AltFuel Supplemental Hydrogen Generator

[gerg]

I agree with retarding the timing a bit. I would surmise that the HHO is going to accelerate the burn pattern of the diesel, and thus you could gain power by not injecting the diesel so much before TDC.

I would not concern yourself too much with octane and the like... this is a diesel, no fuel has enough octane to resist our cylinder temps. It will all auto ignite given the chance. This is why I am usually concerned with air fuel percentages (ratio) with this and propane injection. If your ratio gets high enough (like above 2% in some cases) the fuel will auto ignite. I prefer to look at the HOO as a cetane additive, or something along those lines.
Id love to see your pics even if you clamp it down with duct tape
G

 

[sogafarm]

FJ60 MagDrive HHO 11a installation pictures

Finally had time to clean up the install with the help of a couple of friends. I used C-channel aluminum for a bracket and flat aluminum bar to hold the c-trap and a-traps(pvc cylinders with superthane hoses at right angles at top and bottoms).

1.The "Brick" is mounted down below on the fender well. It's made from nasa grade material, not pvc.

2.The tube running from the brick goes up into the A-trap with the level sensor inside. This eliminates most of the condensation and sends a signal to the water pump to turn on when the level inside is low.

3.From the A-trap top, a tube runs to the C-trap which acts as a second condensation trap. this comes with the booster air pump accessory.

4. From the top of the c-trap, tube runs to the 12v booster pump, then around the back of the air cleaner through a check valve and T-fitted into the intake vacuum tube located in the riser under the carb. I have added today a venturi and another hose running into the air cleaner to see if this makes a difference. I will get another check valve and insert it into the tube running into the air cleaner. There is a huge vacuum leak that affects the idle without a check valve.

5. I retarded the timing to where the dot is just on the engine side of the mark on the flywheel and adjusted the idle back up.

 

[sogafarm]

hho instal pics try 2

magdrive install 82 fj60

 

[sogafarm]

more pics

larger view

 

[calphi27]

I'm just going to put this out there, that does look like pvc. How do you think all that plastic is going to hold up to a long road trip in the summer?

 

[gerg]

Kewl powerhound. Any difference in how it runs? Sorry bout the lecture on octane... I thought you drove a diesel hehe. Cant wait for some numbers from ya. How long did it take ya to build it by the way? I was thinking of building one as well.
Umm just a weird thought... What happens to your passenger if ya get in an accident? Doh! I guess the aluminum would buckle first. It is aluminum and not stainless right ??? gulp?
G

 

[crushers]

hold on, Tom, this thread isn't about common sense.

I have a sure fire way to double your gas mileage. Park the cruiser and buy a Civic

Tom

 

[sogafarm]

Kewl powerhound. Any difference in how it runs? Sorry bout the lecture on octane... I thought you drove a diesel hehe. Cant wait for some numbers from ya. How long did it take ya to build it by the way? I was thinking of building one as well.
Umm just a weird thought... What happens to your passenger if ya get in an accident? Doh! I guess the aluminum would buckle first. It is aluminum and not stainless right ??? gulp?
G

The kit is from Magdrive MagDrive Fuel From H2O - HHO Generators. It comes complete with everything except the mounting bracket(which is aluminum c-channel stock). I've had the unit in the cruiser since april and have gone from 10mpg with no hho to 15+mpg with hho on average(and yes, I know that a well tuned 2f gets 15mpg but mines not a well tuned cruiser). this was with a carb that is in dyer need of a rebuild and an emissions system that is f#$ked. All on the to do list. I wish I had the diesel instead of the gas hog for a tester.

x2 on buying a civic for gas mileage. By no means am I advocating a cruiser over a honda for mpg's.

I'm using the cruiser as a test bed for the system. If it can help an old beast like the fj60 improve then a modern car should see much better results. We are waiting on our second unit to arrive(takes about 10 days on average from order to delivery) which is the micro processor controlled double brick, twice the output, to put in a 1999 ford f-250. I'll post the results when available.

As for long summer trips in the cruiser and the heat issue, at 4.50 a gal, there are no long summer trips planned this year in the cruiser.

 

[zuluzeugma]

To sniper:

6 months ago, I said the following in this thread and I still stand by it.

I wouldn't be so quick to write EVERYTHING off. The law of conservation of energy most definitely applies to the situation. IF the auto cycle was 100% thermodynamically efficient, than you could throw any kind of artificial aspiration out the window as well as hydrogen generation. The problem is that the Otto cycle, as it stands, is limited by thermodynamic principles. As the compression ratio of an Otto cycle engines goes up, the thermodynamic efficiency also goes up. This is also true with the diesel cycle. We all know that not all the fuel is burnt in the Otto cycle and with advancements in fuel injection, this problem has become much better, but it still exists.

If the hydrogen generator takes 10% of the engine's power to split water into HH and O but allows for 20% more fuel to be burnt, you have won.

Saying this, I highly doubt that this system is advanced enough to provide 20-28% fuel economy increases. However, There are several people who are doing Hydrogen injection with diesels with incredible results. The difference: They are packing a welding bottle full of HH in the truck with them much like a Nitrous bottle. In the future, I don't doubt this system will become a reality and it will function just like a super charger or a turbo charger: It will take power from the engine to increase the thermodynamic efficiency.

My two cents…

 

[american psycho]

How do you know it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than you get out of it? You maybe right at this day and time but it will happen. You are really not creating hydrogen any ways just seperating it.

Fuel injection takes more electrical energy to run over the Carb. does that make the carburetor more efficient?

The numbers do look crazy saying you can get 100miles to one ounce of water. I'm hoping to get 10mpg on water.

On Submarines they've been doing it for decades. They seperate the oxygen and the hydrogen. We want the oxygen and put the hydrogen off the ship.

on submarines they power the electrolysis with a nuclear reactor.

now there's an idea, mini fission plant on the fj 40 to provide the HYDROGEN that is combusted.

i've got real good information from the internet that says you can double your size and please all women - you clowns buying that stuff too?

no wait, i've got a bridge in new york for sale CHEAP. just send me a wire.

 

[sogafarm]

my blinkers pull more amps than this system.

8 amps...How much engine power do you think it robs to produce 8 amps? 2-4 liter of hho per minute is what is being produced at 8 amps.

Truckers use this same system all over the U.S. to save average of 25% mpg. A trucker originally told me about this system.

8 AMPS! How much do the average headlights draw?

 

[crushers]

hummm, snake oil maybe
but
i am starting to like the idea...

 

[gerg]

Impressive results congrats!
Your unit produces 2-4L at 8 amp draw? Is this the smacks booster design, or something else?

G

 

[sogafarm]

Impressive results congrats!
Your unit produces 2-4L at 8 amp draw? Is this the smacks booster design, or something else?

G

MagDrive Fuel From H2O - HHO Generators . Magdrive 11a single brick model. $399

 

[womacje]

Powderhound,

I was looking around on Magdrives site and I couldn't find anything about working with the ecu. a quick blurb about the ecu being able to handle everything, and one quick write up on how to, it looks like, modify your 02 signal... Have you looked into doing this on a newer OBDII system?
I'll check with them, but I would trust a Mudder before a manufacturer on something this new and controversial.

PS. I used to live in edwards, worked at Cordillera, Chair 6 at the Beav and for Timberline Tours. I'm jealous.

 

[sogafarm]

Powderhound,

I was looking around on Magdrives site and I couldn't find anything about working with the ecu. a quick blurb about the ecu being able to handle everything, and one quick write up on how to, it looks like, modify your 02 signal... Have you looked into doing this on a newer OBDII system?
I'll check with them, but I would trust a Mudder before a manufacturer on something this new and controversial.

PS. I used to live in edwards, worked at Cordillera, Chair 6 at the Beav and for Timberline Tours. I'm jealous.

We're waiting on a 12a double brick unit to come in(I think they are getting backed up on orders) and we have it going in a 1999 ford f-250 which has the obdII. Talking with the magdrive guys, the unit will not need any modifications to the ecu(which is technically illegal).

The recommended procedure on newer cars is first disconnect the battery for safety reasons and to re-boot the ecu. Second, hho out hose on an obdII vehicle should go as close to the intake manifold as possible and after the MAF/MAP sensor. This is all that has to be done. No modifications to the O2 sensor or "efiee" should have to be used, which is illegal to sell or use. The ecu should automatically correct and lean itself out when using the hho system.

As soon as our new unit comes in and is installed, I will have some numbers to post. The hardest part is the wait time.

PS. were you a raft guide at timberline. I used to guide for lakota and Nova. Also have worked on many of the mcmansions in cordillera as a finish carpenter. Yeah, its rough up here.

 

[WES1977]

We're waiting on a 12a double brick unit to come in(I think they are getting backed up on orders) and we have it going in a 1999 ford f-250 which has the obdII. Talking with the magdrive guys, the unit will not need any modifications to the ecu(which is technically illegal).

The recommended procedure on newer cars is first disconnect the battery for safety reasons and to re-boot the ecu. Second, hho out hose on an obdII vehicle should go as close to the intake manifold as possible and after the MAF/MAP sensor. This is all that has to be done. No modifications to the O2 sensor or "efiee" should have to be used, which is illegal to sell or use. The ecu should automatically correct and lean itself out when using the hho system.

As soon as our new unit comes in and is installed, I will have some numbers to post. The hardest part is the wait time.

PS. were you a raft guide at timberline. I used to guide for lakota and Nova. Also have worked on many of the mcmansions in cordillera as a finish carpenter. Yeah, its rough up here.

I'm sure lots of people are interested in your end result on this site. I hope this works.
My FJ62 would be my first one to get it.

 

[womacje]

Powder,
I was a raft guide and a jeep driver for them back in '98-99 ish.

I'm also following the HAFC thread in the 80 section and there is alot of crap that goes with that kit, that circumvents the ecu and tricks this, resistor that... I'd be happy with less than 50% mpg improvement without f'n up my ecu, seems too risky.

 

[sogafarm]

womac,
yeah, 98-99 I was ski teching at gorsuch at da beav, raft guide from 95-98.

I'll check out the 80 hafc thread. Is that the same company out of jersey that claims they're coming out with the picc(pre ignition catalytic converter)?

If so, I put in for a quote on the picc, but they kept pushing the hafc unit which seems to be an hho system, some additive, and a manual lean/rich adjuster.

I told them that I already had a working hho system and just wanted the picc quote, but they've been dangling that carrot for a while now and say you have to have the hafc system to get the picc(seems fishy). I do like the idea of their inline fuel heater, don't know if it does anything but it's only $50, so might be worth a try.

 

[83bj60]

The particular system i am looking at will increase fuel efficency 20 to 28 percent. It is a bolt on system that injects hydrogen into the fuel intake system. The hydrogen is generated by drawing 4 to 10 amps running thur a small tank with distilled water in it. Burns cleaner, more power etc.

Sorry, but as a way to 'increase efficiency', it's utter scientific hogwash, just like perpetual motion machines.

If you are using your engine's electrical generating capacity to electrolyse water, for every unit of energy used at the pulley you may retrieve something like 70% in electricity. Now you are taking that 70% and turning water into hydrogen and oxygen. Let's say you produce the equivalent of 50% of the energy you took from the pulley. Now you are burning that 50%. Remember combustion efficiency? You could get at most 30% from that energy back into the vehicle. That's a net 15%!!!

How can anyone claim that spending that kind of energy with such a dismal return on investment (15% efficiency is what the old steam locomotives would get!!!) will actually increase efficiency by 28%?

The only way to increase efficiency is to find a way to extract the combustion energy so that exhaust gasses will come down from let's say 600 Celsius to 200 degrees, which can only be done by severly modifying the engine's configuration (by condsiderably extending the stroke [and the weight] of the engine, a practical impossibility for cars)...

Sorry, but this is a pipedream! You'd be much better off using a fuel cell with hydrogen generated from hydropower, at least your efficiency levels would be closer to 70% than the dismal 20-30 that can be attained with internal combustion engines!!!

I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong. Where are the figures?