Standardized comms (1 Viewer)

[SeanLX]

There's a chart on Midland's website that lists the standard GMRS channels since 2017 that will be getting more popular.

Why GMRS for Two-Way Radio Communication?

GMRS provides consumers more range through the 50W allowable power, repeater capabilities, and walkie talkie radio frequencies. Learn more about it here.

midlandusa.com

We're working on a Chirp (progaming software) file right now for anyone who wants to load that into a Baofeng. There will probably even be a few laptops at Relic Run to help with that.

Remember that the FCC has stepped up some enforcement on manufacturers and newer radios aren't as open as older ones. If you're buying new make sure they're GMRS labeled if you want to be safe and sure to be legal and compatible. Lots of new ham radios are locked to not transmit on GMRS and the other way around, some can be unlocked, some maybe not.

There's still discussion about how to best have compatibility with CLCCs radios and repeaters. Hoping to have that worked out and included in the Chirp file before Relic Run. There's definitely discussion and priority to keep compatibility with out of the box new GMRS radios going forward.

 

[izzyandsue]

has there been a decision on the specific frequencies that we would use?
Or is that still up in the air?

Traditionally, in events we have used 146.46 Mhz, no offset. I program it to my radios as ONSC Event. With GMRS you can only select channels, not frequencies, as the frequency is locked to a channel from factory.

 

[emorth]

146.46 MHz is an Amateur Radio (Ham) frequency. If someone doesn’t have a Ham license it is illegal for them to transmit on that frequency.

 

[izzyandsue]

Obviously, but that’s the frequency we use for HAM operators during our events.

 

[emorth]

Ok
What do you do if someone in the group isn’t a ham?

 

[JohnVee]

What do you do if someone in the group isn’t a ham?

Historically, we b!tch and moan and question the reasons for such a vague requirement as "working radio" when that requirement gives equal preference to all types and makes everybody feel that their own favorite radio is the one that should be used. Then we go about our day with only a few in the group being able to communicate.

That's my funny answer, but in practice we've always been pretty good about avoiding HAM for general use. Many of our HAMs are our hardcore trail guys who all ride together, so they might be using it. Most of the other HAMs seem to also be prepared in the other assorted ways that might be decided upon by a trail group. Also, there are the folks who will have an incompatible radio and are just fine with not having any clue what's being discussed on the trail.

 

[izzyandsue]

Ok
What do you do if someone in the group isn’t a ham?

Someone asked a question about what frequencies we use, the answer is 146.46 Mhz, I am not policing for HAM licenses. As a general class I expect other HAM operators following the rules, and my experience with our club is that those who use HAM are licensed.

 

[AndrewHadji]

ive gone to a handheld CB and have a mobile HAM + handheld HAM for when im out of the truck. Replace the mounted CB with GMRS mounted. I need to replace the firestik with a GMRS as im using a mag mounted

 

[SeanLX]

ive gone to a handheld CB and have a mobile HAM + handheld HAM for when im out of the truck. Replace the mounted CB with GMRS mounted. I need to replace the firestik with a GMRS as im using a mag mounted

I think you're headed the direction of a lot of people. Nice thing about the GMRS antennas is that they're smaller than CB or ham.

Which mobile ham are you using? (I'm thinking of changing mine up)
Did you get a ham license? It's good to see a few more in the club.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I think @emorth have come to a concensus for the standardized comms between clubs. More or less, we converged on the standard gmrs channels and repeater channels as shown in the attached pic. This corresponds to the clcc channels (they are just gmrs channels) programmed in their widely used Motorola radios. The Motorola users can print out a list of their clcc presets to the standard gmrs channels, so that we can talk together.

To be clear, ham bands are out of context of this proposal due to lack of adoption. Gmrs still requires a license per the fcc, but it's a quick online fee, not a test like ham. Good for your whole household.

Reading info on gmrs license:
Why Do I Need a GMRS License & How Do I Get It? - https://midlandusa.com/blogs/blog/why-do-i-need-a-gmrs-license-how-do-i-get-it

Fcc site to get a license:

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/licManager/login.jsp

So, for guys with baofengs or other radios that can be programmed with chirp, punch in these gmrs channels and program your radio, then bingo, done. Alternately you can just punch in the frequency, and since the offset is standard, that shouldn't need to be manually configured unless the setting was messed with before.

What do we think?

EDIT: I realize this is not the entire GMRS channel spectrum, but we're limited in the standardized (between clubs) plan by the CLCC motorola limit of 16 channels per radio. If you want, you can program in every GMRS band if you want, just label the GMRS channels 15-22R as above with a tag that indicates the CLCC channel number from the first column.

EDIT2: if you're also a ham operator, do whatever you want, but this is the standardized plan to make it easy for new people.

 

[weejub]

Free the Freeq's, bro!!

 

[Comet]

@GLTHFJ60 is the dedicated repeater option still in play for ONSC? @emorth I am still interested either way. Looking at the Midland 40 and 50 watt GMRS radios with the repeater built in? Or just cooperating with the repeater? I am guessing cooperating.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

@GLTHFJ60 is the dedicated repeater option still in play for ONSC? @emorth I am still interested either way. Looking at the Midland 40 and 50 watt GMRS radios with the repeater built in? Or just cooperating with the repeater? I am guessing cooperating.

Not fully up on my GMRS mobile tech, but in ham land, the "mobile repeater" is just a cross-band repeat or replay feature, not the same advantages. I think a dedicated repeater is still in play for ONSC, but I'm not ready to commit time to the research, procurement, install and config at this time.

Maybe later this year I'll have the bandwidth to take that on.

 

[emorth]

This is the chart that shows the common CLCC and GMRS freqs & channels along with the coded squelch for the Baofeng type of radios and the Midland "Blister Pack" type of radios. Same code, just different numbers. Like 6:00 PM and 1800 hours. The Baofeng tone/code is the actual standard industry code. The Midland code is their translation. How knows why?????

 

[emorth]

Here is a more complete chart.

 

[SFROMAN]

Clarification on my part-

I have been using the acronym MGRS for almost 22 years almost on a daily basis in reference to maps, navigation, airborne operations, and almost all other planning.

So my brain tends to think MGRS when I type or talk as opposed to GMRS, which is fairly new to me.

So just know, When I use the acronym MGRS, especially in a comms thread. I am most likely trying to say GMRS.

Now, if I am ever giving a navigation class, or map reading class chances are that if I use the acronym MGRS there is a high probability that I am referring to the military grid reference system and not the general mobil radio system.

I will try to go back to edit my posts to avoid any further confusion

 

[izzyandsue]

Clarification on my part-

I have been using the acronym MGRS for almost 22 years almost on a daily basis in reference to maps, navigation, airborne operations, and almost all other planning.

So my brain tends to think MGRS when I type or talk as opposed to GMRS, which is fairly new to me.

So just know, When I use the acronym MGRS, especially in a comms thread. I am most likely trying to say GMRS.

Now, if I am ever giving a navigation class, or map reading class chances are that if I use the acronym MGRS there is a high probability that I am referring to the military grid reference system and not the general mobil radio system.

I will try to go back to edit my posts to avoid any further confusion

Had to laugh, my brain just connected it all without skipping a beat. You were well understood.

 

[KliersLC]

Clarification on my part-

I have been using the acronym MGRS for almost 22 years almost on a daily basis in reference to maps, navigation, airborne operations, and almost all other planning.

So my brain tends to think MGRS when I type or talk as opposed to GMRS, which is fairly new to me.

So just know, When I use the acronym MGRS, especially in a comms thread. I am most likely trying to say GMRS.

Now, if I am ever giving a navigation class, or map reading class chances are that if I use the acronym MGRS there is a high probability that I am referring to the military grid reference system and not the general mobil radio system.

I will try to go back to edit my posts to avoid any further confusion

I chuckled as well, but completely understood what you were saying. Working at training command, we have the Navy/Marine team attempting to work together often--Marines refuse to use anything but MGRS, and ocean going sailors refuse to use anything but Lat/Long.

 

[SeanLX]

So after lots of discussion, a little testing with @GLTHFJ60 and @JohnVee , and a lot of help from @emorth I think we have a plan.

Simple version is ONSC will move from recommending you have a CB to GMRS just like a lot of other clubs and organizations starting at Relic Run 2022. Many of us will have ham radio to supplement/back up the GMRS but communication within the groups will be GMRS.

If you have an older FRS/GMRS handheld that should work fine. If you want to pick up a new radio Midland seems to have some really good options and be ready to go. Motorola and Baofeng/other Chinese radios (new GMRS models) should work too but may need codes turned off or something simple to hear each other.
Short version any GMRS radio should be good including/especially the new higher power mobile options. We're looking forward to testing range on those.

Older Baofeng radios can transmit on GMRS frequencies. There's an FCC type rule your breaking but it happens all the time.
I've attached a Chirp file if you have the programing cable and want to try it. .csc and a .dxf that needs to be renamed .img Website won't let me attach the correct file type.
If you have a Baofeng and no cable there will be a few of us with laptops at Relic Run that can fix you up.

CCLC Motorola radios have the GMRS channels programed in with a code/tone on by default. The chirp file includes those as CLCC 1, CLCC 2, etc. A Midland can talk to those just fine by turning on the code/tone in the chart from post #95. If I understand correctly the Motorolas can also turn off the code/tone with a button on the side and talk to all radios with no tone set.

Relic Run will be the first event trying GMRS and seeing how all the radios work together and what range we get so we'll look forward to seeing how it all goes.

 

[Hokie LX]

FYI for anyone shopping for a Midland. "INSTAGRAM10" is good for 10% off on their site. I've heard rumors of deeper discounts for signing up for certain events but worst case, 10% is better than retail!