The Water Well Thread

[doug720]

Our Nevada neighbor had a variable speed well pump system installed recently.

It uses a tiny pressure tank, produces good volume and pressure, supposedly uses much less electricity, and appears to work well.

Does anyone here have a similar system? Opinions?

Can a regular submersible pump be converted to a variable speed with a new controller? I found several posts about doing this, but with many comments - pro and con.

We have a regular submersible pump and large pressure tank, and it works well. So this is for future consideration.

 

[Hojack]

Our Nevada neighbor had a variable speed well pump system installed recently.

It uses a tiny pressure tank, produces good volume and pressure, supposedly uses much less electricity, and appears to work well.

Does anyone here have a similar system? Opinions?

Can a regular submersible pump be converted to a variable speed with a new controller? I found several posts about doing this, but with many comments - pro and con.

We have a regular submersible pump and large pressure tank, and it works well. So this is for future consideration.

What HP well pump do you have.
We used Pentek Intellidrives. The controllers are 230v single phase input with the ability to select single phase or 3 phase motors. On a new install we always install a 3 phase motor with a VFD system. On a single phase motor you must wire your red, yellow and black motor wire in the drive properly. On a 3 phase setup it does not matter however the motor may run in the wrong rotation.
I have done a few conversions from a control box setup and large pressure tank to a VFD without replacing the single phase motor down the well. Most common reason is to keep the well pump running through the whole irrigation cycle without the common problem with the motor over cycling. A 2HP is the largest pump I’ve ever swapped to a VFD and it’s not too common in our practice but it works. Only issue could be on an older motor with a failing thrust bearing, the switch to a VFD could cause the motor to drag the pump impellers and cause the motor to overload.
The Grundfos SQE is another VFD that we use. It’s a 3” diameter pump and spins just shy of 11,000 rpms at full load. I like this system but the VFD is out dated and the pump and motor are factory assembled so the pump and motor cannot be replaced separately. They are not a good pick for wells with iron or debris as it has a small screen and small impellers.

 

[Hojack]

One thing about energy consumption is these are a soft start so in rush is not a factor in the power. When my pump runs when I’m using my generator I don’t hardly even notice when it turns on. When we test pump a well with our generator with a single phase motor you can definitely notice the amp draw on the generator when starting the motor.
I adjust my max motor amps on my well pump seasonally. In summer I’ve got it turned up to max amps for a 1-1/2HP and turn it down to 1/2HP amps in the winter. This saves power and also has less draw on my generator as well. I also have a heat pump water heater which also reduces load on my generator.

 

[Bob Morazes]

You guys should contract yourselves out to the US Navy!
The last job I did, before the insanity of the USN made my decision to retire an easy one, was working the failing fire main systems on the LCS class (aluminum ones).
Some genius decided to use VFD to power these massive sea water pumps. These pumps have been on US ships since the 50's and are generally bullet proof.
The VFD system was NOT designed properly and the short story was the bearings were being eaten alive by stray electrical charges.
Millions were spent on head scratching , finger pointing and wasted replacement of equipment.
They should have come here first.
Bobmo

 

[Hojack]

With the COVID19 pandemic I’ve been installing manual hand pumps like crazy here in Oregon. This well utilized both the electric submersible motor and a manual hand pump. Here is one I did earlier this week up near Mt. Hood.

The well and pump equipment equipment were inside this POS pumphouse.

Removal of the pumphouse.

6” well casing was too close to ground level so needed to extend casing. Cut in pitless adapter for well pump to hang onto.

Submersible and hand pump in well. Setting up the pressure tank and manifold in valve box and irrigation valves. Mounted the VFD controller and disconnect.

All done and cleaned up.

 

[scrapdaddy]

Very cool! I wish you worked in Missouri, exactly what I need.

 

[Hojack]

Last night heard an explosion in bed around 3am. Woke both me and the wife up. My neighbor down the road called bright and early to tell me his pumphouse caught on fire and blew up last night. Went there this evening to see what had happened.

Exploded steel pressure tank, blown open like a tin can.

The top of the well and burned up control box for the submersible pump.

Thankful yesterday was very wet. If this happened when it was dry there would have been a forest fire.

When to our shop and filled our portable 525 gallon water storage tank with a booster pump to pressurize water to house.

Setup the water trailer at the house so they can have water until a new pumphouse and we’ll equipment can be installed.
For you out there who have a water well system. This could have been avoided by proper service.
You pressure tank is like the lungs of the well system. When it’s new it’s pressurized with air. Water enters the diaphragm and compresses the air. Normal house pressure is 40 psi on and 60 psi off. At 60 psi the pressure tank is 2/3 compressed air and 1/3 water. Over time the diaphragm expands and contracts thousands of times. Imagine blowing a ballon up and deflating over and over again. The diaphragm develops a weak spot and water begins to enter the air portion of the tank. It slowly fills I unnoticed until the pressure begins the get erratic. By this time the pressure jumps up and down when the water is used. People in the shower notice the water spray intense and quickly die away only start spraying intense again. Leaving this unattended will cause the switch to get hot. The plastic cap melts and a fire is started. If the area around the switch has nothing to burn it’ll die out. However most pump houses are packed with yard equipment and fuel. This presents the danger.
Some tips
1. If you notice erratic pressure, turn the breaker off and call your pumpman, or hit me up
2. Never wrap your pressure tank with insulation.
3. Keep area around the pressure switch clear.
4. Do not store flammable products or equipment in the pumphouse.
5. Pressure tanks loose air over time. Check your tank pressure yearly. The air pressure should be 2-3 psi lower than the on pressure. 40-60 psi air charge should be 37-38 psi.
6. When you check air turn power off and drain all water. Check the air at the valve stem on top of tank.
7. I can tell a waterlogged tank just by tapping the tank. Sometime I’ll rock the tank and listen for water sloshing around.

Hopefully these safety and maintenance tips help save you from injury or damage.
PM me or hit me up for any well related questions.
Thanks Jason

 

[scrapdaddy]

WOW! I've had a pressure tank go bad, but never had a fire. What was the explosion from? Also, when you say to drain all the water to test the air pressure do me open the faucets in the house?

Thanks for posting, good information and a real eye opener.

 

[Hojack]

There’s a couple things that can lead to a fire. I’ve had melted plastic squareD switch covers with nothing more. It’s what’s near the switch that can cause additional hazard. A blanket/ insulation wrapping a pressure tank is the number one reason a fire ignites. Another source is stored fuel containers. I’ve opened countless pumphouse doors in the summer and am almost knocked over by the fumes. The pressure switch is the detonation device. If the switch archs then it’s set off. The explosion the other night was all the water trapped in the waterlogged pressure tank. The intense fire burning everything on the outside of the pressure tank while heating the water inside. The pressure continued to build within the tank until it couldn’t hold anymore.

 

[gonzopancho]

The explosion is typically a pressure switch not working. I’ve seen frozen 1/4” nipples or tees freeze solid even in Las Vegas during a cold morning.
If this happens while the pump is off typically nothing bad happens, other than “no water”.

If they freeze on, the pump might eventually give up the ghost.

but for a big tank, with an air compressor used to maintain the air charge... well, a pressure switch froze while the compressor was “on” one morning.

eventually blew the end clean off a 4,000 gallon tank. The rest of the tank came off the saddles. Took me three days to cut it up small enough to load it on a trailer and haul it away.

 

[GilesM]

Does anyone have experience with a permanent well water level sensor? I would like to be able to see variations in water level daily, seasonally and long term. My well is about 900' deep and the water level is around 400 feet down. Oregon.

Thanks

 

[alia176]

Does anyone have experience with a permanent well water level sensor? I would like to be able to see variations in water level daily, seasonally and long term. My well is about 900' deep and the water level is around 400 feet down. Oregon.

Thanks

My county uses a sonar device to measure the water level so that might be an option for you.