Should I buy an 80, costs of ownership? (2 Viewers)

[desmocruiser]

As additional data points for any potential new 80 owners, here are a few hard figures I'm willing put into the world:

Cost of purchase for my 1997 LX450 - $9,500 in Sep 2019, no FF/RR diff locks, numerous owners and one theft (2002) on the Carfax
Mileage at purchase - 168k
Current miles - 232k
Maintenance, mods, repairing things I've broken, and tires - $14,711
Assuming 14mpg and gas being $3 a gal on average in this time span, $13,714 on fuel (or 4571 gallons for anyone who wants to do their own math with their MPG and gas prices)

A few other things to note:
- I have not done all of my own maintenance. There were a few items I farmed out to various shops, including both independent mechanics and the Lexus dealer. About $4,400 spent at shops (parts and labor) total
- My "build" has been very mild. No mods aside from an ARB bar, Warn VR EVO 12k winch, used BIOR sliders, and some quality of life goodies from Wits-End. I somehow managed to score my OME stock springs and shocks for free
- I run two sets of tires - all terrain and dedicated snowies
- This does not include the $900ish I've spent on "transferrable gear" - traction boards, tools, tire chains, etc

This brings us to a whopping total of roughly $38,000 spent over the course of 39 months. That's approximately $972 a month. (Not including the aforementioned transferrable gear or insurance)

But can a person really put a price on owning the best 4x4 ever offered in the US? I would say it depends on your financial situation and needs. My goal is to reach 300k miles or beyond and I will continue to do whatever it takes to get my rig there, because to me this is an irreplaceable vehicle.

Your mileage may vary, more details on what I've done with my LX450 can be found in the link in my signature.

Hope someone finds this helpful and feel free to correct me if I made any math errors.

Only counting for the differential fuel costs of an 80 series, you are still in the $25-$30k range, which is the cost of entry for today’s reasonably dependable and somewhat built 80 Series world!

But like you said, you are driving the best and in my biased opinion it is worth it!

 

[SaturnAscends]

Well said!

DIY is great, especially to gain knowledge of how it is done and this forum is invaluable in that regard. It has also taught me to make good decisions, what I can or can not do or sometimes what do I want or don’t want to do!

Funny, you mention $30k, that is about what buying and or owning a reasonably dependable 80 with runway left in longevity costs these days!!!

Yeah certain jobs make sense to DIY, like a water pump/thermostat for example: a shop will want to charge you $600 for maybe an hour of work.

As far as the cost of ownership overall, I’d say it depends on your standards. If you just want an old beater to trundle along and run some trails with, just keep the fluids topped up and carry some BARS in case the head gasket lets go. After all, these things were made to limp along rough global roads with minimal service.

All I ever did to my 96 Camry was top up the oil, and it took me all over Tasmania and never let me down, and a Land Crusier should be more robust than a Camry.

 

[desmocruiser]

My kids are all grown up and gone. I work on my stuff when wife is at work.

Working on my Cruiser is therapy. I don’t earn 6 figures. There are few shops that work to my standard, which is extremely high. If they did then I still would not use them at over $100/hr.

There are no “cruiser” specialty shops here. As a matter of fact I have 2 people asking me to restore/rebuild vintage Toyotas because of my skill set and standards.

My time is just as valuable as the nexts. So, I can work extra to pay someone to fix my cruiser, or I can save and enjoy the time in the shop.

Everyone is different with different priorities and may not have luxuries others have

Exactly, luxuries come in all forms (time, skill/knowledge, financial income/commitments, access to shops/tools etc.) and even those and your priorities shift throughout life!

The key is to enjoy each step, sounds like you are!

A highly skilled productive automotive technician can earn $40-$60 per hour in today’s market, that is why most every shop is $100 plus per hour and good one’s are worth it, but there is still plenty of questionable work being performed and few people with the experience and desire to work on a 25+ year old Land Cruiser!!!!

 

[Corbet]

The only shop I trust to work on my 80 is 1-1/2 hours away. So despite the value of time I generally work on my own stuff. If I can get the boy to help it takes longer but becomes family time and time well spent.

That said I’d rather being doing something else fun out in the backcountry than wrenching on my truck all the time.

 

[duece71]

My Cruiser tech/connection charges $450 to install shocks and springs on an 80. What else did you have done for $2600?

Like I said, it was a dealership, they will always charge the highest labor rates. I will attempt to do it myself next time but I doubt I will get it all done in a day like they did Lol.

 

[desmocruiser]

Like I said, it was a dealership, they will always charge the highest labor rates. I will attempt to do it myself next time but I doubt I will get it all done in a day like they did Lol.

Yeah, I understood it was done at a dealer, Toyota I presume.

I just asked did they do other work than install springs and shocks, installing a lift means different things to different people.

If they pressed in new bushings or installed caster plates or arms, installed panhard bars, added extended brake lines/diff breathers, installed sway bar blocks/links, adjusted LSPV, did an alignment etc., the scope of the job, time to DIY, and value received changes significantly.

Not trying to justify dealer’s/shop charges or say you overpaid, just trying to help others understand the costs and an idea of what work was completed, since that is the subject of the thread.

 

[duece71]

Yeah, I understood it was done at a dealer, Toyota I presume.

I just asked did they do other work than install springs and shocks, installing a lift means different things to different people.

If they pressed in new bushings or installed caster plates or arms, installed panhard bars, added extended brake lines/diff breathers, installed sway bar blocks/links, adjusted LSPV, did an alignment etc., the scope of the job, time to DIY, and value received changes significantly.

Not trying to justify dealer’s/shop charges or say you overpaid, just trying to help others understand the costs and an idea of what work was completed, since that is the subject of the thread.

Just the install of the springs, shocks and steering dampener. I did get a wheel balance and alignment as well which made sense but that’s it. Toyota dealership 10 mins from my house.

 

[JoeCova]

I never consider DIY time wasted and "our time" is an arbitrary number. Like others I enjoy working on vehicles and always have a build in progress. When this one is done, I'll buy another and build that. Just giant Lego sets to me but I find the argument about time and "worth" completely moot considering how much is wasted on social media, TV etc. Aftrer 8pm when my kids go to bed I tinker in the garage, most everyone else is a vegetable in front of their TV at this time.

 

[TheRealDeal124]

Yeah certain jobs make sense to DIY, like a water pump/thermostat for example: a shop will want to charge you $600 for maybe an hour of work.

As far as the cost of ownership overall, I’d say it depends on your standards. If you just want an old beater to trundle along and run some trails with, just keep the fluids topped up and carry some BARS in case the head gasket lets go. After all, these things were made to limp along rough global roads with minimal service.

All I ever did to my 96 Camry was top up the oil, and it took me all over Tasmania and never let me down, and a Land Crusier should be more robust than a Camry.



View attachment 3356838

I've always thought of grabbing this generation Camry, especially the Wagon trim, and DD one over the winter. Tanks they are.

 

[nuclearlemon]

Like I said, it was a dealership, they will always charge the highest labor rates. I will attempt to do it myself next time but I doubt I will get it all done in a day like they did Lol.

they have to charge higher rates because of dealership requirements by the manufacturers. their techs have to be certified in multiple factions of toyota repair. they have to carry all the special service tools that are not cheap to buy. they have to do proper diagnostics for even the easiest repair. if you go in for an oil change, they still hook up and do a health report.

i'm on the heavy truck side, but i'm sure automotive is the same...i've talked to the people at the local joe blow shops. i wouldn't trust some of them to drive my car into the bay . does that mean they're all bad and that dealership employees are all good. no. but the odds are better.

that said, i do almost all my own work. same reason as fjbj40. i don't have a six figure salary and even the most prominent shops have let me down (multiple shops, each on one occasion, but it happens). this way, if it's jacked up, it's my fault and i'm not paying for someone else's mistake

 

[Tachycardic]

Like Roketdriver, here are my data points (keep in mind that I did not drive my the truck while I lived in Korea for 22 months):

Cost of purchase for my 1994 FZJ - $7,300 in Nov 2019, no FF/RR diff locks, 5 prior owners and and a clean Carfax (CT truck from 1994-2005, FL truck from 2005-2015, AZ/NV from 2015-present), bringing the truck with me to UK in the next few weeks
Mileage at purchase - 272K
Current miles - 293K
Maintenance done at a shop and new tires ($5433 parts and labor), mods and oil changes ($3000), self repair items--rubbers/window trim, electrical, fuel pump/filters, brakes, etc. ($2000)
Assuming an average of 12.5mpg and gas being $3.80 a gal on average during this time, $6384 on fuel (1680 gallons)

A few other things to note:
- No mods aside from the blue fan clutch mod, an auxilliary fan, CDL, a diff breather kit, oil catch can, sound matting, Big Country 4x4 roof rack, Curt trailer hitch, RedArc Tow Pro, stock-height Dobinson suspension components with Air Lift air bags, and some chachkas from Wits End.
- This does not include the $800-ish I've spent on "transferrable gear" - traction boards, tools, tow straps, etc., and I did not include insurance paid.

This brings me to a total of roughly $24,000 spent over the course of 43 months--an average of about $560/month.

I suppose I could have leased a Sequoia for similar monthly money, but I learned how to be a shade-tree mechanic on the FZJ, and fully own the rig. And driving an 80 is just so much cooler!

 

[duece71]

they have to charge higher rates because of dealership requirements by the manufacturers. their techs have to be certified in multiple factions of toyota repair. they have to carry all the special service tools that are not cheap to buy. they have to do proper diagnostics for even the easiest repair. if you go in for an oil change, they still hook up and do a health report.

i'm on the heavy truck side, but i'm sure automotive is the same...i've talked to the people at the local joe blow shops. i wouldn't trust some of them to drive my car into the bay . does that mean they're all bad and that dealership employees are all good. no. but the odds are better.

that said, i do almost all my own work. same reason as fjbj40. i don't have a six figure salary and even the most prominent shops have let me down (multiple shops, each on one occasion, but it happens). this way, if it's jacked up, it's my fault and i'm not paying for someone else's mistake

Yes, I am sure that there is some liability that has to be covered as well. One thing about a dealership, if they do something to the truck that causes it to not run right, IME, the dealership will make it right. Just my experience with dealerships in general.

 

[lumbee1]

10 1/2 years of ownership
213,990 when purchased
283,XXX now

I think my list is an exception to the rule. I've always looked for the best deal (at the expense of my time) and do most of the work myself.
ARB front bumper $400
4x4 Labs rear bumper $1500
Suspension set #1 $1000
Suspension set #2 $2000
Two sets of tires $1500
Custom sliders $0
Engine rebuild $3000
Supercharger and parts $5200
Two headunits and two sets of speakers $450
Two axle rebuilds $700
Regear $1600
Depos headlights and LED bulbs $300
Three radiators $600
Roof rack $400
Two fridges $500
Lseat leather $300
Engine harness $600
Brakes with booster $1000
Tint $200
Panhard, delta bracket $300
Rear swaybar and endlinks $400
Two rear drawers $300
Spare tire $25
Custom grill $0
Rear driveshaft $100
Front DC driveshaft $300
5 lightbars $200
Caster correction and alignment $100
Window runs $240
AC compressor $200
Alternator and wiring $240

With extra bits, I've spent roughly $25K.

I've only paid for labor twice, to rebuild the engine and to regear my 3rds.

 

[fjbj40]

I paid $3000 US for my 93 in March 2019.
By the time I got back to Nova Scotia from San Francisco it was around $10,000 Cdn.
I’ve put about $6000 Cdn into it and that includes every cooling hose, radiator, intake system overhaul, complete fuel system refresh, all door seals/window runs. Fully rebuilt front axle including diff, new half shafts, birfs etc.
Diff breather relocation, OEM swingout tire carrier, new drivers seat cushion, Jesus grab bar and bunch more small stuff. 5 M55 Toyo’s, complete rear brake overhaul, OEM extended brake hoses.

All OEM parts from non-dealerships.

Labour was all mine with the exception of a fellow cruiserhead rebuilding the front diff while I watched and learned.

I could not afford this machine if I had to pay for the work.

I’m so happy I beat the Covid stupid pricing of Cruisers. I would not have bought my 80 during Covid madness.

So I’m in mine for less than $20,000 Cdn, or $2.00 US

 

[SaturnAscends]

that said, i do almost all my own work. same reason as fjbj40. i don't have a six figure salary and even the most prominent shops have let me down (multiple shops, each on one occasion, but it happens). this way, if it's jacked up, it's my fault and i'm not paying for someone else's mistake

This is all well and good as long as one doesn’t bite off more than they can chew. You seem like a seasoned wrencher, but nobody starts out doing engine swaps.

If you blow your head gasket for example, and you don’t feel experienced enough to do the repair yourself, I don’t see any shame in taking it to a reputable local shop to take care of it for you.

It’s not hard to find a decent indy mechanic that will stand by their work IMO with all the Google reviews out there. Not to mention the tools you’d have to buy (and use only once in some cases), will be more than the labor for certain jobs.

I’ve seen cases of people having to scrap their truck due to a botched timing belt, head job, etc., or they end up paying more than they would’ve in the first place for a mobile mechanic to come salvage their mess. IME it’s best to start slow with minor jobs like the starter, water pump etc. and avoid getting ahead of yourself.

 

[Bludozer]

10 1/2 years of ownership
213,990 when purchased
283,XXX now

I think my list is an exception to the rule. I've always looked for the best deal (at the expense of my time) and do most of the work myself.
ARB front bumper $400
4x4 Labs rear bumper $1500
Suspension set #1 $1000
Suspension set #2 $2000
Two sets of tires $1500
Custom sliders $0
Engine rebuild $3000
Supercharger and parts $5200
Two headunits and two sets of speakers $450
Two axle rebuilds $700
Regear $1600
Depos headlights and LED bulbs $300
Three radiators $600
Roof rack $400
Two fridges $500
Lseat leather $300
Engine harness $600
Brakes with booster $1000
Tint $200
Panhard, delta bracket $300
Rear swaybar and endlinks $400
Two rear drawers $300
Spare tire $25
Custom grill $0
Rear driveshaft $100
Front DC driveshaft $300
5 lightbars $200
Caster correction and alignment $100
Window runs $240
AC compressor $200
Alternator and wiring $240

With extra bits, I've spent roughly $25K.

I've only paid for labor twice, to rebuild the engine and to regear my 3rds.

View attachment 3358976

You paid a total of $3k for an "engine rebuild" and that was including labor?

 

[lumbee1]

You paid a total of $3k for an "engine rebuild" and that was including labor?

I pulled the engine with the help of a friend. I paid $700 for the LC Engineering premium rebuild kit and roughly $1300 for the machine shop labor. This was a full disassembly, clean, inspect, measure, and reassembly. I didn't have a blown head gasket but didn't know the full history of the engine. I needed to address valve seals, upper oil pan leak, lower oil pan leak, rear main leak, water pump, and valve cover gasket leak. There was more wear than expected and I needed pistons .020" oversized.

Between substituting OEM parts, bolts, sensors, and anything else that failed during removal, rebuild, and reinstall, I estimated the rebuild at $3000.

Removal

Reinstall

 

[NCFJ]

If you plan to drive older vehicles you do yourself a disservice if you are not learning how to turn wrenches on them yourself. I won't go into the esoteric reasons, me, I am big kid that likes playing with all things mechanical. But, even if you do not do your own work and have to pay a shop to work on your truck that would be the same case with any used vehicle you may choose. In the long run a well maintained 80 is a great vehicle, so long as gas MPG is not a concern, it's a truck.

When ours is actually running (in the midst of a swap/paint/interior/mechanical rebuild) it is a perfect second vehicle. My wife uses it to haul horse feed, dogs to the vet and prefers nothing else in bad weather. I use it as a shop truck and as a general DD along with my pickup. We also use it for wheeling and camping trips.

Most of us do not look at our Cruisers like we look at most other vehicles. Most of us keep them far longer than we keep most vehicles and they are "special".

Now, compare a well maintained 80 to any new vehicle that is similarly capable and see what the bottom lines tell you. Shame you can not factor in cool when you are looking at expense.

 

[jaymar]

they have to charge higher rates because of dealership requirements by the manufacturers. their techs have to be certified in multiple factions of toyota repair. they have to carry all the special service tools that are not cheap to buy. they have to do proper diagnostics for even the easiest repair. if you go in for an oil change, they still hook up and do a health report.

i'm on the heavy truck side, but i'm sure automotive is the same...i've talked to the people at the local joe blow shops. i wouldn't trust some of them to drive my car into the bay . does that mean they're all bad and that dealership employees are all good. no. but the odds are better.

that said, i do almost all my own work. same reason as fjbj40. i don't have a six figure salary and even the most prominent shops have let me down (multiple shops, each on one occasion, but it happens). this way, if it's jacked up, it's my fault and i'm not paying for someone else's mistake

Problem with a dealership is, chances are they rarely if ever work on 80s. "If" you're gonna pay someone else, find someone who knows and loves these rigs, and works them all the time.