Take Death Trap to the next level (1 Viewer)

[workingdog]

Okay, it's a week before we're supposed to go to Rubithon, and here's where I'm at.

1) The 1 1/4" master cylinder is in, it's better, i'm hoping one more bleed will do it.
2) I can't install the sway bar because I don't have a break, and the one attempt I made to bend the arms I have ruined an arm. So, unless I find a break, I'm going without sway bars. Lowering the upper link frame side mount helped, so it might be survivable. Also, it looks like we'll be towing to Auburn, so that eliminates 2.5 hours of high speed driving from the trip.
3) There's a leak between the AA adapter and the Atlas transfer case. I have no idea what I did wrong. I think we're just going to run with it ang bring extra trans fluid.
4) Can't put the ARB air lines to the axles because we lost part of one of the banjo bolts in the whole process. I'm sure it will turn up, but for now ... I've ordered new parts, but we might have to run with just one locker
5) but the kicker is the small coolant leak we assume was a loose hose. I finally realized I needed to pull the radiator and as soon as I got it out I could see the crack in the aluminum in the bottom on one side. So, I'm off to the only real radiator shop in the county to see if he can fix it. If he can't, we're screwed because it's 3-5 days for champion to even ship, let alone for it to arrive.

So, rubithon is a big 50/50 right now. I hate it when this happens.

 

[workingdog]

So, the drama continues. Local guy was able to TIG the crack in the radiator for me. So, after a few mishaps, the cooling system appears to be functioning - yea. I was able to bleed the brakes again and take it for a test drive, and the brakes are better - they feel great at the start, but you can still push all the way to the floor, you can't lock the brakes up - so, maybe one more bleed or ... there's some larger issue with the system.

Taking for a test drive, the body roll is still frightening. And I won't be able to get the sway bar arms in until next week, so not in time for Rubithon.

However, there was a rubbing noise going down hill. Looking around, we can see the shift linkage on the side of the 4l80 is rubbing the front driveshaft. there's 1/2 clear on flat ground, but just going down a steep grade enough to get it to rub, let alone a big bump. So, I think that one is going to make it impossible to take the fj40 to Rubithon. Hate to have the front driveshaft snap the shift lever off the transmission.

Long term, there's currently a long rod on the shift lever coming out of the 4l80. It's space for a neutral safety switch. We can swap it out for a shorter one (about 3/4" shorter) which would move the shift lever mostly out of the front drive shaft's path. We could also move the drivetrain over another 1/2" to 1" to the passenger side, but then the fan will be into the lower radiator hose. I'm going electric, so that problem will go away, but not soon. But, it also shoves the exhaust even more into the fuel line. So, if we do that, we are moving the fuel line. Also, we could clock the Atlas down an inch more which would give us a bit more room, but that would mean modifying the support structure so it has room (only about 1/2" now). Both are a pain and a lot of work.

And, there's still the leak at the transfer case of trans fluid. And, there's at least one tire rub. And, there's no bump stops, and I think we need them in back. And no limit strap. And we need them in back.

So, life sorting out a 40 after a major modification.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, so I'm finally getting back to this. Even though the radiator was fixed, shifting the engine over caused the mechanical fan to rub the radiator hose (which we found out on our first test run when it sprayed the engine bay with coolant) and really wasn't going to work.

So I bought the 4 core champion radiator with electric fan. The 4 core is so fat, I had to do some modifications to the support for it to fit and it took some searching to find a lower hose. I ran the steam port into a coupler in the middle of the top hose.

And, I had to completely replumb the PS cooling and transmission cooling lines. That was a PITA, but it really cleaned things up with the trans now going to the radiator and the PS going to what was the old PS cooler.

I used the Davis Craig digital electric fan controller because it has an LED display and is settable. It was easy to wire up. I used a probe in the radiator, which is reading about 10 degrees low from the block with a significant delay. So, I may switch to a block sensor if I can figure out where to put it with one hole being used for the ECM sensor and the other for the gauge.

 

[cruisermatt]

What was the reason for the fan controller rather then just having your ECU controller it?

 

[workingdog]

I ordered a sway bar from Currie. I installed the sleeve in the frame before totally figuring all the geometry out. The arms needed to be bent out about 3", and I tried cutting the back of the arms and bending them, but that failed. So, I bought the SWAG brake kit, which is great, and I waited a month for functioning press to arrive from Northern Tool. But, the SWAG break did a great job bending the arms. I assumed that they needed to be 45 out and 45 back, but I realized they could be any matching angle - and that at the end, the arm could point out a little to get a little more tire clearance. I've been told that the arms can twist and fail and that they need to be reinforced - anyone have any data on that?

I didn't realize at first that arm length effects stiffness - which of course it does. the longer the arms, the softer. I had located my torsion bar pretty far back. So I ended up biasing the plates that come with the kit forwards to shorten the effective arm length. I can always move the the plates to adjust if I need to, but the first drive was a huge improvement. One roll and it comes right back up, and the roll is less frightening.

 

[workingdog]

One of the early things we noticed was a scraping noise and when we checked the front driveline, there was a line where it had been scraping against the 4l80e's shift arm. I've got a new one come, but it looks like swapping the drive line end for end and a shorter arm should solve the problem. If not, a bump stop will fix it. It's interesting, looking at it on the left with that wheel jacked up, it looks like there's no way it would ever contact the shifter.

And, with the front drive line out, so we can keep testing it, there is still a scraping noise - or a gear noise - or a bad bearing - down hill with no throttle and no load. So, there's still something going on, but it might just be the Atlas. I've never sat right on top of one before. I'm going to mount gopro under today to watch what's going on and see if I see anything.

 

[workingdog]

What was the reason for the fan controller rather then just having your ECU controller it?

the wires aren't coming out of the ECM, and I didn't want to spend half a day figuring out which ones and repinning it. We're going to Holley Terminator eventually, I swap over then.

the fan works great though. Seems loud if you turn it on with the engine off, but you can't hear it over the engine. I'm going to have to run a LED in the cab to watch when it goes on and off.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, not sure if this will work, but these are links to gopro videos of the rear suspension working.

gopro rear suspension - https://gopro.com/v/m0WbPGZnmg3Vv

gopro rear suspension from rear bumper - https://gopro.com/v/y8L3WozOaoee1

 

[workingdog]

I had a slow leak between the AA adapter and the Atals II. I assume I had missed some gasket.

I posted about this separately on the 40 board. There were two holes in the back of the 4l80e (apparently 2 wheel drive? The 4 wheel drive the holes are plugged?) that were letting gobs of trans fluid into the Advance Adapters adapter to the Atlas II. Now, AA doesn't really realize the consequences of that as they have the junction of the adapter and the Atlas II dry, as they expect the adapter to be dry. But, there is no easy way to plug the holes. The soft plugs from the factory are not available. AA finally said to RTV the junction between the adapter and the Atlas II.

So, I tapped the two hole and put plugs in (with lots of loctite red) and also RTV'd the junction.

So, the Atlas is back in place along with all the stuff that had to come out to get it back in.
The sway bar is installed and the sway is down from terrifying to just concerning.
The brakes are better, but I'm going to get the right MC from Wilwood and we'll bench bleed it this time.
And the front driveshaft is out so I can sort out everything else.

My only remaining issue is that when going down hill and you get to the point where is no load on the rig, there is a sound coming from the drive train that sounds like metal rubbing, or gear lash. I've topped off the differentials and videoed with the doors off and so I can hear and I cannot figure out what it is. Could it be the driveshaft is not quite alinged right?

Tomorrow, I'm going to put the front drive shaft back in and video it with the gopro and see if there really is any contact. A friend came and said I could just use a bump stop to keep any contact from happening.

So, I'm very close to being Rubicon ready. but almost the entire trail is closed for evacuation due to the Caldor fire. They say to Sept 30th. So, may be I'll get one trip in, in October.

Let's all hope the fire is stopped soon.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, below are links to two videos of the front driveshaft and the shift arm I was having interference with. the first is at the axle, it doesn't show the shift contact very well, but it does show how much the leaf spring shackle moves around while it's working. There's a fair amount of side to side along with the up and down. The second video shows the shifter better. This is with the driveshaft flipped end for end, which helped. but, if you jump to 2:08, you'll see the very end of the fat part of the driveshaft contact the nut on the shifter. So, it's still an issue. I could get the driveshaft rebuilt with the fat part 2" shorter, but I'm also going to replace the shift arm with one an inch shorter, which should eliminate the entire problem, or I could install a bump stop. That point at 2:08 is under heavy braking. At the end, I go offroad instead of taking my driveway, and you can see with all the action, without the load the braking puts on the front suspension, I'm not sure there's contact.

front drive shaft from axle

Shared using GoPro

gopro.com

Shared using GoPro

Shared using GoPro

gopro.com

 

[cruisermatt]

Nice videos.

for the shackles, fresh bushings will help. Also i can’t remember, those should be 9/16” shackle bolts, what spring bushings do you have, 40 style with 16mm ID or 60 style with 18mm ID?
Most guys just run it loose like that and don't care.

I couldn’t find a sleeve to go from 9/16” to 18mm anywhere so I machined them myself.

 

[workingdog]

Those are brand new bushings - in the frame, that's where I'm seeing all the movement.

 

[workingdog]

okay, for posterity, here's the update. @bentntwisted dropped by to help me look for the scaping sound. He immediately didn't like the pinion angle, so we put it on the lift and adjust the upper links until it was much closer. And that was that, test drive the noise is gone - thanks bentntwisted.

When we got back from our test drive, he also noticed the toe was off, so we measure, there is almost 2" of toe in. And then he checked the caster - only 1 degree. So, no I have a fun day, taking the front axles back off, putting 4 degree shims in, fixing the toe while I'm in there, and shoving it all back together. Yea!!

But, the body movement, even with sway bar is still beyond acceptable. I'm going to move the sway bar to the 'max' hole. And I have some beefier shocks coming - eventually. But, I'm going to need to find stiffer springs than the clown springs I have now. I'd love to get the car down 2", but I can't see how.

 

[cruisermatt]

2” of toe in?? Sounds i had a math fail that day.
Interesting that caster was only 1 degree, i seem to recall it being 2-3 at first, must be the springs settling in.
Those bilstein rears are way too soft, the stiffer shocks will make a nice difference. What did you get?

 

[workingdog]

So, with the toe and caster adjusted, it steers nicer, but no change to the body roll issue. When @bentntwisted was here, he said he thought my lower links were part of the problem. When I laid it out, I did it fully triangulate, I though that was ideal, but it's not, particularly for a crawler. I found this great Busted Knuckle video

That 'splains it.

If you fully triangulate your lowers in the rear so that they are very close at frame. Like this.

And you draw a line along each lower link to where they intersect, that's your roll instant center, and it's under the transfer case, which is very low.

If you separate the links, because they are sloping up at about 10 degrees, the lines meet in front of the engine, and much higher. Draw a line from that point back to the point for the upper links (which is right on top of the differential, that's your roll axis. For crawling, you want that to be pretty close to your center of gravity - like 80% - mine is probably at 40% right now. So, I'm going to abandon those link mounts that Matt so assiduously crammed in there and mount them more outboard.

The question is, do I go to the slanted up right or all the way to the underside of frame?

 

[workingdog]

Okay, so the good new is math and geometry work! Yea! The change in the ride is remarkable. Back to almost like it was with leaf springs. It's still a little weird when the weight moves front to back, but I think I may have to lighten up on the sway bar - which is now at maximum.

The bad news is, it was a major PITA.
Measured the new location carefully and mounted the bracket in what should have been the right spot. The pinion angle was horrible. Took it down, moved it back 1/2" and the pinion angle still pretty bad. Took it down again, put it back another 1/2", and now I'm pretty close. Just needs a little adjustment of the links to get the driveline from 'talking' to me downhill.

So, back up on the lift one more time and final weld it in and adjust the links.

 

[cruisermatt]

Pics!!

 

[workingdog]

Here's the new link.

It ended up 10 degrees. Should be perfect.

I'm trying to decide what to hang from the old link mounts - bull's testicles? Fuzzy dice?

 

[workingdog]

We took down the transmission pan to change out the shift arm and check the calibration of the dipstick. And when we took it down, there was a shop rag still in the pan from the last work done on it. And, we didn't realize it until we tried to put the new shift arm, we broke off the end of the old shift arm trying to get it out.

But, even with the rag out and the transmission back together, I'm still seeing 200 - 220 temperatures around town, when I used to never see it get over 180 when it was on it's own cooler in front of the transmission. I gave the cooler to the power steering and moved the transmission to the transmission ports on the brand new aluminum 4 core radiator I put on. Shouldn't I be getting more cooling from the trans cooling part of the radiator than a little 12"x12" unit had before? Or, should I swap the PS and trans back so the PS is using the radiator?

 

[workingdog]

So, just to update this thread. Really struggling to work out the kinks. The transmission was still heating up. So, I pulled the radiator one more time and put the biggest transmission cooler on I could get. But, still, coming home from a half hour drive, smoke is pouring out the back. On getting home, I tracked it down, and it turns out the exhaust was in contact with the transmission in the front corner. It appeared to be cooking the transmission and causing it to leak. In addition, the dipstick, which was located in that same corner, had backed out of the transmission.

The reason the the exhaust was routed so close, was because the fuel lines and fuel filter had been routed down that side before we switched from passenger drop to driver's drop. So, this morning, I did what I should have done originally and moved the fuel line to the other side, and took the rig down to the muffler shop and had that part redone. They didn't move it as much as I wanted, but there's no more contact.

So, tomorrow, I'm hoping to have my first really successful test drive - I'm hoping for no more smoke out the back.