SQOD Squad - Stupid Question Of the Day (15 Viewers)

[coleAK]

We need to know more

I posted on this thread 4-5 months ago it inquire if anyone had made a skid plate. My teen daughter ran out old 2004 MB e320 4matic into a parking block and destroyed the radiator, condenser, plastic. The lower front bumper parts and radiator mount were no longer available from Mercedes and I searched high and low from salvage yards. I was able to find the passenger side radiator mount that she destroyed, but no luck for any of the lower plastic of the front end. So I had this idea to make a pseudo front skid plate in order to protect the radiator from rocks. They get kicked up gravel and snow.I got the radiator, condenser, and all new hoses from Napa.

She did most of the work entirely herself with my direction. Asked for the skid plate instead of going through the process of teaching myself how to weld aluminum and buying all the equipment I decided to make a mock up out of cardboard, then drafted out on AutoCAD (a >25 year old version) And have a local metal shop make it for me.

 

[MCtree]

I posted on this thread 4-5 months ago it inquire if anyone had made a skid plate. My teen daughter ran out old 2004 MB e320 4matic into a parking block and destroyed the radiator, condenser, plastic. The lower front bumper parts and radiator mount were no longer available from Mercedes and I searched high and low from salvage yards. I was able to find the passenger side radiator mount that she destroyed, but no luck for any of the lower plastic of the front end. So I had this idea to make a pseudo front skid plate in order to protect the radiator from rocks. They get kicked up gravel and snow.I got the radiator, condenser, and all new hoses from Napa.

She did most of the work entirely herself with my direction. Asked for the skid plate instead of going through the process of teaching myself how to weld aluminum and buying all the equipment I decided to make a mock up out of cardboard, then drafted out on AutoCAD (a >25 year old version) And have a local metal shop make it for me.

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Wow. Well done, AK. This deserves its own thread. Nothing stupid to make it belong in this thread.

 

[MCtree]

Unlike this question:

Why did Toyota/Lexus create the LX700h overtrail instead of the LX600 overtrail?

Seems like the overlapping part of a ven-diagram with people who want a hybrid and also a triple-locked vehicle is pretty small.
Especially since the range isn’t increased.

 

[TeCKis300]

I posted on this thread 4-5 months ago it inquire if anyone had made a skid plate. My teen daughter ran out old 2004 MB e320 4matic into a parking block and destroyed the radiator, condenser, plastic. The lower front bumper parts and radiator mount were no longer available from Mercedes and I searched high and low from salvage yards. I was able to find the passenger side radiator mount that she destroyed, but no luck for any of the lower plastic of the front end. So I had this idea to make a pseudo front skid plate in order to protect the radiator from rocks. They get kicked up gravel and snow.I got the radiator, condenser, and all new hoses from Napa.

She did most of the work entirely herself with my direction. Asked for the skid plate instead of going through the process of teaching myself how to weld aluminum and buying all the equipment I decided to make a mock up out of cardboard, then drafted out on AutoCAD (a >25 year old version) And have a local metal shop make it for me.

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Not sure how hot it gets in AK, you may want to consider putting some reliefs in that skid or you'll really be choking airflow to the cooling system.

Unlike this question:

Why did Toyota/Lexus create the LX700h overtrail instead of the LX600 overtrail?

Seems like the overlapping part of a ven-diagram with people who want a hybrid and also a triple-locked vehicle is pretty small.
Especially since the range isn’t increased.

Could ask the same question of these new fangled Land Cruisers which only come in hybrid?

 

[MCtree]

Could ask the same question of these new fangled Land Cruisers which only come in hybrid?

Good point/question.
It’s odd since the hybrid only seems to help with acceleration and doesn’t add to the range. So why link off-road capability with a better 0-60 time?

 

[bloc]

Good point/question.
It’s odd since the hybrid only seems to help with acceleration and doesn’t add to the range. So why link off-road capability with a better 0-60 time?

To hide an anemic engine being in a $70k SUV.

 

[TeCKis300]

Good point/question.
It’s odd since the hybrid only seems to help with acceleration and doesn’t add to the range. So why link off-road capability with a better 0-60 time?

I agree Toyota is missing the mark when it comes to range. The more efficient drivetrain doesn't get the benefit of more range as Toyota is consistently down sizing the fuel tank when they add hybrid (weight? packaging?) LX600 has a 21.1gal tank versus L700h at 18gal.

I get that the 300-series focused more on adding lightness, but man, range is so important to an adventure vehicle. At least a jerry can goes farther on a hybrid?

 

[elcie200]

Todays SQOD. 2013 LC. I want to run a cat6 cable from the a-pillar to the sunglass holder area (the console between the sun visors) for a ham radio install.

Is there anything to be aware of in that area? Do I need to drop the headliner in the front?

I tried fishing the cable from the console toward the a-pillar but ran into something. I want to make sure I’m not about to hit a sunroof drain tube, airbag part etc (don’t think the obstruction is airbag related)

I was trying to find a picture of that area (over the passenger sun visor) with the headliner removed, but haven’t found one yet.

Just following up here.
- really good instructions for removing (all of the) headlining parts. Toyota Land Cruiser: Roof headlining - Body Mechanical - https://www.tlacruiser.com/roof_headlining-305.html
- see steps 22, 23, 27

After that, the headliner pulled down in the front, and it was easy to feed the wire to the dome light area.

Removed sunglass holder, drilled a hole for the cable, mounted everything up.

 

[coleAK]

Not sure how hot it gets in AK, you may want to consider putting some reliefs in that skid or you'll really be choking airflow to the cooling system.



Could ask the same question of these new fangled Land Cruisers which only come in hybrid?

I thought about holes. But where I live the average high in July which our hottest month of the year is only 64F. When it hits 70F the few times a summer we all start to prepare for the apocalypse, in the rare event it hits 80F (probably once every 5-10 years ) we are sure the lower 48 was nuked and vaporized and we are experiencing some odd greenhouse heat effect.

I came to the conclusion that holes would be more of an entry point for rocks to pin hole the radiator then needed for cooling. There is plenty of space between the radiator and plate and the plate barely extends past the radiator. But then again it hasn’t been above 5F here since I installed it. If it comes to it this summer and the car heats up I’ll add some holes.

Lights arrived today so I have a project for this weekend.

 

[arun1]

I agree Toyota is missing the mark when it comes to range. The more efficient drivetrain doesn't get the benefit of more range as Toyota is consistently down sizing the fuel tank when they add hybrid (weight? packaging?) LX600 has a 21.1gal tank versus L700h at 18gal.

I get that the 300-series focused more on adding lightness, but man, range is so important to an adventure vehicle. At least a jerry can goes farther on a hybrid?

100% agree Toyota is missing the mark here and potentially for lot of Adventure/hunting oriented customers. I currently have 5thgen 4runner with 194k miles on it I am the original owner. I also have 2016 LC200 lifted. I was really excited when they announced the LC250 and got my self on the list as a replacement for my 4runner. Which primarily serves as a daily driver and for all my Upland Bird hunting trips and fly fishing. I have 2 large kennels almost permanently installed in the 4runner and still have space on top for soft items via a shelf. When i asked my Toyota dealer, if i can put kennels over the large battery hump in the rear compartment of LC250 (tight fit and no space over it) and does that get very hot or pose any danger to my dogs? no one can answer that question with any certainty. I do see LC250 has AC vents in the rear compartment area on the bottom, which Toyota never had on any of their previous SUVs tells me that the batteries might get hot in summer when temps are over 100. LC250 looks beautiful from outside and on paper almost the same size as as LC200, but when i test drove it, it seems tighter and less space inside than my 4runner. That big 5 inch battery hump on LC250 and now for the LX700 is a huge disappointment. on top of that they have a smaller gas tank. this is opposite to lot of adventure and overland folks I don't know what they were thinking?

 

[bloc]

I agree Toyota is missing the mark when it comes to range. The more efficient drivetrain doesn't get the benefit of more range as Toyota is consistently down sizing the fuel tank when they add hybrid (weight? packaging?) LX600 has a 21.1gal tank versus L700h at 18gal.

I get that the 300-series focused more on adding lightness, but man, range is so important to an adventure vehicle. At least a jerry can goes farther on a hybrid?

Toyota's head engineer of the Tundra update addressed this specifically in an in-depth video explaining their design decisions. He said that survey after survey showed that the vast majority of people willing to buy these vehicles new just don't want to sit in them for more than 3-4 hours at a time on trips. I'm sure curb weight and packaging are factors too, but most of their (new car, aka the ones that matter) customers just aren't asking for it.

I suspect evaporative emissions are an issue as well.. if a tank is larger but not taller (so it doesn't hang lower) you now have more surface area.. which means more evap emissions, even below the boiling point.

 

[cruiserdan]

I suspect evaporative emissions are an issue as well.. if a tank is larger but not taller (so it doesn't hang lower) you now have more surface area.. which means more evap emissions, even below the boiling point.

My money is on this as the primary motivator. Emissions are way high on the priority list. The less fuel on board, the less vapor to deal with.

 

[rexington14]

the vast majority of people willing to buy these vehicles new just don't want to sit in them for more than 3-4 hours at a time on trips.

Why would you? Driving means sitting, and sitting for extended periods of time isn't good for anyone.

 

[MCtree]

Why would you? Driving means sitting, and sitting for extended periods of time isn't good for anyone.

Sometimes, when you are in the back country, there aren’t gas stations available to fill up.

And yeah, we only need gas tanks that hold out as long as our bladders do… but again, in lots of America (and Canada) there are a lot more places to pee than there are gas stations.

When I upgraded from the GX 460 to the LC, I found it really annoying how often I needed to stop for gas in a day. (Until I had the LRA installed)

But there is something wrong with those surveys if they think that people want a triple locked hybrid.

 

[2021 LC200]

My money is on this as the primary motivator. Emissions are way high on the priority list. The less fuel on board, the less vapor to deal with.

Interesting thought however I have a different view;

Fuel evaporation amount per gallon is driven by pressure and temperature and the way you received it from the gas station or if you wish how it was processed at the refinery. I therefore see the same amount of vapor for certain pressure and temperature coming of a gallon, whether small or big tank.

Having said that insulation from heat sources will help. Maybe a smaller tank achieves that with say greater distance to the exhaust. I would expect though heat shields are more effective.

I do expect a smaller tank with fuel being pumped to the engines room and part returned heats up more than a bigger tank.

Then there is cooling by driving air.

My main point is that p and T are causing gasoline to flash off lighter ends and whether a tank is big or has a biggger area has little to do with that. Then again points mentioned above may swing the choice Mr T made. I think it is more about trying to keep total vehicle weight and space to place components in check and that in the US probably due to safety regs and NHTSA tests and perhaps litigation, we do not get the aux tank behind the rear axle.

 

[OregonLC]

...survey after survey showed that the vast majority of people willing to buy these vehicles new just don't want to sit in them for more than 3-4 hours at a time on trips...

Well, Toyota, the majority don't see trails either, but they still come with a locking center diff, ATRAC, etc.

The 3-4 hours is tone deaf to the promoted use case. I don't particularly care about the need to sit in a vehicle for more than four hours at a time. What I do care about is being four hours out and not near a gas station. This can limit your usable offroad range to somewhere in the mid 100 miles. 25 gallons can fit in a 112" wheelbase.

 

[TeCKis300]

Toyota's head engineer of the Tundra update addressed this specifically in an in-depth video explaining their design decisions. He said that survey after survey showed that the vast majority of people willing to buy these vehicles new just don't want to sit in them for more than 3-4 hours at a time on trips. I'm sure curb weight and packaging are factors too, but most of their (new car, aka the ones that matter) customers just aren't asking for it.

I suspect evaporative emissions are an issue as well.. if a tank is larger but not taller (so it doesn't hang lower) you now have more surface area.. which means more evap emissions, even below the boiling point.

Can't disagree and there's truth that these vehicles are spec'd for new prospective buyers. That's not necessarily us specifically. They're starting to lean into it with more enthusiast focused trims, cautiously, as mother Toyota does. Fuel range doesn't usually come up in the trade space to new buyers whereas shiny things like lockers does.

Part of it is self inflicted as stock vehicles will have solid range. It's when we enthusiasts get ahold of them and put large tires, roof racks, putting them to work, that range becomes a more pointed issue.

The F150 Raptor has a great large tank. So do Tundras as an option.

Overland travel can really benefit from longer range as it's not just about how long the haul is between stops, but getting deep into the backcountry away from civilization. Obviously mother Toyota understands that as they offer configurations to support that in Australia and the Outback. Just want some more of that goodness here.

 

[LX Cruiser]

Can't disagree and there's truth that these vehicles are spec'd for new prospective buyers. That's not necessarily us specifically. They're starting to lean into it with more enthusiast focused trims, cautiously, as mother Toyota does. Fuel range doesn't usually come up in the trade space to new buyers whereas shiny things like lockers does.

Part of it is self inflicted as stock vehicles will have solid range. It's when we enthusiasts get ahold of them and put large tires, roof racks, putting them to work, that range becomes a more pointed issue.

The F150 Raptor has a great large tank. So do Tundras as an option.

Overland travel can really benefit from longer range as it's not just about how long the haul is between stops, but getting deep into the backcountry away from civilization. Obviously mother Toyota understands that as they offer configurations to support that in Australia and the Outback. Just want some more of that goodness here.

In designing the new Tundra, Toyota went after the median American truck buyer, whose primary concerns are fuel economy, comfort, and tech (a giant screen sticking up out of the dash).

Every single thing I love about my 2nd gen Tundra, they went the opposite direction. The new truck is longer, lower, less articulation, worse visibility, worse angles, absolutely massive turn radius (the 2nd gen still reigns as best in the segment), and harder to work on yourself. It actually has different length CV axles up front and a very narrow midsection of the frame (worse for sliders).

At least they slapped a 1" lift kit with Fox shocks on the TRD Pro along with a locker (must be in 4Low to activate lol) and crawl control.

I absolutely agree: would love to see the Hilux, stripped down 300, and the 79 series available for the American market.

 

[OregonLC]

It actually has different length CV axles up front and a very narrow midsection of the frame (worse for sliders).

It has asymmetric CVs? Wow.

Is the frame width a trickledown of TNGA where a single architecture is purposed for a variety of vehicles? Jack of all trades, master of none?

 

[bloc]

…in the US probably due to safety regs and NHTSA tests and perhaps litigation, we do not get the aux tank behind the rear axle.

100% a factor. I actually just discovered that on the 300-series the sub tank is now on the other side of the driveshaft from the main, instead of behind the axle as in the 200.

But don’t discount the lengths they’ll go to for even incremental reductions in emissions. More surface area means more vapor production below boiling point, more volume increases it above that point.

As for smaller tank increasing boiling from heat return, it appears Toyota got rid of fuel return to the tank with the move to direct injection. Both the 22 tundra and 300-series diagrams show that change, once I thought to go look.