Spindle and upper trunion damage (1 Viewer)

[ppc]

The markings in the tulip look minimal to me and nothing I would consider replacing. The fact you can only feel the marks in the tulip and not the mating surfaces only points to something not in need of replacement. Based upon your pictures the chips don't appear to be in an area where the balls contact. I'd dare say that most birfields in similar condition will run for many more miles.

 

[-Spike-]

Well poop, my evening is ending on a sour note. My inexperienced eye tells me I need two new birfs. Both have scoring on the cage, the insert and the inside of the tulip. I can feel the ones in the tulip. Can’t feel anything with my fingernail anywhere else. Worse there are chips missing on some of the short sides of the windows in the cages. :sad:

I wouldn't run those birfs. The chipping is likely from the balls banging around. Based on the scoring, I'll bet the cages were hard to move in the bell. I saw the same thing in one of my birfs that was low on grease and clicking badly. I found this kit that replaces almost everything for a very reasonable price. DHL delivery was also very reasonable, and supposedly under a week. IIRC the delivered price for all that stuff was less $$ than the best price I could find in the US for just the two birfs. Note the Koyo bearings in the pic. They have other interesting stuff on the site, such as 555 steering rod ends and a good looking cheap rear bearing locknut tool. Keep in mind the quoted prices are in aussie bucks, US numbers are lower still. No idea if it's good quality, but the advice I was given is that there aren't that many places manufacturing birfs for these trucks, likely all coming from the same place, so if you're going aftermarket anyway, don't sweat the name on the box much. I tried to order that kit but was stymied by their method of CC owner verification- they refund a small amount of the price to your CC, you have to tell them how much the refund is for before they ship. The refund never showed on my card, so they cancelled the order. I then ran low on funds, so haven't re-ordered, just put in my spare birf for the time being.

 

[GeoRoss]

I wouldn't run those birfs. The chipping is likely from the balls banging around. Based on the scoring, I'll bet the cages were hard to move in the bell. I saw the same thing in one of my birfs that was low on grease and clicking badly. I found this kit that replaces almost everything for a very reasonable price. DHL delivery was also very reasonable, and supposedly under a week. IIRC the delivered price for all that stuff was less $$ than the best price I could find in the US for just the two birfs. Note the Koyo bearings in the pic. They have other interesting stuff on the site, such as 555 steering rod ends and a good looking cheap rear bearing locknut tool. Keep in mind the quoted prices are in aussie bucks, US numbers are lower still. No idea if it's good quality, but the advice I was given is that there aren't that many places manufacturing birfs for these trucks, likely all coming from the same place, so if you're going aftermarket anyway, don't sweat the name on the box much. I tried to order that kit but was stymied by their method of CC owner verification- they refund a small amount of the price to your CC, you have to tell them how much the refund is for before they ship. The refund never showed on my card, so they cancelled the order. I then ran low on funds, so haven't re-ordered, just put in my spare birf for the time being.

Thanks Spike, they were hard to move.

I'm still wondering what happened here, but I'm no detective and a worse mechanic. I'll send them an email this weekend. I'll call @cruiseroutfit on Monday too. While I'm not in a rush, I was really hoping to have this done this weekend but that ain't going to happen. I guess my date with phosphoric acid and rattle cans can be more diligent.

 

[GeoRoss]

And look what just arrived. Thanks Kurt.

Too bad it has to sit in the box a little while longer.

 

[cahill]

What did you find out about the birfs?

 

[GeoRoss]

What did you find out about the birfs?

Sadly I've been too swamped to actually call them today. Tomorrow for sure.

 

[GeoRoss]

Talked to the folks at CruiserOutfitters and ordered up some of their regular Nitro replacement birfs with the ABS ring. Ouch, but could have been worse. I needed new drive flanges with these birfs, but not a huge deal.

This project has become more than I was expecting.

Now back to cleaning. I've almost got everything ready for paint. I'm not trying to make it a show truck, but just being thorough where I can. I chased all threads and then I etched the paint with phosphoric acid and converted all the minor rust overnight. I then scrubbed in TSP and rinsed with a garden hose. I may not have done a good job at this step in two ways. I don't think I rinsed things as well as I should have. I have a white haze on some places on different parts. The second mistake was after rinsing I didn't immediately dry and rinse with acetone. I have different levels of flash rust on almost every machined surface. I thought I was being efficient.

I picked up some 3M synthetic steel wool of various grits and I'll just polish it all off. I have some paint to remove from some of those surfaces anyway so no big deal. My time is the only cost.

The part where my inexperience shows on these things is how clean the mating surfaces need to be. There is some staining that I couldn't get rid of with a kitchen style green scotch brite pad and I can't feel with a fingernail. My brain keeps telling me it isn't a problem. My OCD "what if" side can't stand it.

 

[MoCoNative]

Is there really an advantage to putting the brass bushings back in?

I've got three cruisers with the solid axles, the brass does wear, maybe they are worn out, but I keep running them. Obviously the 80 is more important over a part time rig because it spins all the time. Seems Toyota went to the needle bearing for a reason. I think it is a great idea, especially on an 80, the area is basically sealed with grease, the needle bearing should last almost forever, definitely as long as the brass bushing. My T100 has the needle bearing on the back side of the spindles, seems to be doing just fine, also had the CV shafts turning in it all the time before I put hubs on it. It worries me more, all that keeps the crap out is the seal behind it, and it is not easily serviced like an 80.

I'm going to be doing all new bearings (both axles) and front spindles on my 80, trying to track down an erradic brake shimmy, next will be more brake part swapping but I know I have ridges on the spindles. Rears will be the real problem, I'm hoping new bearings help, but they may not.

What mating surface are you worried about? The spindle goes on with a gasket, I always coat it with some RTV silicone, the rust staining I think you are talking about and any irregularities will be negated with the gasket material and proper bolt torque. Even on the trunnion caps, unless it is heavy, flaky or pitted rust spots, the staining does not affect it much, use your steel wool, maybe drag the file over them carefully but you should be good.

 

[GeoRoss]

Is there really an advantage to putting the brass bushings back in?

I've got three cruisers with the solid axles, the brass does wear, maybe they are worn out, but I keep running them. Obviously the 80 is more important over a part time rig because it spins all the time. Seems Toyota went to the needle bearing for a reason. I think it is a great idea, especially on an 80, the area is basically sealed with grease, the needle bearing should last almost forever, definitely as long as the brass bushing. My T100 has the needle bearing on the back side of the spindles, seems to be doing just fine, also had the CV shafts turning in it all the time before I put hubs on it. It worries me more, all that keeps the crap out is the seal behind it, and it is not easily serviced like an 80.

I'm going to be doing all new bearings (both axles) and front spindles on my 80, trying to track down an erradic brake shimmy, next will be more brake part swapping but I know I have ridges on the spindles. Rears will be the real problem, I'm hoping new bearings help, but they may not.

What mating surface are you worried about? The spindle goes on with a gasket, I always coat it with some RTV silicone, the rust staining I think you are talking about and any irregularities will be negated with the gasket material and proper bolt torque. Even on the trunnion caps, unless it is heavy, flaky or pitted rust spots, the staining does not affect it much, use your steel wool, maybe drag the file over them carefully but you should be good.

Why go with a solid bushing versus the spindle bearing in a spindle.

I was going through the stages of grief over destroying my spindles due to neglect which started with denial then followed by anger whereby I found acceptance and landed on research. This was followed by me reaching for my wallet. Since the facts show I am not the most maintenance proactive Land Cruiser owner, the most robust solution is needed. I found several posts from @Tools R Us on this topic. His arguments that a solid bushing is more resistant to catastrophic failure due to poor maintenance resonated with me. I guess I don’t trust myself.

The whole reason for this saga is I’m chasing down a death wobble that begins with moderate braking at over 40mph. At speeds slower than 10mph I can feel the rotational extra grab of a place on my disc(s). Even if the death wobble isn’t due to the brakes, clearly something is wrong. This discs have around 80k on them have been turned once.

The only positive surprise I’ve had is my axle seals where not leaking based on the grease looking pretty intact. The ugly knuckle leaks I have are due to poor sealing of the steering arm to the knuckle and the wiper. This is a guess. Looking at how manhandled these surfaces are supports my guess.

I’m worried about all the mating surfaces, but mostly those related to the trunion bearings. This is why I’m being a little extra and unnecessarily paranoid. When you don’t have experience and know enough to be dangerous, uncertainty ensues.

 

[RFB]

Ha, I just posted the same. We are happy to do it. We've got a puller we modified to tug out that inner bearing.

View attachment 1939097

So full length bushing is preferable over bush/roller? kurt do you have a set in stock? I just did ALL this yesterday

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So full length bushing is preferable over bush/roller? kurt do you have a set in stock? I just did ALL this yesterday

See note above for the reason some prefer the full bushing vs the bushing/bearing combo. We have them in stock as of this minute

 

[MoCoNative]

My T100 has 261K miles, front shafts have spun in the needle bearing for probably 2/3 of those miles till I put hubs on it and unlock them for the 5 months of summer we have here. I have smeared some grease in them two times now in the last 11 years and 140K miles of service. On the IFS settup you can't really get them clean so I have just wiped them really good. I assume most the IFS trucks were this way, I don't hear of failure there very often. I just can't see a needle bearing with grease and gunk next to it ever going dry, even with lack of maintenance. I will probably be replacing my pickups spindles though, because of wear, despite good packing intervals and good grease I just can't get the preload to stay. I put new wheel bearings in, but the wear on the spindle was there when I bought the truck at 118K, and it had been serviced by Toyota. I have a pull that I can't get out, so I'm going to throw more parts at it.

My 80 is the same way, random death wobble during mid speed braking, does not always do it. Rotors don't act warped, fairly new, replaced the rear calipers, still doing it. New tie rod ends, retightened the front wheel bearings, one was loose, felt good but suddenly came back, it is very frustrating. My pedal also sinks and just feels spongy. I have bled the crap out of the system. Next project this spring is wheel bearings all around, new front spindles, replace or rebuild front calipers and new master. If it still sucks after that I guess it is going off a cliff. I'm hoping new bearings on the back will tighten up. The ones in there are the originals, never serviced in 130K miles and they were shot, but I had to slap it back together. I knew they would keep turning, and I can't feel any looseness back there, but I had to just tighten the crap out of one nut to even get close to the FSM specs for preload. Not sure what to do with the rear spindles, they are worn too, found some info on dimpling the surface with a punch to make up the gap. Maybe a few dimples on the bottom surface will do the trick.

I know now a worn spindle just can't be tolerated. The spindles on my 250K mile FJ60 are worn too, passenger more than driver. Passenger side consistently loosens over time and pulls to the right. Even with new bearings they would not hold, as I found on my pickup also.

 

[GeoRoss]

The last pieces of the puzzle have arrived. Thanks @cruiseroutfit !

Don’t take this the wrong way Kurt, but my credit card would like to take a breather on the relationship it has developed with you. I assure you it is the card, not you. I’m sure my credit card will rekindle this affair.

Me? I’m tickled pink.

I won’t be able to reassemble this weekend. I didn’t have time to finish prepping and painting this week with the Mrs out of town and me super busy. If I get it all painted this weekend that just gives the paint more time to cure. That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

 

[GeoRoss]

Uggghhhh

Yeah painting will be easy. What a PITA

Now to acetone and mask the rest.

 

[GeoRoss]

Everything is ready to paint . I just. Need to put up some scaffolding to hang the heavy stuff. Sadly I’m out of time today. I’ll try to sneak away from work early tomorrow and paint tomorrow afternoon.

I started at 8am and finished at 3pm. No way I can make a living doing restorations.

The disc backing plate and felt retainers turned out alright. A couple of drips in places nobody will see until they take it apart.

 

[GeoRoss]

All painted and masking remover. I’ll do a few bolts tomorrow and see if I can get this Land Cruiser on the road on Saturday.

 

[BILT4ME]

All painted and masking remover. I’ll do a few bolts tomorrow and see if I can get this Land Cruiser on the road on Saturday. View attachment 1949098View attachment 1949100View attachment 1949103

OCD much?

 

[GeoRoss]

OCD much?

Yep, I have trouble with the concept of “fit for purpose”.

It was only really time and I enjoy detail work.

 

[Devil's Slide Doug]

Impressive painting. I bolt it all together and then just hit everything that remains exposed with black rattle can.