Suspension kit arrived....

[ShottsUZJ100]

It is a little difficult to explain everything here since there we discussed the pro's and the cons over the phone.

Fitting the 863 is not the solutions. The 866 is the right spring for this application. Mike was aware and knows how to retain the springs. If need be, it needs to be done top and bottom.

863's will yield about 4" of lift in the rear and the front can not be set up to match. So he will have a rake of about 2". That is not going to work. Plus the ride won't be nice.

The bumper issue was also discussed at that time it was not in the cards.

"Dealing with the unseated springs" is meant to be make sure they don't. Not go on the trail and figure out what to do when they fall out

No bumper. Hmm. Well, then I guess he probably will have to retain that spring from the top also. If he does that he's set.

4" lift with an 863 on a 100? How come you don't get 4" on an 80 with an 863? I'm at 4" on my 80 and have 20mm atop the spring.

 

[spressomon]

The 863's will sit way high on a 100 series with no bumper. We speced the suspension based on what is on the truck and for the proper ride.

Using 863's just to gain height with no regard to the load on the truck is not wise.

Ride is subjective, but the 863's would be way to stiff for most people.

I run 866's in my truck in the rear with just a rear bumper (no tire carrier) and it sits perfect and the ride is really nice.

Bluecruiser: I encourage you to take Christo's advice...I can vouch for this as I did my LC in phases (865, 866 ad 863 and next Christo's custom 100 HD spring when he gets it ready for us ) and the 863 without added significant weight over the rear end (like Slee bumper with tire carrier AND filled AO drawers) is going to be too much spring (too high and too stiff).

 

[spressomon]

Oh yea...more than my $.02

 

[SINCITY100]

Mike, don't get ahead on yourself. Install the suspension as we discussed. The unseating of the spring due to running the L shocks is just something you have to deal with. Putting packers in there is not going to change the unseating. If the spring becomes unseated, the packer will also move around. Make sure the bottom of the spring is retained, then flex the truck out and check that the spring can not come out of the cone at the top.

I agree.

A simple retainer at the bottom of the spring SHOULD be enough to prevent any suprises and a quick "test" will tell you if more work is in order to complete your mod. Packers IMO however, are not the way to go unless you really HAVE to use them.

Dont worry... The increase in performance with the L-shock is quite dramatic and you will be VERY happy when you get everything worked out

One thang I DO know , is you dont need no stinkin` retainer with the 864s

 

[bluecruiser]

Just to let everyone know...I have spoken with all of the awesome guys at Slee....I am just trying to gather as much info as possible on all potential problems, hangups etc.

*************Christo Slee made the proper recommendations to me based on his years of experience with my vehicle************

I am very happy with his knowledge and customer service.

He is right on about the bumper...I do not have one and probably won't for awhile...

Let's not have another N74L fiasco on this forum....I will run the 866's (retained top and bottom) along with the N74L...I can hardly wait.....

Thanks again to Christo and everyone out there....

 

[bluecruiser]

busted bolts in the frame are drilled out and retapped....What a pain when you have broken off drill bits in the bolts....Friday is scheduled arrival for coils and proper shock bushings...Hopefully next week everything will be on....

 

[Greg B]

An 80 and a 100 is not the same truck. They do not react to the springs in terms of lift the same way.

I can confirm this. When I got home from Moab, I took out my cargo drawers and all the gear that was in them. My 100 went up a full inch! The 863 with no load on it is tall on a 100. I would say it is easily 4 inches of lift and definitely 2 inches taller than an 866.

I am actually considering putting my old 866's back in for normal driving and moderate off-roading. And then just changing to the 863's for longer trips that I only do a couple times a year.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I can confirm this. When I got home from Moab, I took out my cargo drawers and all the gear that was in them. My 100 went up a full inch! The 863 with no load on it is tall on a 100. I would say it is easily 4 inches of lift and definitely 2 inches taller than an 866.

I am actually considering putting my old 866's back in for normal driving and moderate off-roading. And then just changing to the 863's for longer trips that I only do a couple times a year.

Any "techy" thoughts as to why the big differenece between an 80 and 100?

You seen my pics above. The 863 only gets about 3" on an 80. Ideas?

 

[Greg B]

The 863's will sit way high on a 100 series with no bumper. We speced the suspension based on what is on the truck and for the proper ride.

Using 863's just to gain height with no regard to the load on the truck is not wise.

Ride is subjective, but the 863's would be way to stiff for most people.

I run 866's in my truck in the rear with just a rear bumper (no tire carrier) and it sits perfect and the ride is really nice.

Christo,
I don't understand what you're saying here. The 866 is just as heavy of a spring as the 863. Actually the 866 is stiffer than the 863 once some weight is on it since it is progressive from 240 to 300 lbf/in. The 863 is 250 lbf/in linear right?

When I went from the 866 to the 863, I really couldn't tell any difference on the ride quality, just height. If BlueCruiser's not going to be happy with the stiffness of an 863, he won't like an 866 either. Wouldn't an 865 be the better choice?

 

[Greg B]

Any "techy" thoughts as to why the big differenece between an 80 and 100?

You seen my pics above. The 863 only gets about 3" on an 80. Ideas?

It could be several things. The first that comes to my mind is the height of the spring perch that the coil sits on. If it sits higher on the axle tube of a 100, its like having a spacer on an 80. Also, it could be the height of the top area that holds the coil spring in. Maybe it's welded in a little lower on the frame in a 100. Christo said it best. They ain't the same vehicle. The dimensions of where the spring sits compared to where the body lines can be very different. Just because they weigh about the same doesn't mean the dimensions are the same.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Christo,
I don't understand what you're saying here. The 866 is just as heavy of a spring as the 863. Actually the 866 is stiffer than the 863 once some weight is on it since it is progressive from 240 to 300 lbf/in. The 863 is 250 lbf/in linear right?

When I went from the 866 to the 863, I really couldn't tell any difference on the ride quality, just height. If BlueCruiser's not going to be happy with the stiffness of an 863, he won't like an 866 either. Wouldn't an 865 be the better choice?

Exactly. Had Bluecruiser ordered 865's I'd never of said anything negative about the choice to not opt for the 863. When I seen 866, I seen "load in the back" and therefore the 863 being the better choice ONLY because he wants L-shocks. If he didn't want L-shocks I wouldn't have spoken up either.

 

[Greg B]

The other option that may work nicely on a 100 is the 860. It's about the same height as the 863, but a lower spring rate like the 865. I've also been considering this spring too because it would work well with the N74L height-wise but be smoother when running with no load in the cargo area.

I think I'll wait to see how BlueCruiser does with the 866's first though since I have a set of those sitting in the garage already. The thing that bothers me about the 866 is that the spring will unload and pull away from the upper mount every time it flexes. I had this type of setup on a LR in the past and I hated it.

It was noisy and un-nerviing when that spring unloaded and the weight of the truck shifted. I don't get that effect with the 863 now. It never unloads enough to shift the weight like that even when fully flexed.

What would be the best way to retain the top of the spring? Maybe take out the cone all-together and put a plate to hold the spring, and then put the cone back in on top of the plate?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

It could be several things. The first that comes to my mind is the height of the spring perch that the coil sits on. If it sits higher on the axle tube of a 100, its like having a spacer on an 80. Also, it could be the height of the top area that holds the coil spring in. Maybe it's welded in a little lower on the frame in a 100. Christo said it best. They ain't the same vehicle. The dimensions of where the spring sits compared to where the body lines can be very different. Just because they weigh about the same doesn't mean the dimensions are the same.

Makes sense. I thought of that stuff though me not smart enough to know.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

The other option that may work nicely on a 100 is the 860. It's about the same height as the 863, but a lower spring rate like the 865. I've also been considering this spring too because it would work well with the N74L height-wise but be smoother when running with no load in the cargo area.

I think I'll wait to see how BlueCruiser does with the 866's first though since I have a set of those sitting in the garage already. The thing that bothers me about the 866 is that the spring will unload and pull away from the upper mount every time it flexes. I had this type of setup on a LR in the past and I hated it.

It was noisy and un-nerviing when that spring unloaded and the weight of the truck shifted. I don't get that effect with the 863 now. It never unloads enough to shift the weight like that even when fully flexed.

What would be the best way to retain the top of the spring? Maybe take out the cone all-together and put a plate to hold the spring, and then put the cone back in on top of the plate?

860....yes! Wow, that sounds like a GREAT 100-N74J experiment Greg.

LR? Yes. On one run with retained springs, a RR lost both and was stranded. The trail was too tough for the retainers.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Christo,
I don't understand what you're saying here. The 866 is just as heavy of a spring as the 863. Actually the 866 is stiffer than the 863 once some weight is on it since it is progressive from 240 to 300 lbf/in. The 863 is 250 lbf/in linear right?

Technically yes it is the same numbers. It just does not drive the same. I put 866's in the rear of my truck even before I had the rear bumper on it, and it drove fine. It sat a little high in the back, but I liked that so that when I hook the trailer up, it sat level. It is slightly lower now that I put the bumper on the back, and the ride is fine.

When we tried 863's in the back of a previous truck, it was way to high and stiff. Sometimes the numbers on the springs does not translate to real world experience. Don't as me why.

When I went from the 866 to the 863, I really couldn't tell any difference on the ride quality, just height. If BlueCruiser's not going to be happy with the stiffness of an 863, he won't like an 866 either. Wouldn't an 865 be the better choice?

It might but I like the progressive spring more for people that might load it up once in a while.

The other option that may work nicely on a 100 is the 860. It's about the same height as the 863, but a lower spring rate like the 865. I've also been considering this spring too because it would work well with the N74L height-wise but be smoother when running with no load in the cargo area.

We recently did the 860's in a customers truck. No load on the rear but a small roofrack. In my opinion it gave the perfect amount of lift and a nice ride. Would not handle to much wheight when loaded up for for running around in stock form with a lift I think that is a good option.

 

[sleeoffroad]

What would be the best way to retain the top of the spring? Maybe take out the cone all-together and put a plate to hold the spring, and then put the cone back in on top of the plate?

Until you have wheeled a coil sprung vehicle with both the top and the bottom of the spring retained you will not know what you are missing. It was the single best thing that I did to the ShortBus. No more unloading when climbing or going down steep decents.

As to how to do it. I would have to check the top of the 100 series. On the Shortbus I actually run a spacer and then a flat bar bolted to the spring perch that holds the top wrap of the coil. I have also seen people use small U bolts around the spring. Not sure if you can get the nuts onto the top of the coil perch.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

It was the single best thing that I did to the ShortBus. No more unloading when climbing or going down steep decents.

Wow....this intrigues me. Makes sense. Hmmmm.

 

[Greg B]

Until you have wheeled a coil sprung vehicle with both the top and the bottom of the spring retained you will not know what you are missing. It was the single best thing that I did to the ShortBus. No more unloading when climbing or going down steep decents.

As to how to do it. I would have to check the top of the 100 series. On the Shortbus I actually run a spacer and then a flat bar bolted to the spring perch that holds the top wrap of the coil. I have also seen people use small U bolts around the spring. Not sure if you can get the nuts onto the top of the coil perch.

I completely agree. On my LR, while I wheeled it with springs unretained with drop cones, I hated it. I added retainers to the top of the springs and liked the ride much better when flexed out.

Do you think an 866 will stretch enough to get full droop from the N74L's if it's retained on the top and bottom? If so, I could start with an 866 and add trim packers to get the exact height I want and the retain the top of the spring and the packer together.

One other note, on the 863's, I don't think top retainers are necessary. I never got that "unloading, weight shifting feeling" in Moab and I only had the bottoms retained as insurance.

 

[SALEH]

before i use 863`s with 20mm trims without bomber just tow master i hate the tims pack.... i order 864`s i got 1'' without trims packs slee i know that 863`s more comformt its seems like i drive vehicle with AHC but their is any problem if i use 3 trims packs so i got 30mm ?

 

[SINCITY100]

Ride is subjective, but the 863's would be way to stiff for most people.

Christo,

How would you descibe the ride quality w/bumpers and drawers when running 864s on a 100 ?