Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts? (2 Viewers)

[Itsky]

For me I have no plans to get rid of my LX, but I do have plans to get an eletric vehicle as a second car for the shorter commutes/day trips. Having multiple friends with Tesla Model 3 or Model S they are pretty awesome cars but I'd never want only have an electric car with the current range limitations. I'd want to see 500-600+ miles a charge before moving to owning only electric cars.

Not to mention they need to figure out what to do with the old batteries, and how replacing them will work. The next few years will be interesting with massive influx of teslas being sold, one their batteries start degrading on a large scale how that will impact resale/value of those cars. Tesla/Rivian and other manufacturers are going to need to have some way to address this that isn't $10-30k for a new battery pack.

i agree with this, I’m also skeptical about the electric grid as noted above. When an ev can be used for around town, basically with a short leash from the plug in the garage, it makes for a compelling option.

but honestly, a Prius hybrid does this now and is a Tesla really better? Where are the owners using the break neck acceleration?

 

[Angelo1]

Bfg at ko2 285/70/17 load C

(picked up off Craigslist as new take offs from jeep rubi for ~$750)

Ok, I’m surprised you’re getting the mpg with those. I am no tire tech but would the load C rating help vs load e? My RGs provide roughly 12.5 around town. Haven’t really paid much attention to highway but my previous experience with RGs was around 15 highway.

 

[bloc]

First off, let’s try and keep the overt political statements out of this so it can remain in the tech section.

Second, someone else touched on it and I’m too lazy to look back and see who that was, but my perception has always been that the “quality” of a LandCruiser is a large part of most of our draw to them. I haven’t owned a Tesla or Rivian, but have trouble seeing them come close to matching the level of quality we have come to love from our 200s. Yes there are other massive upsides.. obviously. But the expectations I’ve come to develop, of simple things like how an interior holds up or whether the paint on the wiper arms fades in the sun, that are a big factor in my plans to get rid of my German daily driver and replace it with a Lexus IS (most likely), will be lacking in the current EV market. It is very difficult to do these things without a few decades of car building experience, regardless of what engineers you hire.

When toyota jumps on board… I’ll be more interested. Sadly I envision their early EV options being along the use case of a Prius, aka boring AF.. but when things get more engaging.. IF they do.. I’ll seriously consider this.

Until then I’m going to be a Toyota owner.

 

[Itsky]

Ok, I’m surprised you’re getting the mpg with those. I am no tire tech but would the load C rating help vs load e? My RGs provide roughly 12.5 around town. Haven’t really paid much attention to highway but my previous experience with RGs was around 15 highway.

Yes, the load range c vs e helps undoubtedly. Here is a thread on the topic

Another tire thread - sorry

2535 lb each max load. More than enough for a 200, even heavily laden. Note as size and air volume goes up, load capacity of tires goes up for a given tire load range, I.e. 30” load range C will carry less load than a 35” load range c. If you think you can fit them, go for it.

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Angelo1]

Yes, the load range c vs e helps undoubtedly. Here is a thread on the topic

Another tire thread - sorry

2535 lb each max load. More than enough for a 200, even heavily laden. Note as size and air volume goes up, load capacity of tires goes up for a given tire load range, I.e. 30” load range C will carry less load than a 35” load range c. If you think you can fit them, go for it.

forum.ih8mud.com

Cool, thanks. How are the ko2 for road noise and in the rain? We don’t get snow here, so that’s not an issue. The last time inhad Ko2 on the 200, they were 35”s and they seemed to float a little.

 

[Angelo1]

First off, let’s try and keep the overt political statements out of this so it can remain in the tech section.

Second, someone else touched on it and I’m too lazy to look back and see who that was, but my perception has always been that the “quality” of a LandCruiser is a large part of most of our draw to them. I haven’t owned a Tesla or Rivian, but have trouble seeing them come close to matching the level of quality we have come to love from our 200s. Yes there are other massive upsides.. obviously. But the expectations I’ve come to develop, of simple things like how an interior holds up or whether the paint on the wiper arms fades in the sun, that are a big factor in my plans to get rid of my German daily driver and replace it with a Lexus IS (most likely), will be lacking in the current EV market. It is very difficult to do these things without a few decades of car building experience, regardless of what engineers you hire.

When toyota jumps on board… I’ll be more interested. Sadly I envision their early EV options being along the use case of a Prius, aka boring AF.. but when things get more engaging.. IF they do.. I’ll seriously consider this.

Until then I’m going to be a Toyota owner.

Unfortunately, politics goes hand and hand with ev discussions on every forum. Evs are highly politicized. Forcing fuel prices to go higher to push people into Evs isn’t natural progression. It’s like telling people to get vaccinated. Most people don’t like being told what to do by force. I agree, let’s get back on topic about whether the Rivian will replace the 200.

I am little surprised nobody is mentioning the Ford lighting. That looks pretty dang promising. My buddy is one of the first getting it and is already planning on flipping it for $100k. I certainly enjoy having a little fuel sipper in my garage for running errands and what not. Lately, it seems people are becoming even worse drivers and I see almost daily someone running a red light like it’s no big deal. This is where something like the Rivian or Lighting would be great for the added safety of a bigger vehicle when running around town vs a smaller car. The new Highlander hybrid looks promising as well.

 

[82SC]

Yeah there was an interesting YT video of a detail shop that was about to do PPF on a Rivian. And he went over with a fine tooth comb and pointed out the QC issues he saw.

Didn’t look too bad and stuff that a first run model would normally suffer through. My hope is Rivian will continue to improve on those rather then just plow ahead knowing you have a monopoly like Tesla does.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Speaking of range: don’t forget all of the people that live in climates with real winters, and what happens to EV range when temps are sub -20C… for months out of the year. Battery tech has a ways to go before they can be used for something beyond short, daily commuting in the cold winter.

 

[saucebox]

Electric drivetrains are great and only getting better, what I have a problem with is the rest of the vehicle. Modern vehicles are becoming filled to the brim with sensors/plastic parts/motors/wires/screens/modules. Converting an older car to EV with simple modular components would be the best of both worlds in my opinion.

I have no interest in driving a soulless and disposable appliance, but I'll admit it'd be ideal to get a used leaf or something similar as a beater/daily runaround car. Something the complete opposite of my old diesel land crusier would make a good combo, I'd always have the right tool for the job between both of those.

Funny you should mention a leaf: 1996 Land Cruiser EV Conversion - EVJ80 Project - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/1996-land-cruiser-ev-conversion-evj80-project.1268985/

 

[fyton2v]

I really like the styling of the R1T and R1S. They’ll have some glitches this year but wow Rivian is on a good path. If I still had to regularly commute to work I’d give up one of my other vehicles and be in the R1T. But the pandemic did away with my commute and that won’t change for the foreseeable future, for me at least.

Without the commute, range convenience becomes a primary concern. It’s not “range anxiety”. I’m not worried about potentially running out of power; I know there isn’t an e-car out there yet that’ll conveniently get me where I need to go without re-charging. The range estimates are not long enough and recharging is still takes too long. It’s made worse for Rivian because they don’t yet have a vast charging network.

So, maybe 5-10 years away for me.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I really like the styling of the R1T and R1S. They’ll have some glitches this year but wow Rivian is on a good path. If I still had to regularly commute to work I’d give up one of my other vehicles and be in the R1T. But the pandemic did away with my commute and that won’t change for the foreseeable future, for me at least.

Without the commute, range convenience becomes a primary concern. It’s not “range anxiety”. I’m not worried about potentially running out of power; I know there isn’t an e-car out there yet that’ll conveniently get me where I need to go without re-charging. The range estimates are not long enough and recharging is still takes too long. It’s made worse for Rivian because they don’t yet have a vast charging network.

So, maybe 5-10 years away for me.

I'm in the same boat here. Haven't commuted in ~8 years, so range, towing, quality, and just plain old convenience are the major factors in play. I'll end up with an EV eventually, there's no doubt about that, but it won't be any time soon.

 

[sedonut]

I briefly owned an EV at about 4000 feet elevation in Arizona. At 20 degrees F going up a grade you could cut your range by 50%. Too hot and using A/C cuts your range also. An EV would be great on the California coast, if they had the electrical grid to support them.

The government does not currently tax you per mile to drive, with a lot of EV's on the road and lower gas taxes they surely will.

Solar panels and windmills will not support a fleet of EV's year round. Good luck in the winter.

 

[sedonut]

One other current EV fun fact. If it is too cold your EV batteries must be heated, or too hot cooled, they can either do that with battery power while you have it or grid power. Ideally you have your EV plugged in at night heating the battery and the interior of the vehicle, then you drive off. If the power grid is down for a while during a blizzard, it could be interesting.

I think an EV would make a great short distance commuter vehicle in the right climate.

 

[bloc]

If it is too cold your EV batteries must be heated, or too hot cooled, they can either do that with battery power while you have it or grid power.

Is this absolute? Meaning, to use the vehicle at all the temp needs to be in-range? Or does it simply cut battery range? Or damage the cells to operate outside of that temperature window?

 

[eatSleepWoof]

If the power grid is down for a while during a blizzard, it could be interesting.

There's a major highway (#5 / Coquihalla) that connects the west coast of BC (ie. Vancouver / lower mainland) and the interior of the province; it's quite common for this highway to be spontaneously closed in the winter due to accidents or very heavy snow accumulation. There have been instances of people having to spend the night in the middle of the road, while they wait for the highway to be re-opened, and that's the reason I never enter that stretch of the road without filling up the tank.

I know my gasser can idle all night while keeping me warm, and I'll still have plenty of range left to get to the gas station; what will happen to an EV in those circumstances? It'll start with 50% of range to begin with (it's cold as hell outside), it'll drop even further due to the steep, mountain grades, and then deplete completely in a matter of hours when the EV is parked, but still needs heat? Not a situation I want to find myself in.

 

[Angelo1]

My limited experience was with a Tesla Model X about 4-5yrs ago in Denver when it was in the high 90’s. During the drive the AC stopped working to cool the battery and we no longer had AC for a couple minutes. It did this on/off cycle for an hour test drive. Not what I call a pleasant driving experience. I imagine with enough complaints they worked that out by now. Beyond that, it did nothing to excite me. Cool, it pulls amazing 0-60 times. Not important to me.

 

[Angelo1]

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There's a major highway (#5 / Coquihalla) that connects the west coast of BC (ie. Vancouver / lower mainland) and the interior of the province; it's quite common for this highway to be spontaneously closed in the winter due to accidents or very heavy snow accumulation. There have been instances of people having to spend the night in the middle of the road, while they wait for the highway to be re-opened, and that's the reason I never enter that stretch of the road without filling up the tank.

I know my gasser can idle all night while keeping me warm, and I'll still have plenty of range left to get to the gas station; what will happen to an EV in those circumstances? It'll start with 50% of range to begin with (it's cold as hell outside), it'll drop even further due to the steep, mountain grades, and then deplete completely in a matter of hours when the EV is parked, but still needs heat? Not a situation I want to find myself in.

I’ve actually been in that exact situation driving up to Tahoe on hwy 50 several years ago and they closed the road for a few hours until plows could clear the road. You had the option of turning around or hanging out for the road to open. Most people stayed and waited in heated vehicles. Not sure they would in an EV.

 

[coleAK]

Where is moar acceleration and speed needed? In my adventuring and around town driving, I’m almost never even close to using 100% of what the LC 200. Today I drove from 750 ft, up to tahoe, at over 7000ft in -10 temps, heater and defroster blaring. Easy work.

weird. Wonder why yours is so much worse than mine.

here are my last 10 tanks, lifted with 33s. Most of these are a mix of driving to the office, shuttling kids and trips to tahoe to ski. (Last two tanks are with Yakima box)

- 8/13/21, M: 291.375, G: 17.5, MPG: 16.65

- 8/15/21, M: 347.865, G: 19.1, MPG: 18.21

- 8/28/21, M: 286.545, G: 18.6, MPG: 15.41

- 9/9/21, M: 324.45, G: 20.1, MPG: 16.14

- 9/19/21, M: 293.055, G: 20.01, MPG: 14.65 - city

- 10/23/21, M: 274.05, G: 19.4, MPG: 14.13

- 10/30/21, M: 274.575, G: 18.97, MPG: 14.47

- 12/8/21, M: 298.935, G: 20.9, MPG: 14.30

- 12/19/21, M: 115.395, G: 7.8, MPG: 14.79

- 12/23/21, M: 295.155, G: 19.9, MPG: 14.83 Tahoe trip

I’ll admit it is tough for me to determine as I rarely drive in optimal conditions. In the summer I run 33” ATs (had KO2s, switching to AT3 or WP this summer). And 32” p metric studded Hakka 7 in the winter. My tires haven’t touched asphalt much since early October so when I’m running both boxes I’m losing efficiency due to snow and ice. When I have the RTT on top I’m heading far north and the roads up there are marginal at best. Yesterday I drove 80 miles, all highway (curvy but flat) going 45-65 and got 15 mph without the boxes on top. Also don’t have ETOH in our gas so that wouldn’t drop my mpg. In summary probably has to do with crappy Alaska roads and weather.

 

[sedonut]

Is this absolute? Meaning, to use the vehicle at all the temp needs to be in-range? Or does it simply cut battery range? Or damage the cells to operate outside of that temperature window?

It's my understanding it damages the batteries to charge or discharge outside a specific operating temperate range. There is a term when the batteries get too cold to charge, the vehicle becomes a "brick". It won't take a charge.

The vehicle is usually programmed to take care of the batteries before the occupant.

its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design

I think you could look up EV brick to find out more.

 

[coleAK]

Is this absolute? Meaning, to use the vehicle at all the temp needs to be in-range? Or does it simply cut battery range? Or damage the cells to operate outside of that temperature window?

The “freeze” temperature for Li cells is below -22 or -30F for at least 24 hrs sustained. I’ve been fine with my teslas when the high is -20F and the low is -35F.