SPC UCA failure (1 Viewer)

[planomateo]

@sleeoffroad makes some good points, completely unknown what was stated between the OP and SPC customer service, potential install issues, etc.

Social media is a platform that can help cut through a company's bureaucracies and poorly run customer service organizations. It's not about bullying them, it's about getting to talk to the right person. Personally I've had to use it a few times when dealing with companies when they screw up but won't own up to it. I'm not ashamed to use social media. SPC being what I would imagine is a small company probably doesn't have that. I've only used social media as a last resort, but it's worked each time with little effort. Companies have people dedicated to social media to ensure issues get resolved.

I'm done with the conversation, it's clear by your comments I've add more fuel to the fire than is needed. OP can figure out what he/she wants to do going forward.

Thanks for providing a different perspective.

 

[dinnertime]

I'd be curious what they consider a professional.

Would they deny me a warranty claim if I installed them myself? I left Toyota a year and a half ago after 12 years as a MDT, and am still an ASE master (I did let my L1 lapse). I don't wrench for a living any more though.

 

[erse]

I disagree that there is

mob mentality

Or crucifixion going on. Though mud does love both on occasion.

I can understand how a company would not want to replace under warranty every item that failed. As you rightly point out, how and by who's hand it was installed or set up can have a huge impact. However, from a customer service stand point its not good to hear from multiple posters about perceived poor or recalcitrant customer service from a company that many mudders might choose to drop serious coin with in purchasing their items.

Customer service has to be responsive, approachable and fair. Did SPC ask this poster, or any other owner with a failure, to send them the broken items so that they might examine them and verify whether any manufacturing defect was present? If they didn't seems to me maybe the company is missing a potential opportunity to learn.

I am no metallurgist or mechanical genius but that failure looks bad. I am open to alternate explanations of why it happened but banging down on the OP even by someone as respected as yourself in the community, is not a good way to defend the company. Most people work hard for the money they spend on their rigs and I think its reasonable for an expensive part to be scrutinized.

I do agree with you that

3. What was SPC's official response to this and why did they deny the warrantee?

Is an important missing piece of information. However, as my grandmother would tell you, be careful what you wish for. If the reason is simply the vehicle changed hands then that, while being technically correct would be an unimpressive response. Anyone can create a finely worded list of exclusions and hide behind them. Again as stated above a switched on, impressive company would be all over getting those failed parts back for examination.

Your statement

One other thing for people to realize that now want to blanketly condemn a product is that those arms are not the current version being sold. The current version has X-Axis bushing in the frame side.

doesn't really help the argument I don't think, as I really believe the key here is the customer service piece. Its great that product improvement has happened but I would still be reluctant to buy from a company who doesn't fully support their customers if a defect is found. I am not sure if that's really the case with SPC, but the multiple reports of poor responses would certainly give me pause.

To your question

Would the same reaction happen if another brand of arm breaks?

The answer is yes. I think mud would be willing to call out any company if it was felt their product was defective or their customer service lacking. I see evidence of that all over mud. Not sure why you would think otherwise.

Please note I am an impartial observer as many here are. Both the OP and you have skin in the game. There is certainly nothing wrong with a passionate statement that protects ones interests. However I am really more interested in what really happened, we can't get to that if the company in question is not interested in the answer.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Anything can break and will, nothing against Trail Taylor or anyone else making arms, but I doubt anyone puts as much into QC and engineering as SPC for alignment products. Would the same reaction happen if another brand of arm breaks? Yes one can just throw parts at any warrantee claim and create good "customer service" but at some point companies have to set policies and adhere to them as well.

A simple “it’s against our policy, but here is one replacement arm at cost” would have been a reasonable response. Now they’ve got this thread out there, a bunch of publicity from the most popular 100 series event, and a bunch of frustrated people on the biggest land cruiser forum on the internet.

Parts fail, defects happen... it's unavoidable... but the way you handle them is important when threads like this are a google search away. They get to choose how they conduct business and I get to choose where I spend my money, it won't be with SPC going forward.

The number of folks in this thread who were considering buying SPC arms, who now won't, was probably worth at least one UCA at cost for OP.

 

[gatormark91]

A simple “it’s against our policy, but here is one replacement arm at cost” would have been a reasonable response. Now they’ve got this thread out there, a bunch of publicity from the most popular 100 series event, and a bunch of frustrated people on the biggest land cruiser forum on the internet.

Parts fail, defects happen... it's unavoidable... but the way you handle them is important when threads like this are a google search away. They get to choose how they conduct business and I get to choose where I spend my money, it won't be with SPC going forward.

The number of folks in this thread who were considering buying SPC arms, who now won't, was probably worth at least one UCA at cost for OP.

It doesn't take much to win or lose a customer for life. I am not faulting their product, since I have not had a problem with mine so far. But my experience with their customer service, all the way up to their President, was disappointing. The part number between the 200-series and 100-series arms is literally ONE digit off (a 5 vs. a 6). I ordered the wrong ones, and the point of sale seller told me to pound sand. All SPC had to do was exchange them, all at my cost for any shipping. The issue was mine, but they could have helped me out easily, at no cost to their company. They literally just chose not to. The customer support guy said he wanted to, but when he asked the President of the company, he said no. My fault? YES. But what would it have cost them to help me at no cost to them and get my eternal good will? NOTHING. They just chose not to. So I will exercise my right as a consumer and I will never buy SPC or recommend them again, no matter how good or bad their product is. And they don't sell directly - any one you buy from that isn't big enough to stock, they drop ship directly from SPC. No shop tells you that, of course. Got an issue? Many steps to get it resolved. Need to return them? 20% restock fee CHARGED BY SPC, no exceptions. It's just not a modern way to do business when they are not the only choice out there.

If I had bought, for example, from @TRAIL TAILOR , I know when I send an email, I'm going to get a response from Jason. He WILL make it right, and fast. And it won't cost me an arm and a leg and going through multiple layers of BS to get it done right. That is why I buy from him, and why I recommend his products EVERY chance I get.

 

[Manhattan]

@sleeoffroad I get your points. Really. I know, as good as your shop is, even you have had customers whine. But your business continues to thrive because you get it (you're woke - for you millennials) - you realize the power of social media - the good and the bad. You make a great product AND have great customer service. That's the mandate today.

SPC behaves much more like a pure B2B company - their customer service, social media, etc. And that's fine - most of their business is B2B. They'd probably be better off just white-labeling (make products for other companies - keep their brand off the product) their products for other companies.... companies that have the staff, processes to work with customers - the B2C customers.

 

[Alibaster]

To be fair almost all of this is laid out on their website under their policies.

 

[Alibaster]

@sleeoffroad I get you points. Really. I know, as good as your shop is, even you have had customers whine. But your business continues to thrive because you get it (you're woke - for you millennials) - you realize the power of social media - the good and the bad. You make a great product AND have great customer service. That's the mandate today.

SPC behaves much more like a pure B2B company - their customer service, social media, etc. And that's fine - most of their business is B2B. They'd probably be better off just white-labeling (make products for other companies - keep their brand off the product) their products for other companies.... companies that have the staff, processes to work with customers - the B2C customers.

There are five pages of people who bought them. And that’s just 100 series cruisers. It seems like they’re doing alright. The OP wasn’t covered under warranty at all. I didn’t know that at first and the mob mentality took me. What else should they have done.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

To be fair almost all of this is laid out on their website under their policies.

 

[nitteo]

sooooo, I just purchased a pair of SPCs, but if I put it on myself, since I am no "pro" I void the warranty??????? How about a shop? How do I prove they ARE "PROS"?

 

[Alibaster]

I would assume if they work for a taxable business and are employed as a mechanic they are a professional? That’s something that is vague.

 

[sleeoffroad]

It doesn't take much to win or lose a customer for life. I am not faulting their product, since I have not had a problem with mine so far. But my experience with their customer service, all the way up to their President, was disappointing. The part number between the 200-series and 100-series arms is literally ONE digit off (a 5 vs. a 6). I ordered the wrong ones, and the point of sale seller told me to pound sand.

Who was the reseller?

All SPC had to do was exchange them, all at my cost for any shipping. The issue was mine, but they could have helped me out easily, at no cost to their company. They literally just chose not to.

How is this at no cost to them? So they would have had to manage an RMA, do all the paperwork for that, somehow change their procedures to swap a set of arms for a customer that purchased through a reseller? All of that takes time and money, when ultimately the error was yours and it was an issue between the reseller and you, not the manufacturer of the product. At best they would have had to charge you for the arms (an lose +- 2.5% on the transaction), then refunded you when you send the other back, again losing +- 2.5% on the transaction. Most customers do not even think about that. They would have to allocate resources to pack it, ship it an then keep track of the RMA and inspect product when they get it back to make sure it is in sellable form.

The customer support guy said he wanted to, but when he asked the President of the company, he said no. My fault? YES. But what would it have cost them to help me at no cost to them and get my eternal good will? NOTHING.

This is unfortunately where you are making the mistake, it would have cost them time and money and an exchange like that should be handled by the dealer.

And they don't sell directly - any one you buy from that isn't big enough to stock, they drop ship directly from SPC. No shop tells you that, of course. Got an issue? Many steps to get it resolved. Need to return them? 20% restock fee CHARGED BY SPC, no exceptions. It's just not a modern way to do business when they are not the only choice out there.

Maybe time to check the vendors you use, we stock all the parts we sell. However, in this case we would have charged a restocking fee for the reasons stated above. Most shops are simply not Amazon that can absorb those costs.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Parts fail, defects happen... it's unavoidable... but the way you handle them is important when threads like this are a google search away. They get to choose how they conduct business and I get to choose where I spend my money, it won't be with SPC going forward.

Exactly why I try to post some more info / vendor perspective. Yes could they have done something more on a goodwill basis, yes. However not being privy to the conversation or what happened, it is speculative as to what transpired.

Would the OP have been happy to pay for a full set of arms plus shipping, then return his for inspection and them determine if there was a fault in the product? What would the outcome have been had they said, sorry, not a manufacturing defect. Would the backlash have been against their determination?

I also wanted to point out the technical issue to show why the arm (or any other arm) can break. I would urge people that DIY install to make sure before connecting the spindle that the arm is free to move and not bound up.

I have one question for the masses, should a company warranty any part where proof of purchase by original owner cannot be supplied if it is required by their policy? Case and point, purchase a set of arms of craigslist, or worse get a free set of arms that have been damaged / broke /worn components and simply demand warranty replacement?

Purchasing a built vehicle does not entitle the owner of said vehicle to have rights to the warranty on the products installed unless specifically stated as a transferable warranty. Would you expect Toyota to warranty any part (even a critical suspension component) on a used vehicle even when that vehicle is out of warranty, without it being covered by an extended transferable warranty?

I simply do not see how the standards are different for a smaller company that make aftermarket parts vs. large corporations when they do have the detailed spelled out in their policies.

 

[gatormark91]

Who was the reseller?



How is this at no cost to them? So they would have had to manage an RMA, do all the paperwork for that, somehow change their procedures to swap a set of arms for a customer that purchased through a reseller? All of that takes time and money, when ultimately the error was yours and it was an issue between the reseller and you, not the manufacturer of the product. At best they would have had to charge you for the arms (an lose +- 2.5% on the transaction), then refunded you when you send the other back, again losing +- 2.5% on the transaction. Most customers do not even think about that. They would have to allocate resources to pack it, ship it an then keep track of the RMA and inspect product when they get it back to make sure it is in sellable form.



This is unfortunately where you are making the mistake, it would have cost them time and money and an exchange like that should be handled by the dealer.



Maybe time to check the vendors you use, we stock all the parts we sell. However, in this case we would have charged a restocking fee for the reasons stated above. Most shops are simply not Amazon that can absorb those costs.

I told them I would cover any and all costs involved in the swap. ALL of it. Bill me whatever you think is reasonable. My bad, I'll cover it all. That held no water with them, which was entirely their right to do. But other vendors simply don't do that, so if SPC loses business because of my bad word of mouth, it just shows to me that they are big enough they don't care about helping customers who made a choice and bought their product in good faith, only about moving product out the door.

 

[Alibaster]

Exactly why I try to post some more info / vendor perspective. Yes could they have done something more on a goodwill basis, yes. However not being privy to the conversation or what happened, it is speculative as to what transpired.

Would the OP have been happy to pay for a full set of arms plus shipping, then return his for inspection and them determine if there was a fault in the product? What would the outcome have been had they said, sorry, not a manufacturing defect. Would the backlash have been against their determination?

I also wanted to point out the technical issue to show why the arm (or any other arm) can break. I would urge people that DIY install to make sure before connecting the spindle that the arm is free to move and not bound up.

I have one question for the masses, should a company warranty any part where proof of purchase by original owner cannot be supplied if it is required by their policy? Case and point, purchase a set of arms of craigslist, or worse get a free set of arms that have been damaged / broke /worn components and simply demand warranty replacement?

Purchasing a built vehicle does not entitle the owner of said vehicle to have rights to the warranty on the products installed unless specifically stated as a transferable warranty. Would you expect Toyota to warranty any part (even a critical suspension component) on a used vehicle even when that vehicle is out of warranty, without it being covered by an extended transferable warranty?

I simply do not see how the standards are different for a smaller company that make aftermarket parts vs. large corporations when they do have the detailed spelled out in their policies.

I’d be curious to know the number of people who have experienced OEM failures that still buy OEM parts with zero help from Toyota. Isn’t there a giant thread about gas pressure and literal fires that hasn’t been addressed at all by Toyota and we all still buy their products?

 

[sleeoffroad]

@gatormark91 still interested to know the reseller and why they would not exchange even with a retocking fee?

 

[gatormark91]

Who was the reseller?



How is this at no cost to them? So they would have had to manage an RMA, do all the paperwork for that, somehow change their procedures to swap a set of arms for a customer that purchased through a reseller? All of that takes time and money, when ultimately the error was yours and it was an issue between the reseller and you, not the manufacturer of the product. At best they would have had to charge you for the arms (an lose +- 2.5% on the transaction), then refunded you when you send the other back, again losing +- 2.5% on the transaction. Most customers do not even think about that. They would have to allocate resources to pack it, ship it an then keep track of the RMA and inspect product when they get it back to make sure it is in sellable form.



This is unfortunately where you are making the mistake, it would have cost them time and money and an exchange like that should be handled by the dealer.



Maybe time to check the vendors you use, we stock all the parts we sell. However, in this case we would have charged a restocking fee for the reasons stated above. Most shops are simply not Amazon that can absorb those costs.

Christo -
Remember a guy a few months back that had a bad stainless brake line? The nylon guide split? That was me. You asked for a picture, and sent out a replacement line, no questions asked. You didn't ask me to send it back so you could examine it while my truck sat unusable. I didn't even get a follow up email asking if I had a professional mechanic install it, etc.. just a new line, Priority Mail. That is everything anyone could ever ask from a company, and more. That is service done right, and why everyone buys from you. How SPC it's doing it.... Doesn't work for me

 

[reznunt]

 

[gatormark91]

Christo -
Remember a guy a few months back that had a bad stainless brake line? The nylon guide split? That was me. You asked for a picture, and sent out a replacement line, no questions asked. You didn't ask me to send it back so you could examine it while my truck sat unusable. I didn't even get a follow up email asking if I had a professional mechanic install it, etc.. just a new line, Priority Mail. That is everything anyone could ever ask from a company, and more. That is service done right, and why everyone buys from you. How SPC it's doing it.... Doesn't work for me

I bought a tailgate storage system from Hurracan Fabrication in Australia. It wasn't made correctly, one of the stops for one of the doors was bonded in wrong, so it could not close tightly with the hardware they used. They did not ask for the old one back, they asked for some pics showing what was wrong, and they sent me a new one. It cost them <<$250>> (materials, labor, shipping) to make it right. More good customer service. Good service is done one way, and bad is done another. I know who gets my money and my recommendation - making a good product is how you sell one item to one customer. GOOD SERVICE after the sale is how you keep them coming back and get more customers.

Imagine what the original post would have been like if the original poster had just gotten a new UCA, no questions asked? "OMG, fantastic fast service from SPC, and I wasn't even the original owner!". You can't buy that sort of good advertising. A smart retailer builds in some loss for that in the their pricing, because the return on that investment is HUGE.

 

[Alibaster]

Sounds like a good idea. Let me induce failure when I want to replace my UCAs. Perfect business model.

Maybe it’s just me but I would never even try to return or exchange a second hand item I bought.