Sporadic no start issue maybe solved

[Godwin]

I've been trying correct a no-start condition with our '97 but it's been very sporadic. At times it seemed to be due to loose battery terminal. Recently it occurred and I replaced the fusible link, which was likely original, at that seemed to be the fix. But it wasn't. Since this Cruiser is 24 years old with almost 350,000 on parts I decided to replace some of the potential components that may be contributing, one being the ignition switch. Fusible link replaced, junction box replaced, next up was the ignition switch.

When the no-start state would appear turning the key had no effect, nor did moving the shifter from P to N. This weekend I pulled the dash apart and replaced the ignition switch. As part of this I also did a temporary gauge cluster swap. I have a spare gauge cluster from a'96 and I popped it in to see what lights work. With the '96 cluster installed, and after the ignition switch swap the Cruiser would start. I pulled the '96 cluster, reinstalled the original '97 cluster and the no-start state was back. Why?

Reswap clusters, Cruiser starts. More??? So, this particular issue appeared to be connected with the original cluster.

Since the dash was apart I decided to pull the security system. Several threads were helpful with that. As well as pulling the security system I cleaned out a lot old disconnected stereo wiring which I don't think contributed to the no-start issue. Once the security system had been yanked, and with the original cluster installed the Cruiser fired right up.

At this point I'm thinking the no-start issue was due to a flaky security system. If not it's at least one more potential failure point removed.

 

[Old Nick]

I've been trying correct a no-start condition with our '97 but it's been very sporadic. At times it seemed to be due to loose battery terminal. Recently it occurred and I replaced the fusible link, which was likely original, at that seemed to be the fix. But it wasn't. Since this Cruiser is 24 years old with almost 350,000 on parts I decided to replace some of the potential components that may be contributing, one being the ignition switch. Fusible link replaced, junction box replaced, next up was the ignition switch.

When the no-start state would appear turning the key had no effect, nor did moving the shifter from P to N. This weekend I pulled the dash apart and replaced the ignition switch. As part of this I also did a temporary gauge cluster swap. I have a spare gauge cluster from a'96 and I popped it in to see what lights work. With the '96 cluster installed, and after the ignition switch swap the Cruiser would start. I pulled the '96 cluster, reinstalled the original '97 cluster and the no-start state was back. Why?

Reswap clusters, Cruiser starts. More??? So, this particular issue appeared to be connected with the original cluster.

Since the dash was apart I decided to pull the security system. Several threads were helpful with that. As well as pulling the security system I cleaned out a lot old disconnected stereo wiring which I don't think contributed to the no-start issue. Once the security system had been yanked, and with the original cluster installed the Cruiser fired right up.

At this point I'm thinking the no-start issue was due to a flaky security system. If not it's at least one more potential failure point removed.

View attachment 3721656

Hoping that you've got it sorted out. Very helpful to read this.

Before I tore into and started building my wife's 80 (she sends her regards by the way), it had the exact same symptoms. Started strong most of the time, and then, nothing when I turned it over. Then, it would start again. I need to swap out the fusible link, and will likely pull the security system second.

 

[Godwin]

Hoping that you've got it sorted out. Very helpful to read this.

Before I tore into and started building my wife's 80 (she sends her regards by the way), it had the exact same symptoms. Started strong most of the time, and then, nothing when I turned it over. Then, it would start again. I need to swap out the fusible link, and will likely pull the security system second.

When it wouldn't start, it was dead. Turning the key did nothing. There was no electrical excitation going to the starter.

 

[Old Nick]

When it wouldn't start, it was dead. Turning the key did nothing. There was no electrical excitation going to the starter.

Same here. No turn over, no nothing. I got the dash chime and that was it.

Edit: one detail I forgot to mention. When I unplugged the security (under the driver's seat), the engine would crank but not start. Plugged it back in... nothing. Then, a short while later it would start.

 

[Godwin]

Since I was doing a lot of digging around in the electrical system in driver side I checked all the systems once I had finished. Everything works except the windows, none of the windows are operable and I think I cut an important wire. Fuses look good, door locks work. I am weak with tracing out wiring and sorting out electrical issues.

 

[Godwin]

Dead window action corrected with connection of a couple of plugs. Remove the dead pedal and kick panel you have access to a small cubby hole with wiring. Once the security wiring was removed there were 3 plugs in this spot, two matched up and simply connecting these restored window function.

 

[mtquinn]

Godwin,
Thank you for troubleshooting this issue. Our 97 LC also had an intermittent "no start" issue exactly, as you described. It always happened when the engine was hot. The last time was after our first gas stop while driving the vehicle from FL to Land Crusier Heaven in Maryland (June 2024). We were able to restart the car by crawling underneath and striking the starter. Did this as when we first encountered the "no start" in 2000, the AAA tech tried this and she started right up. He said this issue was likely a flat spot in the starter coil? Weird, right. It took 15 years until we encountered "no start" again.

I was never really happy with the flat spot explanation and couldn't find an applicable ih8mud thread until yours. Think I'll forward your troubleshooting results to Land Cruiser Heaven on Monday as our "refreshed" LC should be ready to come home to Florida at the beginning of October.

 

[Godwin]

Godwin,
Thank you for troubleshooting this issue. Our 97 LC also had an intermittent "no start" issue exactly, as you described. It always happened when the engine was hot. The last time was after our first gas stop while driving the vehicle from FL to Land Crusier Heaven in Maryland (June 2024). We were able to restart the car by crawling underneath and striking the starter. Did this as when we first encountered the "no start" in 2000, the AAA tech tried this and she started right up. He said this issue was likely a flat spot in the starter coil? Weird, right. It took 15 years until we encountered "no start" again.

I was never really happy with the flat spot explanation and couldn't find an applicable ih8mud thread until yours. Think I'll forward your troubleshooting results to Land Cruiser Heaven on Monday as our "refreshed" LC should be ready to come home to Florida at the beginning of October.

Three weeks of regular driving the 80 and the no-start issue has not resurfaced. Guess removing the security system has improved the flaky starting, will take 100s, or 1000s, of starts to have absolute confidence that pulling the security system was the root of the problem.

 

[Malleus]

Excising the security system is always my first job, after thorough cleaning, when I buy a new 80. Those things are a curse.

Pay close attention to that little pocket behind the kickpanel, where the harness joining connectors are tucked away. That pocket it the well Toyota intended to fill up when the sunroof drains send water from the roof down to the rocker panels. There is a lip, about an inch high, at the rear of that pocket, that water has to get over in order to get into the rocker panel and then to the pinch drains.

The presence of that lip means that any water that drains from the sunroof pan, through the drain tubes, which does not flow over the lip, will stay there until it evaporates. The only way to drain it is to remove one of the two body bolts in the rear trailing edge of the front fender. This will, unfortunately, not drain the pocket entirely, because the bolts screw into weldnuts, which are welded to the floor of that pocket. So the height of the weldnut determines how much water will eventually remain to evaporate (about 3./16").

This is why I replaced the front sunroof drain tubes in my 80 with rear tubes, which are long enough to reach from the sunroof pan to through the pocket floor and out. This required losing one of the weldnuts and bolts, but I think one bolt is enough, considering Toyota stuck another one at the bottom of the fender, on the firewall.

 

[Godwin]

I'll add one more observation regarding the removal of the security system that may confer a benefit. Again, negative unconfirmed observation. Prior to removal cruise control was flaky. Sometimes it would work, sometimes not, sometimes it would work but not following a speed reset. Because of the flakiness I quit using it. Since the removal of the security system each time that I've engaged cruise control it has operated as expected, consistent and without unexpectedly shutting down or failing to engage.

 

[Malleus]

I've had this happen on quite a few of the 80s I've worked on, before I removed the RS3000. That thing is truly a curse.

 

[60wag]

I wanted to retain the key fob door lock function so I kept the RS3000 in place but bypassed the starter interupt circuit. This involves unplugging two wiring connectors behind the ignition switch, and plugging the two factory connectors back together. (Sort of like bypassing the OE external audio amp). I have had zero no-crank events since the bypass. If you wanted to kept the full circuit intact, there is probably a relay in there that could be cleaned or replaced.

 

[rdcnj]

I'll add one more observation regarding the removal of the security system that may confer a benefit. Again, negative unconfirmed observation. Prior to removal cruise control was flaky. Sometimes it would work, sometimes not, sometimes it would work but not following a speed reset. Because of the flakiness I quit using it. Since the removal of the security system each time that I've engaged cruise control it has operated as expected, consistent and without unexpectedly shutting down or failing to engage.

Pretty interesting data, especially considering my Cruise control does something similar to this.

Kinda works when it feels like it.

 

[jht3]

i suspect your no-start issue was probably due to a worn out ignition switch. at least i hope b/c i'm in a similar situation

i've replaced my fusible link, all large battery cables, rebuilt the starter, removed the TVSS (predecessor to the RS3000), and have had VERY intermittent no starts persist

when it is happening, turning the key does nothing. no clicks, etc. turning the key repeatedly will eventually trigger the starter. cruise control always works....when i use it which is rarely.

new ignition switch is waiting for me to get around to installing it. and a compustar keyless/remote start unit.

 

[banjo1981]

I wanted to retain the key fob door lock function so I kept the RS3000 in place but bypassed the starter interupt circuit. This involves unplugging two wiring connectors behind the ignition switch, and plugging the two factory connectors back together. (Sort of like bypassing the OE external audio amp). I have had zero no-crank events since the bypass. If you wanted to kept the full circuit intact, there is probably a relay in there that could be cleaned or replaced.

I may message you about this at some point. I like the keyless entry, but not the no/slow start symptom.

 

[taylort232]

i suspect your no-start issue was probably due to a worn out ignition switch. at least i hope b/c i'm in a similar situation

i've replaced my fusible link, all large battery cables, rebuilt the starter, removed the TVSS (predecessor to the RS3000), and have had VERY intermittent no starts persist

when it is happening, turning the key does nothing. no clicks, etc. turning the key repeatedly will eventually trigger the starter. cruise control always works....when i use it which is rarely.

new ignition switch is waiting for me to get around to installing it. and a compustar keyless/remote start unit.

Did you solve this?

 

[jht3]

Did you solve this?

nope, new ignition switch is still sitting on my workbench. haven't had a no start since my wife drove it back in june? pulling the dash apart...again...has dropped down the priority list

i have noticed my radio will very intermittently not turn on. tapping the CIG fuse brings it brings it back to life. so i think i have a loose female contact in that fuse box, like i previously did with the ECU-B fuse. none of this is related to the ignition switch, but more fun electrical troubleshooting!

 

[Malleus]

Failing ignition switches are almost always due to the wear in the plug at the bottom of the keyhole. It's a small cylinder of babbitt that gets a dimple in it over time. It's mean to push the switch against the spring to make the electrical connection.

The solution is one of three:
1). replace the lock cylinder;
2). have a locksmith cut your keys so that they are a millimeter longer below the last bitting; this will force the babitt to move when the key is inserted;
3). replace the babbitt with a new piece; Toyota doesn't sell this, but you can get it from a good locksmith.

 

[taylort232]

Failing ignition switches are almost always due to the wear in the plug at the bottom of the keyhole. It's a small cylinder of babbitt that gets a dimple in it over time. It's mean to push the switch against the spring to make the electrical connection.

The solution is one of three:
1). replace the lock cylinder;
2). have a locksmith cut your keys so that they are a millimeter longer below the last bitting; this will force the babitt to move when the key is inserted;
3). replace the babbitt with a new piece; Toyota doesn't sell this, but you can get it from a good locksmith.

For this failure you describe, do the lights in the dash light up as normal through the process? Or does it not show as if it’s cranking

 

[Malleus]

It's as if the key isn't fully inserted in the keyhole, because it isn't.