Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts? (9 Viewers)

[TeCKis300]

I think we forget that in fridged regions, even ICE engines have "serious engineering" flaws.

Diesels:
- Gelling of fuel

- Fuel filtration issues​

- Glow plugs and freezing temps make for hard starting (block warmer, even colder requires idling all winter)

@KLF, heat pumps aren't a practical technology much below freezing as there's minimal heat energy to actually capture.

 

[FJ73Texas]

It's possible Toyota will replace the current $90k Cruiser with a Cruiser that is half the cost, a lot less bells and comforts, but with more off-road capabilities.

Doesn't Toyota already make this? The 70 series?

 

[KLF]

@KLF, heat pumps aren't a practical technology much below freezing as there's minimal heat energy to actually capture.

Well, I'm aware that they get less efficient as the outdoor temp drops below freezing. But the mini-split heating my house today seems to work just fine all the way down to -10degF (although less efficiently). Just like AC units have to work harder as the outdoors get hotter. It's all about the delta-T.

I'm a bystander and it's not my expertise, but it seems like they already have an AC system in the car. Why couldn't it be reversed, heat pump style, then when the temps get really low, switch to backup resistive heat. I'm sure they thought of it, though. I'm just curious.

 

[TeCKis300]

It's all about the delta-T.

You got it.

It's even more interesting in the most recent architectures. The model 3 doesn't even have a dedicated heater. It uses the traction motor inverter to generate heat or uses its waste heat for preheating and such.

 

[CharlieS]

I’m curious what made you buy Ford #2, 3 & 4 having been so disappointed. Had you just not owned a Toyota yet?

Yes, you are exactly correct. I didn't own my first Toyota until after my last Ford, and I've never looked back.

 

[82SC]

My wife needs a replacement for her minivan.
Never was a fan of the Tesla....contemplated Tesla X

Put a deposit a couple months ago for a R1S.

I would never trade my LC200 for it.

But I'm excited to do some short local trips with it and compare. Will try towing the patriot camper with it as well.

Newest update from Rivian was 2nd half of 2023.

I do think battery technology will get better and better and it will change outdoor activity for the better and worse.
The computing power and miniaturization of tech already allows independent control of each tire and the ability to sense and activate different motors and servos and actuators are going to be a huge change to offroading and rock crawling. I can see that soon there will be cameras sensing the rocks under the car and adjust the height to avoid them and to be able to map out the topography of the rocks and obstacles and give you a path and even to concoct the exact plan of attack when to raise and lower the height and which wheels to spin, where and with how much torque etc...

Now I do not look forward to that future. I want no part of it. But its coming.
My son will one day brag about it and with one hand I'll shake my fist and say back in my day!! and with my other I'll still be clutching onto my LC200’s peeling leather faux wood steering wheel that doens't have CarPlay.

 

[Reckless]

I saw an article where Amazon drivers were mad that Rivians were getting less than 100 miles range when running heaters/etc. Sounds terrible to me. I imagine in 10 years they will have battery technology on the road to handle serious weight. I am rooting for EVs but they have a long way to go. The normal R1s weighs 7,000lbs and gets 314 miles of range which is more than my LC. With 4 motors it is supposed to handle really well. Can't wait for cybertruck!

 

[82SC]

I saw an article where Amazon drivers were mad that Rivians were getting less than 100 miles range when running heaters/etc. Sounds terrible to me. I imagine in 10 years they will have battery technology on the road to handle serious weight. I am rooting for EVs but they have a long way to go. The normal R1s weighs 7,000lbs and gets 314 miles of range which is more than my LC. With 4 motors it is supposed to handle really well. Can't wait for cybertruck!

Agree with you but I think battery tech is a couple years away not 10. Have you seen the Tesla semis. I saw a few videos of the acceleration and it’s scary.

Rivian hasn’t released any range numbers while towing. So I’m sure that will be a big disappointment but that won’t be the main use for these vehicles. Practically no one tows with gas and diesel cars as it is. But it will be interesting to see how it goes. And very soon you’ll have trailers retrofitted with battery packs and small motors to give that assist and reduce strain on the car and improve range.

Battery tech is getting cheaper and cheaper. And soon it will be smaller and smaller. Charging will be faster and faster. Passenger vehicles will have 500 mile range soon. Commercial vehicles will lag behind a little given size and weight but it’s gonna be crazy.

I hate all of it. But it’s here to stay.

 

[Angelo1]

I saw an article where Amazon drivers were mad that Rivians were getting less than 100 miles range when running heaters/etc. Sounds terrible to me. I imagine in 10 years they will have battery technology on the road to handle serious weight. I am rooting for EVs but they have a long way to go. The normal R1s weighs 7,000lbs and gets 314 miles of range which is more than my LC. With 4 motors it is supposed to handle really well. Can't wait for cybertruck!

Cybertruck probably won’t hit until 2023 now.

 

[Reckless]

Agree with you but I think battery tech is a couple years away not 10.

I feel like 10 until it reaches mass market vehicles using solid state batteries or some variant. Bigger issue is how hackable vehicles will become especially if a server goes down. I can see hackers making immobilization devices.

 

[rscoleman]

Little off topic but speaks to my issues/concerns with modern cars. We have been considering replacing my Wife's car. She has 2009 Infiniti G37S Coupe. It has rack and pinion steering the throttle still connects via cable to throttle body and I can turn off traction control completely. We drove a new Lexus RC it has steering by electric, an electric motor opens and closes the throttle body, you can not defeat traction control, it will steer you back into your lane if you get to close to white lines (yes you can turn this off). It felt like video game as compared to car. If this is what I have to look forward to I am keeping my 2016 LC till it falls apart. Still not sure what we are going to get the wife she did not like the driving experience of new Lexus (she like the current Infiniti Q60 even less).
If this is what Rivian is going to be like count me out. I will keep my 97 T100 till I can't afford to fix it or I can't find parts. Note I drove my trunk on Wednesday from Austin to Matagorda with Kayak in bed to go fishing. 7 hours round trip driving speeds up to 80mph no issue. Only bummer is AC after 24 years finally gave up ghost. So I know what I have to fix next.

 

[Itsky]

Little off topic but speaks to my issues/concerns with modern cars. We have been considering replacing my Wife's car. She has 2009 Infiniti G37S Coupe. It has rack and pinion steering the throttle still connects via cable to throttle body and I can turn off traction control completely. We drove a new Lexus RC it has steering by electric, an electric motor opens and closes the throttle body, you can not defeat traction control, it will steer you back into your lane if you get to close to white lines (yes you can turn this off). It felt like video game as compared to car. If this is what I have to look forward to I am keeping my 2016 LC till it falls apart. Still not sure what we are going to get the wife she did not like the driving experience of new Lexus (she like the current Infiniti Q60 even less).
If this is what Rivian is going to be like count me out. I will keep my 97 T100 till I can't afford to fix it or I can't find parts. Note I drove my trunk on Wednesday from Austin to Matagorda with Kayak in bed to go fishing. 7 hours round trip driving speeds up to 80mph no issue. Only bummer is AC after 24 years finally gave up ghost. So I know what I have to fix next.

Agreed. Can’t think of anything I want less than a self driving car.

 

[DenverLX]

I have had a reservation for a long time on a RS1. I plan to keep my LX, but I think the Rivian is incredible. It’s a big luxry SUV that goes 0-60 in 3 secs. It’s also cheaper when compared to new LC/LX. I need my lx for distance towing and real off-roading but I can’t wait to get a Rivian.

 

[04UZJ100]

All of these new cars are now diagnosable products. Long gone are the days where cars are meant to me worked on, fixed, repaired, etc. Instead of having mechanical issues, cars will need firmware updates or receive OTA patches or be made obsolete by the “latest and greatest”.

There are far too many electronics in cars that OEMs will either not support or manufacture long term or that the aftermarket industry simply cannot replicate or create. Even if they could, cars will see that something other than genuine parts were used.

While on paper the Rivian may compete, I bet 10 years from now it will be completely out-dated, obsolete, and likely falling apart compared to any Land Cruiser of any generation.

I do not see any current offering from any manufacturer holding up like cars of 5-15 years ago. The massive push towards EV, consumers’ voracious appetite for new shiny objects, and large government mandates will have car manufacturers rushing products to market with little care for long term testing, durability, or reliability.

Long live the ethos of the Cruiser. That’s why we have 3 200s, a 100, and a V8 4Runner.

 

[Chocolate]

It's an interesting vehicle. Quad hub motors, very good ground clearance and performance. It's been slow going and Rivian has produced less than 1,000 vehicles to date.

I expect the F-150 Lightning will vastly outsell it. It lacks the air suspension, but does have 4-wheel independent suspension, a large dealer network, and is a better value. It had almost 3x the preorders of Rivian before Ford stopped taking them. There's greater demand than supply for these initial EV trucks. And the vast majority of the early F-150 Lightnings will also be marked up significantly.

Report: $30,000 Dealer Markup On Ford F-150 Lightning Spotted

The market launch of the Ford F-150 Lightning is just around the corner, but now reports emerge about dealers mark ups, or "market adjustments."

insideevs.com

And, it sure doesn't seem like there will be a Cybertruck with a 40K starting price like was promised back in 2019. Remember this? Well, now it costs $45,000 for a Model 3 RWD! Total BS to ever promise that price!

I probably wouldn't buy a Tesla with their reliability and build quality record, but it is interesting to see the Drone videos at the Giga Texas factory. Tesla is currently the only company building EVs at truly large scale.

 

[Bendcruiser]

Definitely no! I go too far away from civilization for electric to work. Hell, I have a hard time finding gas sometimes let alone a charging station. Until they come up with a 500-mile extension cord I'm sticking with my Cruiser!

 

[40Man]

Battery tech has come a long way, but we have limited supply of precious metals for current battery tech.

I think supercapacitors, which can charge much faster may be the solution.

Inefficiencies aside, I do think hydrogen woyod have been a more practicle and flexivle option, but like the Sony Betamax lost out to VHS, hydrogen is losing the battle to electric being adopted by manufacturers. I'm also surprised hybrid tech didn't become more popular.

I take far too many road trips and backcountry jaunts to make electric practicle at this point.

I may adopt electric for local use, but ICE vehicles will be my go to until I can charge in a comparable time, with similar amount of filling stations as gas (taking into account the benefit of home charging).

 

[DenverLX]

Couple things for all you doubters, Eletric vehicles are here and will boom in popularity, you will own one in the future, its just the way its going. Second, there are obvious downsides to electric, but there are downsides to ICE too, it just depends on what you what to focus on. Obviously, most people posting on Mud are a very unique users with needs that can’t be met by EVs but if you have a cruiser why would you not have your family’s second vehicle be an EV?

I personally doubt I will buy another ICE vehicle. I have my 16’ LX that I need for things that only gas can do, like tow, off-road far from civilization, long road trips, ext. But you have to be honest with yourselves, electric is superior for the vast majority of car needs. I’m a cruiser guy through and through, I’ve owned nothing but cruisers since college and its the Mud is the only place that I can find people as passionate as me about Land Cruisers, but the fact is, Rivian outperforms LC’s in almost every metric.

I live in Denver and have a house in the mountains, an electric vehicle would cut my gas prices a ton and be great for driving back and forth weekly. It’s faster, has more storage, cheaper to operate and maintain, has better tech, is cheaper new, ext. (let’s not forget that 200 series have less range than most EVs, its frankly ridiculous) I imagine a 5-10 years down the road that I will have an old built 80 series and my wife and I will both have EVs for everyday use.

 

[Angelo1]

I am sticking with good ole gas. To me electric is just another polluter people have adopted as environmentally friendly. Absolute illusion. The only way to actually prevent an environmental impact is to stop reproducing and live in a yurt or become Amish.

Couple things for all you doubters, Eletric vehicles are here and will boom in popularity, you will own one in the future, its just the way its going. Second, there are obvious downsides to electric, but there are downsides to ICE too, it just depends on what you what to focus on. Obviously, most people posting on Mud are a very unique users with needs that can’t be met by EVs but if you have a cruiser why would you not have your family’s second vehicle be an EV?

I personally doubt I will buy another ICE vehicle. I have my 16’ LX that I need for things that only gas can do, like tow, off-road far from civilization, long road trips, ext. But you have to be honest with yourselves, electric is superior for the vast majority of car needs. I’m a cruiser guy through and through, I’ve owned nothing but cruisers since college and its the Mud is the only place that I can find people as passionate as me about Land Cruisers, but the fact is, Rivian outperforms LC’s in almost every metric.

I live in Denver and have a house in the mountains, an electric vehicle would cut my gas prices a ton and be great for driving back and forth weekly. It’s faster, has more storage, cheaper to operate and maintain, has better tech, is cheaper new, ext. (let’s not forget that 200 series have less range than most EVs, its frankly ridiculous) I imagine a 5-10 years down the road that I will have an old built 80 series and my wife and I will both have EVs for everyday use.

I think it goes a bit deeper then just about performance and practicality. For me, it’s about connecting with the vehicle. Having driven a couple EV’s, I just find them bland. I don’t care about 0-60 times and charging times are still outrageously long, when I can hit a gas station and be in/out in 5-10mins. max. They simply don’t do anything for me. I sold my 19’ LC and bought the new X7 that is whisper quiet and absolutely sound insulating. It is hands down much better suv for pavement road tripping and errand running then the LC. But after two months, I was kind of over it and wanted a 200 again. I am the type of person who prefers a mechanical watch over an iwatch even though the iwatch offers much more capability. I will 1000% never own an ev. Our X7 40i gets 450mi of range. No need for an EV for us.

 

[coleAK]

Couple things for all you doubters, Eletric vehicles are here and will boom in popularity, you will own one in the future, its just the way its going. Second, there are obvious downsides to electric, but there are downsides to ICE too, it just depends on what you what to focus on. Obviously, most people posting on Mud are a very unique users with needs that can’t be met by EVs but if you have a cruiser why would you not have your family’s second vehicle be an EV?

I personally doubt I will buy another ICE vehicle. I have my 16’ LX that I need for things that only gas can do, like tow, off-road far from civilization, long road trips, ext. But you have to be honest with yourselves, electric is superior for the vast majority of car needs. I’m a cruiser guy through and through, I’ve owned nothing but cruisers since college and its the Mud is the only place that I can find people as passionate as me about Land Cruisers, but the fact is, Rivian outperforms LC’s in almost every metric.

I live in Denver and have a house in the mountains, an electric vehicle would cut my gas prices a ton and be great for driving back and forth weekly. It’s faster, has more storage, cheaper to operate and maintain, has better tech, is cheaper new, ext. (let’s not forget that 200 series have less range than most EVs, its frankly ridiculous) I imagine a 5-10 years down the road that I will have an old built 80 series and my wife and I will both have EVs for everyday use.

I agree, I’m at going on 8 years with at least one Tesla in Alaska with now one supercharger in the entire state. No way I’ll buy another ICE. Only drive the LX when towing the camper or off-roading, I’ve only driven it once in the last 3 months. Have a reservation on a Rivian max pack and tri motor (now quad motor) CT. That said when I get an EV truck ill drive it most of the time but I’ll keep my ‘13 LX until it becomes inoperable.