Teach me about pusher pumps (1 Viewer)

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J

Jan-78FJ40

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I have a 1996 US spec 80 series converted to a 1990 1HD-T. I am reading here about the advantages of installing a pusher pump, but I do not completely understand the logic. The factory HDJ80s did not have that and just the injection pump seems to be fine there.
So why would it be of advantage to install such a pump? And please add specs of the pumps, if you know them (maker, source, flow rate) and how you wired them.
Thanks,
Jan
 
i understand the idea behind them and can see how they would theoretically be beneficial however in my opinion its another electical item that can fail. sure you could possibly remove it in the bush if you have some tools but then you would still be bleeding your fuel system. im sure others will argue my reasoning but thats my .02
 
They reduce the wear/strain on the lift pump in your IP. If you install one, it is important to buy a pull-through designed pump which allows fuel to flow even if the electric pump is not working.

Summit racing sells the Airtex (USA made) pumps at a very good price. Both 24 volt http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATX-E8131/ and 12 volt http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATX-E8153/ applications. I know some 24V guys who have been running one for over a year with no issues. The advertised pressure is a bit high. However, manufacturers tend to exaggerate the PSI. When properly fitted close to the fuel tank, the PSI at your IP will be considerably lower as the resistance from the fuel pipe and filter will reduce the PSI. The main reason of concern with having a high PSI is that there have been reports of high PSI at the IP on a rotary pump advancing the pump timing.
 
There are lower PSI Airtex ones: E8012 6-8 psi , E8016 2-6 psi, E8153 8-12 psi

people swear by the Walbro FRB-5, but they are twice the cost.
 
I went with a Walbro FRD-1 (4.5-7psi) and mounted it just before the fuel filter. No more having to prime after replacing fuel filters, no more fuel starvation on steep inclines, and no fuel issues when really cold. I think I spent $85 for the pump.

Keep in mind that the pump needs to be "fail safe". The Walbro pump will still allow flow through even when the pump has failed. This would save having to remove the pump in the bush should it die.
 
I run the FRB-5; and after the first one clogged the screen... I got in the habit of using a disposable filter in line before the pump, and removed the screen all together.
 
I took power from the power block behind the RHS battery. IGN switched power.
 
Like I said, if you place it by the tank (where they should be installed), the advertised PSI will likely be more like 8-9 at the IP. I may test it at the filter when i install mine. Just have to find an accurate gauge that I can borrow.

Canadians can find the same 24V lift pump for sale at Princess Auto. I checked and they are Airtex pumps. If you live close to the border, then Summit is likely the best place to buy them from. I'm only 3 kms from my mailbox in Sumas Washington but about 40 kms from PA in Langley. Not hard to decide where to buy from. :)
 
canucksafari said:
Best is to connect it via a 24V relay. You can also add switched power to it to make for easy line bleeding or for checking for leaks without running the engine.
Click to expand...

The OP has a 1HDT - therefore 12V. Mine gets power with the key ON and in START. This way it will pump while the starter is going. When I need to prime the fuel filter, I just turn the key on until the pump stops ticking - done.
 
i run them and have no issue, not sure the brand.
seems to help starting
seems to help the power
but
i have no proof it does anything at all.

one of those, i tried it and i like it.

my theory and since i hate the word theory, take it for what it is worth, is that it allows the factory pump do what it is supposed to do, pump fuel to the injection pump.

<shrug>
 
There is nothing magical about the 1HD-T pump. They are a Bosch VE rotary design, used in many applications. Some of which include pusher pumps in the application specs. And, some of which don't. Toyota upped the feed line size not too many years into the 1HD-T life, and did not use a pusher. The folks in Oz started using them a long time ago. Some searches on Mud using Walbro, pusher pump, etc will yield a number of links and discussions.

My understanding is when these pumps are rebuilt and bench tested the specs call for around 5 psi on the backside iirc. That, coupled with a re builders comments that a pusher pump is one of the best things you can do to maximize pump life leaned me to putting one on my truck. FRB5. Just keep it under the numbers discussed.

hth's

gb
 
The case against

The feed pump inside the injection pump can pull up to 54 litres an hour,a 1HZ or 1HD T will only use 12-25 litres an hour,any more and your egts would be through the roof.
I cant see the logic in how it will take the load off the feed pump.The feed pump is running off the main shaft inside the injection pump and spinning all the time.It has 4 vanes that that pick up the fuel and pressurize the inside of the pump to about 7-8 psi.
As wear develops in the feed pump,the spring loaded vanes move down to take up the wear(at least thats my understanding)
The feed pump will usually outlast the other components inside the pump.The only ruined feed pump I have seen was one that had some moisture inside it and after a period of non use it corroded the bottom of the feed pump.
I had a totally worn out fuel pump rebuilt a few years back.It had nearly every major component replaced ,except the feed pump.

If you add any extra pressure to the inside of the pump ,the regulator valve opens up more and sends it back to the tank.
The regulator valve is designed to cope with all viscosities of fuel at all temperatures.
So if the fuel is warm and thin(flowing fast),it will send more back to the tank.If the fuel is thick or cool(flowing slow) it will send less.
If you are not getting enough fuel into the pump,then you need the regulator valve adjusted.

Ive yet to meet anyone in Australia that uses one.There is an owner on one of the east coast forums who jumps up and tells everyone to install one when they have fuel starved engine,but owners looking for real answers have found blocked fuel lines or fuel switch solenoids not working correctly.
Or more commonly,that their pump needs a rebuild.

If your fuel pump appears to be losing pressure at high speed which is normal for a rotary pump with high klms,nothing will help it except a new plunger/and or distrubutor head.These components are compressing fuel to 1800psi and a 5 psi pusher pump will not improve that .

Someone mentioned that Toyota increased the diameter of the fuel lines.This is true,but it was more likely to increase the flow through the fuel pump to keep it cool.One theory is that the early fuel pumps were getting too hot causing some of the components to expand and cause excess wear in the fuel pump.
But Toyota has never released an explanation for that ,so it is all conjecture.

I am still trying to find a real documented case of a pusher pump actually helping a rotary pump that is in good condition.
 
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I have one ( max 12 PSI ) of the Airtex ones .. and I don't use that much .. but it's nice to have when you replace your fuel filter .. and will add one in my 1HD-T soon ..
 
Kinda figured you would show up on this one roscofj73. lol.

Yup, there are thoughts in both directions for sure. Not being a tech, nor guru I cede to those I believe should know. And I've heard from two Bosch Rotary VE re-builders now that they bench test with PSI supplied to the back side of the pump (read to the inlet on the feed pump), and when asked about supplying fuel with a low PSI pusher pump responded it will not no harm and in fact is "probably the best thing you can do to keep the pump off my bench".

hth's the discussion. Everyones gotta decide for themselves which route they want to go.

gb
 
Vw never used on on their pumps, but BMW who also use a Bosch pump used an fuel pump that was only active on starting. It provided quick starts even if there was some problems with air in the pump. Lincoln also used the BMW diesel in 1986 and they used an inline pump that had a built in check valve. It is a good pump to buy for inline. Just ask for a 1985 Diesel 2,4 Lincoln pump. They do exist and it is the only pump with the right pressure and check valve.
 
vixentd said:
Lincoln also used the BMW diesel in 1986 and they used an inline pump that had a built in check valve. It is a good pump to buy for inline. Just ask for a 1985 Diesel 2,4 Lincoln pump. They do exist and it is the only pump with the right pressure and check valve.
Click to expand...

Rockauto sells both a Delphi and an Airtex pump for that engine: 1985 LINCOLN MARK VII Fuel Pump
 
I guess it's a case of belts and braces.
I got my B (with rotary pump) off a scrapheap so I was never sure what filters went with it, or where they were located. I picked up a dual filter set-uo, from an Isuzu ( Both spin on but the first one with a water trap, the second with a manual primer). For peace of mind I fitted a pump ( Copy of an english phasett- flow through). As mentioned it's great for priming but I often forget to switch it on and have never had a problem. even when parked nose up and emptyish tank down for over a month, it still started .
I am now considdering a 1um filter. Does the IP lift pump manage to suck through on of these?
Anyone with experiance in this area?

G
 
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