The Idiot's (and diesel Boy's) Guide to Getting a 2F running

[Vossie]

Hi All,

Ok, so i have done multiple searches, but haven't found exactly the answers i need, so i thought i would start a thread for any one else who is in my shoes.

All of my experience is on diesels. i know the basics of petrol's and carbs and stuff, but getting my 2F running is i think just a bit out of my depth. so for all intents and purposes, treat me like i dont know anything, that way i can try and learn everything (Try anyway )

Here is a vid of the first time i tried cranking my engine over, the first time in over 1 1/2 years its done so.



so, what does it sound like is wrong? where should i start looking? does any one have a step by step check list for all things needed for a 2F to run?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

timing is a bit off...sounds like it's going to run good once it gets going...make sure you don't have any huge intake leaks, twist the diz abit here or there and keep trying...maybe run thru the valves and check for cold lash...VROOM!!!

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

maybe set up a better temporary fuel tank...

 

[Vossie]

maybe set up a better temporary fuel tank...

ok, ive done that. i now have the fuel coming from a temp tank through the fuel pump.

timing is a bit off...sounds like it's going to run good once it gets going...make sure you don't have any huge intake leaks, twist the diz abit here or there and keep trying...maybe run thru the valves and check for cold lash...VROOM!!!

and heres why i need this thread... how do i do that? ok valves i know how to do. but the diz, how do i turn that without taking it out? do i loosen it?

another thing, what are all the vacuum lines and where should they go? the only one i have is the one from the air box to top of the tappet cover. and the tiny one from the diz to the carb, if that is a vacuum...?

and what is this wire? where should it go?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

well there's yer problim....the fuel idle solenoid doesn't have 12 volts- that wire should carry 12 volts to the idle stop solenoid, which opens the idle fuel circuit for you. for basic first time ease of essplaining...put vacuum caps or bb plugged vacuum tubing on all vacuum nipples to eliminate any unwanted leaks- we can go back thru those later and hook them all up to where they go once you get running...the diz has a bolt holding it down- looses the bolt and turn the diz CW or CCW to retard or advance, respectively. small movements equate to degrees of adjustment- little this way, if worse, then back to where it was and a little that way and try again...measure the voltage of the wire from the harness to ground with the key on; it should have power when on and no power when off...hook it up to the wire from the idle stop solenoid and you should be good...

 

[Vossie]

well there's yer problim....the fuel idle solenoid doesn't have 12 volts- that wire should carry 12 volts to the idle stop solenoid, which opens the idle fuel circuit for you. for basic first time ease of essplaining...put vacuum caps or bb plugged vacuum tubing on all vacuum nipples to eliminate any unwanted leaks- we can go back thru those later and hook them all up to where they go once you get running...the diz has a bolt holding it down- looses the bolt and turn the diz CW or CCW to retard or advance, respectively. small movements equate to degrees of adjustment- little this way, if worse, then back to where it was and a little that way and try again...measure the voltage of the wire from the harness to ground with the key on; it should have power when on and no power when off...hook it up to the wire from the idle stop solenoid and you should be good...

ok, so that wire is quite important then... thanks

when you say put vacuum caps, do you mean just block them off so that theres no way that air could pass through them?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

yes...the engine as an engine will run with no vacuum lines hooked to anything as long as there aren't a bunch of places for unmetered air to enter the combustion stream...you need air, fuel, and spark to fire a combustion engine, whereas your oil burners only need air fuel and heat(thanks to pressure) so, make sure there is gas(idle stop solenoid) make sure there is the right amount of air(functional carb and lack of vacuum leaks) and make sure there is spark(dizzy and ignitor/coil)...it will run...

 

[Vossie]

yes...the engine as an engine will run with no vacuum lines hooked to anything as long as there aren't a bunch of places for unmetered air to enter the combustion stream...you need air, fuel, and spark to fire a combustion engine, whereas your oil burners only need air fuel and heat(thanks to pressure) so, make sure there is gas(idle stop solenoid) make sure there is the right amount of air(functional carb and lack of vacuum leaks) and make sure there is spark(dizzy and ignitor/coil)...it will run...

ok cool. ja, i know the combustion triangle, fuel fire and oxygen. for a diesel the fire comes from heat and compression, the air is, well air, no need for any vacuums or carbs, and the fuel is injected, nice and easy so long as your injector pump works

thanks for the info.

 

[Output Shaft]

Vacuum leaks yeah,
But as lamb mentioned, that sounds like the distributor is installed incorrectly.

Are you absolutely sure that it was installed at TDC compression?

It's easy to think so... but mistakenly get it installed at TDC exhaust.
I made that mistake the first time...even though I had (thought) I'd carefully figured it out.

 

[Vossie]

Vacuum leaks yeah,
But as lamb mentioned, that sounds like the distributor is installed incorrectly.

Are you absolutely sure that it was installed at TDC compression?

It's easy to think so... but mistakenly get it installed at TDC exhaust.
I made that mistake the first time...even though I had (thought) I'd carefully figured it out.

TDC? petrol noob here... on the diesel i would just line all the timing gears up front and make sure the injector pump was put in and timed to the gears...?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

top dead center- ON COMPRESSION rather than on EXHAUST. with valve cover off, turn engine till timing dot on flywheel points at the pointer and both the intake and exhaust valve rockers are loose- cam is on the heel under those 2 lifters; valves are both CLOSED. on the EXHAUST stroke at tdc, the exhaust valve is open and its rocker feels tight...dizzy rotor tip points at #5 plug when out, and twists to about #4 plug once pushed all the way onto the cam gear. then set dizzy with bolt about the middle of the dizzy mounting slot so you have advance and retard adjustment capabilities...

 

[Vossie]

top dead center- ON COMPRESSION rather than on EXHAUST. with valve cover off, turn engine till timing dot on flywheel points at the pointer and both the intake and exhaust valve rockers are loose- cam is on the heel under those 2 lifters; valves are both CLOSED. on the EXHAUST stroke at tdc, the exhaust valve is open and its rocker feels tight...dizzy rotor tip points at #5 plug when out, and twists to about #4 plug once pushed all the way onto the cam gear. then set dizzy with bolt about the middle of the dizzy mounting slot so you have advance and retard adjustment capabilities...

ok, i think i follow all that.

but if this engine was taken out the 45 running, is there any reason to conclude that it would lose its timing just sitting in the garage?

 

[Output Shaft]

If the distributor was never removed, then it should be installed correctly... If the engine ran before...

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

no, did you hook up the wire at the solenoid? the idle circuit could also be blocked; the solenoid could be bad- it should make an audible click sound when the key is shut oN. it doesn't move much, but if it were out, its shaft should move some when activated...

 

[Vossie]

If the distributor was never removed, then it should be installed correctly... If the engine ran before...

the diz, to my knowledge, hasnt been removed since the engine last ran. so im hoping its ok

no, did you hook up the wire at the solenoid? the idle circuit could also be blocked; the solenoid could be bad- it should make an audible click sound when the key is shut oN. it doesn't move much, but if it were out, its shaft should move some when activated...

ok cool, i will start with this tmw when i get back to working on the 45

 

[Vossie]

ok, just about to go work on the 45, but before i do, is any one able to help me identify what these are?

this box with the terminal on the inside of my firewall by the pedals...?

and two things here?

the terminal with the red circle, thats a heat sender unit, right? should go some how to the gauge cluster?

and with the yellow circle, is that a vacuum port covered by the 44 mag casing? where should it go to?

 

[Coolerman]

The box on the firewall is your turn signal flasher relay, the circled sensor is the temp sensor for the gauge in the gauge cluster. The tube with the spent casing on it is where the vacuum brake booster gets it's vacuum from. Keep it sealed until you hook up the brakes. It is a HUGE vacuum leak if left open. Did you put +12V to the idle solenoid? It won't idle until you do that...

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

yeah, cap that BIG VACUUM LEAK with a real plug...

 

[Vossie]

The box on the firewall is your turn signal flasher relay, the circled sensor is the temp sensor for the gauge in the gauge cluster. The tube with the spent casing on it is where the vacuum brake booster gets it's vacuum from. Keep it sealed until you hook up the brakes. It is a HUGE vacuum leak if left open. Did you put +12V to the idle solenoid? It won't idle until you do that...

Ja, hooked that solenoid up to the ignition. didn't seem to make too much of a difference buts that's probably because i didn't plug that leak

but if thats for the brake booster, then what is the vacuum port on the right side of the engine above the starter about 2 thirds up the block... sorry no pics of it right now

yeah, cap that BIG VACUUM LEAK with a real plug...

that would explain why when we cranked her the 44 casing became a bullet in itself

 

[Pin_Head]

Easy guide to first time start up:
1. Verify that your engine has oil pressure and that the rotor of the distributor is pointing to the #1 plug wire when the engine is at TDC.
2. Pour 20 ml or a tablespoon of gasoline into the carb air horn.
3. Crank the engine while rotating the distributor back and forth slowly until it fires.

4. If it does not fire, swap the plug wires on the cap that are opposite one another in case the distributor was installled 180 degrees out. Repeat step 2 and 3.