Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts?

[eatSleepWoof]

I don't pretend to be an expert on the topic, and I only have my own experience to pull from, but the math in that graphic just doesn't compute to me. If fuel costs less, maintenance costs less, how can the long term cost be more? Are we comparing a $30k Accord to a $55k Polestar 2 here?

"Long term" needs to be defined before any such comparisons are made. That graphic shows a 6-year span, which is only "long term" to the TikTok generation

An average 200-series should run 20 years without issue. An average EV will have its battery replaced 2x in the same time frame. And the cost of those batteries is frequently more than the cost of the whole EV at the time of replacement. Some EVs may be more economical, some may not be; lots of variables in play.

 

[AnyMal]

We decided against having kids as well. I feel torn about it, I see us as prime candidates for procreating, we both have graduate degrees, we are fiscally responsible and have respectable incomes, we have good morals and are law abiding citizens, etc. etc. etc. I see what is outbreeding us 10:1 all around us on a daily basis and it's terrifying. Beyond personal bloodline continuation I almost feel responsible to reproduce simply to help tip the scales in the other direction against the mindless mouth breathers that are placing an insane draw on society now and for many generations to come. But I realize that we really can't do much to combat what is already in the works, and even with our genetic DNA and proper schooling, morals, etc. there's still no guarantee that our own offspring would be anything more than average. It's pretty depressing when you think about it and we've decided not to add to the strain on the system and our own personal finances and desires by adding another mouth to the planet. Some would say that our decision not to reproduce only furthers the downward spiral and that's true, but it's the choice we've made and I can live with that.




There's a giant glaring theme with all of these failed places that were once amazing, I don't need to say anything more as we all know the root issue and cause and it'll likely lead to the ban hammer if I go into any further detail. That said, we can only run to other places so many times before the cancer follows everywhere and spreads to all corners of the country. I fear we are very close to that ultimate downward spiral in many ways. I used to throughly enjoy living on the west coast and visiting annually but these days I do my best to limit my travel to the left coast.

OOF. I just felt this in my bones... 33, wife same age ( i know, i tried boys but shes an absolute angel)

While I want an AnyMal army of my own and society should only be so lucky to have more wise, discerning and overall pleasant comedic geniuses like myself, i just know they are going to be born into some seriously deficient planet. Even without consideration to climate, resources or anything not in the human domain.
My sis is pregnant with the second, and she is URGING me not to even bother. Its wild the costs, risks, and family burden a high income DINK household must go through to live like a middle class american family on a single income mere decades ago.

If we do, we may be doing it in Sweden. Not here. And if it weren't for the money, id be in the south of France already. I hold 3 passports...
If it werent also for the tyrannical regime destroying my birth place, id be off on the Caspian coast in Iran eating the finest caviar, with stars in the roof of my car.

Wouldn't even bother posting stuff like this unless i considered y'all friends... So here we are!
Updating my avatar so you can have a face to yell at.
Shoutout @grinchy shoutout @tbisaacs, shoutout @eatSleepWoof
Meetup soon @Tex68w or else!!!

Hello from my wife and I to my like minded friends here and wish yall all the best. Kids or not.
Imminent chinese EMP not-withstanding... But just in case, whats our 200 short wave radio channel?

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I missed how a (now traditional) EV vs ICE argument got into child-having-philosophy, but I'll chime in with my own 2pesos:

We're of a similar age, in a similar situation, with a similar background, self-view and thoughts on the world. Held the pessimistic view for the longest time, but changed our mind a few years ago. There are upsides to having children which cannot be quantified through $$ in the bank or the freedom that child-free life allows.

IMO the only way to combat the "mouth breathers" (and worse) is to set a better example. Be the change you want to see. And considering just how low the "average" bar really is, I'm pretty damn sure that anyone with two and a half brain cells can raise a child to be better than that average. We will certainly be putting in the work to ensure that happens: little eatSleepWoofer coming in mid-late July! Now where do I find an LX570-shaped crib...

 

[OregonLC]

I don't pretend to be an expert on the topic, and I only have my own experience to pull from, but the math in that graphic just doesn't compute to me. If fuel costs less, maintenance costs less, how can the long term cost be more? Are we comparing a $30k Accord to a $55k Polestar 2 here?

And I agree that tax credits and government manipulation shouldn't be relied on. But even if I didn't get the tax rebates I described in my post above, my car would have paid me back around two thirds of the purchase price based on fuel, maintenance and non-rebate tax savings. And yeah, I guess most people work for the man and can't write off their mileage. That honestly has been the biggest money savings in my use case. But even without it, I don't see how near-ZERO maintenance and CHEAPER fuel cost more over (any length of) time?

I think in that Wallet Genius article they were taking averages of ICE vs EV, not a specific make/model. In C&D they compared two Kona's, and the EV was 10% more to operate (not counting any rebates). Though the Lightning was 10% less to operate than an F150 ICE (which also assumes that you can actually buy a Lightning for MSRP, or at all even).

EV vs. Gas: Which Cars Are Cheaper to Own? - https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

As far as fuel prices go, at the end of 2022 the curve had inverted and it again costs less to drive an ICE 100 miles than an EV. Very much dependent, of course, on where you charge... and even what time of day you charge. Again, not disputing your specific experience. I just don't think it's categorically true, at least not from what I've read.

For maintenance, young ICE vehicles don't have much either. Oil changes 1-2x per year. Most everything else major is out now to around 100k (or 'lifetime', at least per the manufacturers). If you're comparing old : old then you'd have to factor in the cost of a replacement battery to other major maintenance items on the ICE.

If someone were truly interested in saving money, the most economical route is still the 'sh!tbox' sedan. A 90k mile Camry LE. 30 mpg. $5k of depreciation over the next 6 years. $9k acquisition. Low insurance. Another 100k of minimal maintenance.

Electric vehicles more expensive to fuel than gas-powered cars at end of 2022: consulting firm - https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/electric-vehicles-more-expensive-fuel-gas-powered-cars-end-2022-consulting-firm

 

[Tex68w]

I missed how a (now traditional) EV vs ICE argument got into child-having-philosophy, but I'll chime in with my own 2pesos:

We're of a similar age, in a similar situation, with a similar background, self-view and thoughts on the world. Held the pessimistic view for the longest time, but changed our mind a few years ago. There are upsides to having children which cannot be quantified through $$ in the bank or the freedom that child-free life allows.

IMO the only way to combat the "mouth breathers" (and worse) is to set a better example. Be the change you want to see. And considering just how low the "average" bar really is, I'm pretty damn sure that anyone with two and a half brain cells can raise a child to be better than that average. We will certainly be putting in the work to ensure that happens: little eatSleepWoofer coming in mid-late July! Now where do I find an LX570-shaped crib...

Fair enough.

 

[OregonLC]

There are upsides to having children which cannot be quantified through $$ in the bank or the freedom that child-free life allows.

IMO the only way to combat the "mouth breathers" (and worse) is to set a better example. Be the change you want to see. And considering just how low the "average" bar really is, I'm pretty damn sure that anyone with two and a half brain cells can raise a child to be better than that average. We will certainly be putting in the work to ensure that happens: little eatSleepWoofer coming in mid-late July! Now where do I find an LX570-shaped crib...

Nailed it. And congratulations.

 

[tbisaacs]

OOF. I just felt this in my bones... 33, wife same age ( i know, i tried boys but shes an absolute angel)

While I want an AnyMal army of my own and society should only be so lucky to have more wise, discerning and overall pleasant comedic geniuses like myself, i just know they are going to be born into some seriously deficient planet. Even without consideration to climate, resources or anything not in the human domain.
My sis is pregnant with the second, and she is URGING me not to even bother. Its wild the costs, risks, and family burden a high income DINK household must go through to live like a middle class american family on a single income mere decades ago.

If we do, we may be doing it in Sweden. Not here. And if it weren't for the money, id be in the south of France already. I hold 3 passports...
If it werent also for the tyrannical regime destroying my birth place, id be off on the Caspian coast in Iran eating the finest caviar, with stars in the roof of my car.

Wouldn't even bother posting stuff like this unless i considered y'all friends... So here we are!
Updating my avatar so you can have a face to yell at.
Shoutout @grinchy shoutout @tbisaacs, shoutout @eatSleepWoof
Meetup soon @Tex68w or else!!!

Hello from my wife and I to my like minded friends here and wish yall all the best. Kids or not.
Imminent chinese EMP not-withstanding... But just in case, whats our 200 short wave radio channel?

Nice face! Trying to decide if you look like what I thought you'd look like lol.

I dont know how like-minded y'all would consider me IRL—but that doesn't bother me. I really try to not live in an echo chamber, even if I don't agree with everyone's POV. Debate and diversity of thought are the spice of life.



Cheers

 

[coleAK]

"Long term" needs to be defined before any such comparisons are made. That graphic shows a 6-year span, which is only "long term" to the TikTok generation

An average 200-series should run 20 years without issue. An average EV will have its battery replaced 2x in the same time frame. And the cost of those batteries is frequently more than the cost of the whole EV at the time of replacement. Some EVs may be more economical, some may not be; lots of variables in play.

I’m not buying the theoretical battery replacement, that said no one will know for a while. My 8 year old model s is at just over 80k miles and hasn’t even lost 8%. My 5 year old model 3 hasn’t lost 2%. Being that I keep cars for a long time I’m very carful with charging. For daily drive charge at home on 24a, set it to max charge of 60-70% depending on time of year and where I’m going to drive, then recharge at 30-40%. Only charge to 80-100% rice before departure on long trips and only DC supercharge if absolutely necessary.

The Tesla loop model S’s were making it 250-300k miles entirely supercharging before battery replacements.

 

[AnyMal]

Nice face! Trying to decide if you look like what I thought you'd look like lol.

I dont know how like-minded y'all would consider me IRL—but that doesn't bother me. I really try to not live in an echo chamber, even if I don't agree with everyone's POV. Debate and diversity of thought are the spice of life.



Cheers

What Travis thought i looked like:



Or maybe this:

LOL, there is DEFINITELY post pandemic weight gain and hair loss LOL I gotta keep it 100...

 

[tbisaacs]

What Travis thought i looked like:



Or maybe this:
View attachment 3247872


LOL, there is DEFINITELY post pandemic weight gain and hair loss LOL I gotta keep it 100...

Lol. I’m an elder millennial who group in the Midwest. Nu-metal survivor. Actual photo of me and squad

 

[AnyMal]

Lol. I’m an elder millennial who group in the Midwest. Nu-metal survivor. Actual photo of me and squad

View attachment 3247888

Shoe game is on POINT boiiii

 

[04UZJ100]

If we're trying to manage expenses over the lifetime of the vehicle, perhaps the vehicle is not the right one for us.......?? Trying to make your money back on a new car purchase is an oxy-moron. So is believing that the human race will end because of a few degree temperature increase.

#popcorn

 

[Tex68w]

Lol. I’m an elder millennial who group in the Midwest. Nu-metal survivor. Actual photo of me and squad

View attachment 3247888

Ahh the days of JNCO's and wallet chains haha.

 

[AnyMal]

This is how i look today. Im teaching elementary school.

 

[a200]

Just for clarification are you guys talking about natural climate change or manmade climate change? There is a ton of space on the planet. Plenty of space for your kids. There is incredible abundance. Geoff Lawton has some good videos showing what we can do in the deserts. Innovation and working with natural systems would solve a lot of problems. It is a lot easier to make money by investing in a slave labor cobalt mine though.

 

[AnyMal]

Lol. I’m an elder millennial who group in the Midwest. Nu-metal survivor. Actual photo of me and squad

View attachment 3247888

Or reason #1,326,479 to not have kids.

@a200 Were talking about everything, and nothing.

 

[1Maverick]

I’m not buying the theoretical battery replacement, that said no one will know for a while. My 8 year old model s is at just over 80k miles and hasn’t even lost 8%. My 5 year old model 3 hasn’t lost 2%. Being that I keep cars for a long time I’m very carful with charging. For daily drive charge at home on 24a, set it to max charge of 60-70% depending on time of year and where I’m going to drive, then recharge at 30-40%. Only charge to 80-100% rice before departure on long trips and only DC supercharge if absolutely necessary.

The Tesla loop model S’s were making it 250-300k miles entirely supercharging before battery replacements.

Hey Cole, new Tesla batteries (at least Model 3/Y) now have new guideline: I would still do keep it closer to 85%


For regular use, we recommend keeping your car set within the 'Daily' range bracket, up to approximately 90%. Charging up to 100% is best saved for when you are preparing for a longer trip. You can adjust how full the battery charges from the charge settings menu.

Should I wait for the battery to fully deplete before charging?
Tesla uses lithium ion batteries so there is no memory effect, this means there is no need to deplete the battery before charging. We recommend plugging in as often as possible.

 

[tbisaacs]

Hey Cole, new Tesla batteries (at least Model 3/Y) now have new guideline: I would still do keep it closer to 85%


For regular use, we recommend keeping your car set within the 'Daily' range bracket, up to approximately 90%. Charging up to 100% is best saved for when you are preparing for a longer trip. You can adjust how full the battery charges from the charge settings menu.

Should I wait for the battery to fully deplete before charging?
Tesla uses lithium ion batteries so there is no memory effect, this means there is no need to deplete the battery before charging. We recommend plugging in as often as possible.

Yea my ‘21 model 3 came out of the box with 90% as the daily charge limit

 

[eatSleepWoof]

View attachment 3247900

This is how i look today. Im teaching elementary school.

Please put the glorious beard back on.

 

[AnyMal]

Yea my ‘21 model 3 came out of the box with 90% as the daily charge limit

Experience with that? Issues? Specs? Pics? Do you trickle charge or do you have a dual phase going to it?

The BMW i4 is somehow uglier and $30k more.