvage yard vehicle or parts truck. There are many years of pickups and suvs running the 5.3 with auto transmission, probably the better price point getting both at the same time.
Theorycraft - V8 swap on an EXTREME Budget
- Thread starter gregnash
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So buying a complete running vehicle and using the engine and transmission package together is a viable path to a less expensive swap It seems. (makes sense)
Given that what would be the best choice to further thre "budget build" concept? All swaps require some stuff: mounts, exhaust, usually driveshafts... How about adapter to transfer case (or a setup that one could use the source transfer case). Wiring: what sources are easiest/cheapest to make work in a cruiser swap. Gauges: adapt to the stock gauges, go to aftermarket... Or even swap in the donor vehicle gauges.
All of this in pursuit of the least expensive path to get a powerful powerplant into a cruiser.
Given that what would be the best choice to further thre "budget build" concept? All swaps require some stuff: mounts, exhaust, usually driveshafts... How about adapter to transfer case (or a setup that one could use the source transfer case). Wiring: what sources are easiest/cheapest to make work in a cruiser swap. Gauges: adapt to the stock gauges, go to aftermarket... Or even swap in the donor vehicle gauges.
All of this in pursuit of the least expensive path to get a powerful powerplant into a cruiser.
I think that if you are going to consider all it takes to do a swap in the least expensive path you would be remiss if you do not consider operation costs for at least 5 years forward. I'll use one item @woytovich mentioned, using donor gauges.
Consider the time invested to make them fit and how they appear in the stock gauge location. Also consider who is going to repair them in the future and availability etc. Future serviceability costs is a factor a lot of people overlook. Money spent up front on items to make service and repair easier will pay dividends down the line. The money spent on say an AN fitting rather than a hose clamp now can make a hose change down the line easier and more than likely less time. If you are paying a shop, less time means a smaller labor charge, or less of your time if turning your own wrenches.
There is a big difference between cheap and inexpensive.........................
Consider the time invested to make them fit and how they appear in the stock gauge location. Also consider who is going to repair them in the future and availability etc. Future serviceability costs is a factor a lot of people overlook. Money spent up front on items to make service and repair easier will pay dividends down the line. The money spent on say an AN fitting rather than a hose clamp now can make a hose change down the line easier and more than likely less time. If you are paying a shop, less time means a smaller labor charge, or less of your time if turning your own wrenches.
There is a big difference between cheap and inexpensive.........................
I'm late to this party, but I will chime in with my experience. My fj62 had a TBI+7004r+stock t-case.
The TBI was a slouch in every aspect of the word. Power was greater than a 3fe, but not by much. It still struggled on hills and needed to kick down to 2nd to keep up with traffic. They can be built up to make good power, but if you're starting from scratch, it would be more cost effective to start with a 5.3 and get 300hp out of the box rather than start with the TBI 5.7 and add another two thousand bucks worth of aftermarket to get to 300hp. One thing the TBI did have going for it is simplicity--by far the easiest engine I've ever worked on--it's like putting together legos.
700r4 also seemed very unrefined to me. Little stuff like it doesn't drop into neutral when coming to a stop until you're about to stall the engine, reluctant to shift and shifts require major throttle inputs. Maybe these issues have been sorted out with the newer 4l60s or 4l80s.
Basically the reason I bought that truck was the swap, and it turns out the swap is also the reason I got rid of it. If you're going to do it, do it right. In my mind, that means modern vortec and modern transmission. Using the older chevy stuff feels more like a step back.
The TBI was a slouch in every aspect of the word. Power was greater than a 3fe, but not by much. It still struggled on hills and needed to kick down to 2nd to keep up with traffic. They can be built up to make good power, but if you're starting from scratch, it would be more cost effective to start with a 5.3 and get 300hp out of the box rather than start with the TBI 5.7 and add another two thousand bucks worth of aftermarket to get to 300hp. One thing the TBI did have going for it is simplicity--by far the easiest engine I've ever worked on--it's like putting together legos.
700r4 also seemed very unrefined to me. Little stuff like it doesn't drop into neutral when coming to a stop until you're about to stall the engine, reluctant to shift and shifts require major throttle inputs. Maybe these issues have been sorted out with the newer 4l60s or 4l80s.
Basically the reason I bought that truck was the swap, and it turns out the swap is also the reason I got rid of it. If you're going to do it, do it right. In my mind, that means modern vortec and modern transmission. Using the older chevy stuff feels more like a step back.
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- #66
Lots of the reading I have done has pointed out that the 700R4 is a very unrefined auto and leaves a lot to be wanted. This is the first I have heard of someone saying that the TBI 350 (not 305) was a bit of a dog. Interesting.
I will put it this way, if you're familiar with the 1fz motor in the 80 series. The power and torque number between the TBI 5.7 and the 1fz-fe are very similar (about 210hp 260-280ft lbs). On paper, my LX450 and my Fj62 should have been about the same. Same gear ratio, similar weight, similar tire size. They are not. The LX450 felt noticeably stronger and is a much more refined user experience, in terms of the way the drivetrain operated. You don't see any threads in the 80 section saying "my 80 is a highway rocket," but you do see quite a few asking "how do I maintain highway speed in the mountains?"
Yes, there were times when I wished my TBI were hooked up to a manual, but I think the wide ratios of the NV4500 would still make it less than ideal for climbing though the mountains. H55 has closer ratios and would probably yield a little more pep, but I think you'd still end up wanting for power.
Think of it this way. When guys with the TBI 5.7 want more power, what do they do? They put on vortec heads, they convert the flat-tappet cams for roller cams with a better profile. They basically try to make their motor into a vortec. Why not just go to the junkyard and pick up one that already has all the right stuff in it?
That was my line of thought, anyway.
For how easy the LS swap is, I would opt for a 5.3 and a 4L60E combo over any 5.7 TBI or Vortec swap. Pacific Fab has ready to run engines for ~$2,000. This is coming from a Ford guy, so you know it's credible.
The biggest thing you will encounter is how anal retentive the smog referee is going to be regarding your fuel tank. There is a belief from some referee's that the fuel tank must also be from the same make/model as the donor vehicle. I never had that problem in the past. The rest of the emissions stuff is fairly easy to do and get past the referee.
Catalytic converters, OBD2 evap systems, etc, are actually pretty easy to plumb and get right.
The biggest thing you will encounter is how anal retentive the smog referee is going to be regarding your fuel tank. There is a belief from some referee's that the fuel tank must also be from the same make/model as the donor vehicle. I never had that problem in the past. The rest of the emissions stuff is fairly easy to do and get past the referee.
Catalytic converters, OBD2 evap systems, etc, are actually pretty easy to plumb and get right.
known fact...TBI is a dog....but rock solid in dependability. A dog is a dog...but the TBI is not a 2f dog 
I had a gm pickup with 5.7 tbi....no powerhouse and probably one of he weakest 5.7s in the family...except for maybe one of the smogged carb setups from the mid 70's through mid 80's.
never heard anyone say anything about swapping fuel tanks on an engine swap to meet emisions, but CA does funny things. I'm sure you have to align with the emissions "rules".
7004R is not a dog....its a good transmission but not as refined as the newer stuff....it shifts off a cable...and is simple....which equates to good for some folks.
back to PM school....you're on some type of budget.....now for the trade-offs (the words 5.3 with 4l60E keep ringing in my head for some reason)....
I had a gm pickup with 5.7 tbi....no powerhouse and probably one of he weakest 5.7s in the family...except for maybe one of the smogged carb setups from the mid 70's through mid 80's.
never heard anyone say anything about swapping fuel tanks on an engine swap to meet emisions, but CA does funny things. I'm sure you have to align with the emissions "rules".
7004R is not a dog....its a good transmission but not as refined as the newer stuff....it shifts off a cable...and is simple....which equates to good for some folks.
back to PM school....you're on some type of budget.....now for the trade-offs (the words 5.3 with 4l60E keep ringing in my head for some reason)....
- Thread starter
- #71
LOL yeah now the weights of a 4.8/5.3 Vortec swap are outweighing the extra cost. The swap to Auto will not happen though unless a 4L60 drops into my lap for next to nothing. I bought my 60 specifically because I wanted a manual transmission. The MT options are pretty limited and the cost of a NV4500 is a bit cost prohibitive for m so I will stick with an adapter to the H42F for now with the plan to upgrade to an H55F in a few years. The question becomes the whether to go with the torque splitter or straight adapter.
And also the note of the 4.8 vs 5.3...... Locally the cost difference is a couple hundred dollars depending on the mileage so it is negligible. If I were to do my own junkyard pull I would aim for a 5.3 with the 4.8 as back up but the usage of this truck will be a 60/40 rig, mainly a daily driver with some mild off-road time which the 4.8 would be able to handle easily.
Again the purpose of this thread is this kind of discussion so that someone looking to do such a swap has a good amount of information to make a somewhat educated decision.
And also the note of the 4.8 vs 5.3...... Locally the cost difference is a couple hundred dollars depending on the mileage so it is negligible. If I were to do my own junkyard pull I would aim for a 5.3 with the 4.8 as back up but the usage of this truck will be a 60/40 rig, mainly a daily driver with some mild off-road time which the 4.8 would be able to handle easily.
Again the purpose of this thread is this kind of discussion so that someone looking to do such a swap has a good amount of information to make a somewhat educated decision.
How does sourcing an engine and manual transmission together mated to a Toyota transfer case compare to an engine mated to a Toyota transmission and transfer case?
What source options are there for v8/manual GMs?
What source options are there for v8/manual GMs?
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V8 + NV4500
Easy to source in a running truck? Way more expensive than an auto? Cost of adapter to Toyota TC vs an auto... or vs and engine to Toyota transmission?
Seems the v8/NV4500 route would be comparable to a v8/h55...?
Seems the v8/NV4500 route would be comparable to a v8/h55...?
Here ya go, New venture 4500 5 speed 96 Chevy 2wd drive nv4500 transmission
Just keep your eyes open and watch CL, they're out there. I picked up my NV4500 for about the same price - granted I had to drive 2 hours to go pick it up, but..
Sometimes I think the 6.0 in my 2500HD belongs in my FJ62.. It may end up there eventually, but I have no immediate plans.. Now that I think about it, a truck like that is a good buy for a swap. 2005 2500HD 2wd, RCLB, barebones with AM/FM, rubber floors and crank windows, not even a trailer hitch so easy miles.. was $3k, and if a guy were to keep the engine and trans he'd still have a rust free body/bed/frame and a FF 14 bolt with a gov loc and disc brakes to barter/sell.. If you have the space and time to part stuff out that is.
Good luck!
- Thread starter
- #76
Ultimately yes the best scenario would be to buy a full truck or atleast from the tranny forward (half cut) to get the best setup but that will be a little harder to find and be very reliant on the swapper having the space to keep two vehicles. For me that will not be something I can do unless I can really convince the wife that I need the second truck there for X amount of months and then part out.
@woytovich I agree... trying to source the two together would be much better/easier than trying to add parts together here and there like random legos. But ~$1200for the Tranny(NV4500), ~$700for the adapter, then $500+ for misc. items (driveshaft mods, new crossmember, etc.) you are looking at $2500+ for your new tranny/t-case combo that may or may not be to your liking.
Now don't get me wrong, I full believe that the V8 needs to have a 5spd or auto behind it but the options are fairly limited on variables and time. For me I wanted the FJ60 over the FJ62 because of the round eyes and the manual transmission. I do not plan to ever get rid of the M/T so my options become; take a bit longer and find the NV4500 for cheap then go from there or get the project done sooner and utilize my still good H42F 4spd for the time being and then in a year or two upgrade to the H55F 5spd.
@woytovich I agree... trying to source the two together would be much better/easier than trying to add parts together here and there like random legos. But ~$1200for the Tranny(NV4500), ~$700for the adapter, then $500+ for misc. items (driveshaft mods, new crossmember, etc.) you are looking at $2500+ for your new tranny/t-case combo that may or may not be to your liking.
Now don't get me wrong, I full believe that the V8 needs to have a 5spd or auto behind it but the options are fairly limited on variables and time. For me I wanted the FJ60 over the FJ62 because of the round eyes and the manual transmission. I do not plan to ever get rid of the M/T so my options become; take a bit longer and find the NV4500 for cheap then go from there or get the project done sooner and utilize my still good H42F 4spd for the time being and then in a year or two upgrade to the H55F 5spd.
I am currently in the same situation. My 3FE was very tired and I decided to replace with 5.7L TBI / 700R4 combo. A few of the main reasons, we were able to pick up a low miles create motor and a GM rebuilt 700R4 for a 1/4 of the cost of the 5.3L Vortec engine alone. The parts going forward would be much easier to get and less expensive than the Toyota parts, and while not have the same horse power as the Vortec, the TBI does offer improved torque over the 3FE and finally a very simple and reliable set up that I would be comfortable working on myself.
gregnash said:
back when I was researching a swap for my old 60, I seemed to find NV4500's on craigslist regularly for about $800. That's not too bad. But re-using your H42 would be fine as a stopgap measure. It just necessitates an H55 later (or another total re-working of the drivetrain), which is more expensive than an NV4500. For that reason, I would aim for an NV4500 on the first go 'round if you can pull together the extra money. I.e. it would be cheaper in the long run.
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