Stupid alignment adjustment question (1 Viewer)

[kcjaz]

So I pulled off my BP51 front struts last night so I can send them in for rebuild and I replaced them temporarily with the OEM struts. In the process I seem to have messed up the caster of the passenger front wheel and now has a rub on the rocker when turning right. I'm not sure which of the alignment cams to turn or which way to remedy this. The only parts I moved or loosened were the lower control arms and in my head, I would have had to mess with the upper arm to affect caster. I didn't mess with tie rod or anything on the upper arm. I don't need to have the alignment perfect here. The truck will sit for the next few months while its in the body shop fixing my last adventure. It just needs to be able to move so I can get it to the shop and so they can move it around the shop. I just need to move the wheel forward a bit to get it off the rocker. I'm sure I can just trial and error this until I get in the ball park but wanted to find some info to help get me started. Searched but didn't really find anything specific as "turn this can clockwise" to move the wheel forward.

 

[TeCKis300]

Am I understanding right that it's hitting the side step part of the wheel well?

Yes, this is likely caster and the LCA has just as much influence if not more than the UCA.

Hopefully this makes sense - on the LCA, there's two eccentric adjusters. For the forward and rear pivots of the lower arm. Trick is to move the front adjuster to pull the arm towards the centerline of the car. Move the rear adjuster to push the arm away from the centerline of the car. This will effectively move the tire forward in the wheel well.

This may help better visualize the adjustment you need to make

 

[kcjaz]

Was able to adjust caster to clear the rub. I e always heard “torque the suspension bolts with the truck on the ground.” This is really only applicable to bolts with rubber bushings right? The alignment cam bolts can be torqued with the truck in the air right?

 

[kcjaz]

So while I understand that the reason for torqueing retaining bolts with rubber bushings with them in the "neutral" position (i.e. on the ground at normal ride height), I don't understand how to really do that for the lower arm cam bolts.

With the truck in the air, it takes a far amount of force to move the cams and adjust the wheel alignment. Once in desired position, I have to put some torque on the bolts to keep it in position. It doesn't need all 207 ft-lbs but it does need more than finger tight.

The associated bushings appear to be the sleeved rubber type.

What I've done is just made my alignment adjustments and torqued it down enough to hold it in place and then I put the wheel back on and lowered the truck and torqued to final spec.

Also, the FSM shows the bushings as "non-reusable":

What would cause you to not reuse these? Surly they don't mean to replace these when you change struts/do alignment???

I did notice that when I had it all apart, the lower control arm didn't just fall down and rotate out of place. Even with the alignment nuts loose there was enough friction to hold the lower arm up at an angle. In the Youtube videos, the control arms seem to just fall out of the way.

 

[TeCKis300]

So while I understand that the reason for torqueing retaining bolts with rubber bushings with them in the "neutral" position (i.e. on the ground at normal ride height), I don't understand how to really do that for the lower arm cam bolts.

View attachment 3394854

With the truck in the air, it takes a far amount of force to move the cams and adjust the wheel alignment. Once in desired position, I have to put some torque on the bolts to keep it in position. It doesn't need all 207 ft-lbs but it does need more than finger tight.

The associated bushings appear to be the sleeved rubber type.

View attachment 3394855

What I've done is just made my alignment adjustments and torqued it down enough to hold it in place and then I put the wheel back on and lowered the truck and torqued to final spec.

Also, the FSM shows the bushings as "non-reusable":

View attachment 3394858

What would cause you to not reuse these? Surly they don't mean to replace these when you change struts/do alignment???

I did notice that when I had it all apart, the lower control arm didn't just fall down and rotate out of place. Even with the alignment nuts loose there was enough friction to hold the lower arm up at an angle. In the Youtube videos, the control arms seem to just fall out of the way.

I just did this with a buddies GX460 last night after BMC and fitting 34s.

Pro shops doing alignment have the advantage of working space under the truck. At home with the wheels on, especially with smaller tires and less lift, can be difficult to have enough working space. A hack that I sometimes resort to, assuming the truck is level on jack stands and wheels are off:

1. Use a floor jack, working one corner at a time lifting from the LCA
2. Jack enough to load up the suspension where it just lifts the car off that jack stand in that corner. This will practically be ride height for the suspension. Use caution to make sure the whole rig is still stable on the rest of the rack stands and is not putting some weird lateral force into the chassis.
3. Torque bushings

 

[bloc]

I drive mine onto ramps and squeeze under there to torque to spec. It is not easy, but I get it done. Any amount of lift over stock really helps.

But yes even the cam bolts must be torqued at ride height. Just as easily as the UCAs or others, you can clamp the inner sleeve in the dropped out LCA position then as soon as you put weight on it the rubber bushing is twisted.

 

[kcjaz]

I drive mine onto ramps and squeeze under there to torque to spec. It is not easy, but I get it done. Any amount of lift over stock really helps.

But yes even the cam bolts must be torqued at ride height. Just as easily as the UCAs or others, you can clamp the inner sleeve in the dropped out LCA position then as soon as you put weight on it the rubber bushing is twisted.

I was able to get to everything with it on the ground though I haven't yet tried the BA torque wrench which is pretty long so maybe I will have to use ramps.

The thing I don't really understand is why there seems to be resistance in adjusting the cam bolts when the tire is in the air. I can rotate the cam to where I want but it takes a lot of force and it simply goes back when I let go of the wrench. Some of this is probably due to KDSS link and shock bolt being tight which I can loosen again but it really feels like I'm fighting the LCA bushings as if they are not freely rotating on the bolt even though the nut is backed off and well loose.

 

[TeCKis300]

I was able to get to everything with it on the ground though I haven't yet tried the BA torque wrench which is pretty long so maybe I will have to use ramps.

The thing I don't really understand is why there seems to be resistance in adjusting the cam bolts when the tire is in the air. I can rotate the cam to where I want but it takes a lot of force and it simply goes back when I let go of the wrench. Some of this is probably due to KDSS link and shock bolt being tight which I can loosen again but it really feels like I'm fighting the LCA bushings as if they are not freely rotating on the bolt even though the nut is backed off and well loose.

It should spin as you would expect with little resistance once clamping force is released. It sounds to me like the inner sleeve is fused to the bolt so you are fighting against the bushing. It's common for high mileage 200-series to experience fusing due to corrosion. It gets so bad that some bolts won't release or slide out requiring cutting the bolts with a sawzall.

 

[bloc]

I was able to get to everything with it on the ground though I haven't yet tried the BA torque wrench which is pretty long so maybe I will have to use ramps.

The thing I don't really understand is why there seems to be resistance in adjusting the cam bolts when the tire is in the air. I can rotate the cam to where I want but it takes a lot of force and it simply goes back when I let go of the wrench. Some of this is probably due to KDSS link and shock bolt being tight which I can loosen again but it really feels like I'm fighting the LCA bushings as if they are not freely rotating on the bolt even though the nut is backed off and well loose.

Any corrosion at all?

There are a bunch of things going on. The main bolt & nut that you tighten. There is a sleeve outside that that ties the front and rear cams together. Then there is the inner sleeve of the bushing.

When you turn the cam the middle sleeve has to turn inside the bushing sleeve and if you have corrosion this can stick quite a bit. Even my rig living in Tennessee then Texas with a handful of ski trips had one bolt really give me trouble with my last alignment work.

 

[Bill92]

I had to put a torch on one of mine to get it to actually move due to the corrosion (4runner, but it works very similar). Also, keep the truck on the ground and just turn the wheel to one side for access to the cam bolt, then turn the other way to access the other cam bolt.

 

[kcjaz]

It should spin as you would expect with little resistance once clamping force is released. It sounds to me like the inner sleeve is fused to the bolt so you are fighting against the bushing. It's common for high mileage 200-series to experience fusing due to corrosion. It gets so bad that some bolts won't release or slide out requiring cutting the bolts with a sawzall.

maybe time to do a LCA refresh and replace bushings and bolts when I put the BP51s back on.

 

[kcjaz]

LCA bushing refresh looks like a bit of work. Not 100% sure this is for a 200 but it looks pretty close.

 

[bloc]

LCA bushing refresh looks like a bit of work. Not 100% sure this is for a 200 but it looks pretty close.

All that and you still have original lower ball joints.

Personally I’d just do the whole arm. Or remove the bolts and sleeves and treat with anti-seize to prevent things locking up in the first place. My rig has 195k miles and despite some minor cracks in the bushings the lower ball joints seem great… hard to justify whole new arms just for the cracks I have.

 

[kcjaz]

I’m starting to regret adding the BP51 rebuild project to the body repair project. I just realized that with the OEM struts installed I’m sitting on my Timbren bump stops. There is also no way to torque the bolts with the rig down on the bump stops. I’m going to find a set of ramps and give that a shot.

Edit: since it’s on the bump stop anyway, I jacked it up from the LCA and torqued it the rest of the way to 207 on the front but probably only got to 180 on the rear one. Close enough as it won’t really be driven.

 

[kcjaz]

A whole new OEM

All that and you still have original lower ball joints.

Personally I’d just do the whole arm. Or remove the bolts and sleeves and treat with anti-seize to prevent things locking up in the first place. My rig has 195k miles and despite some minor cracks in the bushings the lower ball joints seem great… hard to justify whole new arms just for the cracks I have.

A whole new LCA with new bushings and ball joint is $300. I agree, I think I’d replace the whole thing rather than just the bushings.

 

[bloc]

A whole new OEM


A whole new LCA with new bushings and ball joint is $300. I agree, I think I’d replace the whole thing rather than just the bushings.

That’s the move for sure, especially with some miles on the rig.

If corrosion was an issue I’d get new bolts and cam sleeves too. Note that they are different on the front and rear of the arm.. one has a traditional bolt & nut inserted through the cam assembly, the other has the bolt threading into one end of the cam assembly. Not sure why they are different but they are.

As I said I had one bolt locked pretty well to the cam sleeve, but not the bushing sleeve. I was able to hold backup on the cam nut and turn the bolt with a ton of torque to get it freed up. Then I covered in nickel based anti-seize and hopefully it won’t give me any more trouble.