Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[Angelo1]

It's insane how many left leaning idiots have consumed Tennessee.

Please don’t remind me. These idiots move here for the no state income tax, low cost of living and a wealth of job opportunities. Then they try to change everything and vote for the same people. I left CA for CO and then the rest of CA followed me. So we moved to TN and now the whole west coast is moving in. Just can’t getaway from the crazies.

I actually miss the old democrat party. At least they weren’t so wacky. I grew up in the Bay Area and we loved going to SanFran. Now we can’t stand it and will never go back.

 

[AnyMal]

Please don’t remind me. These idiots move here for the no state income tax, low cost of living and a wealth of job opportunities. Then they try to change everything and vote for the same people. I left CA for CO and then the rest of CA followed me. So we moved to TN and now the whole west coast is moving in. Just can’t getaway from the crazies.

Lol are you me?

 

[AnyMal]

I forgot where i heard or saw this but basically every single retail trade is arbitrated by either your platform or a MM or even a low latency exchange node.

I dont trade anymore but Im tired of being a product in all regards and it looks like EVs are shaping up to me more of the same top down power bull**** death of the individual and power to the authority.

I like the cars actually but it seems more and more like your buying into a scheme each day. Yikes.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I forgot where i heard or saw this but basically every single retail trade is arbitrated by either your platform or a MM or even a low latency exchange node.

I dont trade anymore but Im tired of being a product in all regards and it looks like EVs are shaping up to me more of the same top down power bulls*** death of the individual and power to the authority.

I like the cars actually but it seems more and more like your buying into a scheme each day. Yikes.

Beyond becoming a "product" with EVs, what worries me just as much is giving up control of the vehicle.

I read an article the other day where the guy was complaining that an over the air update re/moved the defrost windshield button on his Tesla Model 3. It was "there," and then suddenly it wasn't, and he couldn't find it when he needed it. He eventually got the defrost working through voice control.

Imagine if the buttons on your microwave re-arranged themselves (or disappeared entirely) at will. Hell, the other day my PS4 received an update (somehow... I didn't install squat) which moved my custom-installed applications from the main applications section to way the hell down the page. Now the PS4 prioritizes the apps they WANT to prioritize, then they show you a bunch of ads for various crap within those apps, and THEN my apps are accessible below. Of course, I have no control over anything and have to scroll through their bs to get to what I need (and what was previously immediately accessible). I'm just about ready to replace the PS4 with a different device because of this crap.

I know myself well enough that if something along those lines happened with a vehicle I owned, one of two things would follow: selling the vehicle for pennies on the dollar the same day, or a 30 minute sledge-hammer exercise routine followed by a short flight off a tall cliff. I have zero tolerance for bs like that.

When I buy a product, I expect the product to remain as-is until I say otherwise, or until it breaks. Having a third party arbitrarily decide what's best for me is not going to happen. At that point I'd rather call a cab.

If I could pick & choose individual features to be installed over the air, I might be okay with it. But I know that's not sustainable from the vehicle manufacturer's point of view.

Similar kind of crap is slowly sneaking into ICE vehicles, too. Thankfully not to the same extent; at least, not yet.

 

[AnyMal]

Beyond becoming a "product" with EVs, what worries me just as much is giving up control of the vehicle.

I read an article the other day where the guy was complaining that an over the air update re/moved the defrost windshield button on his Tesla Model 3. It was "there," and then suddenly it wasn't, and he couldn't find it when he needed it. He eventually got the defrost working through voice control.

I know myself well enough that if something along those lines happened with a vehicle I owned, one of two things would follow: selling the vehicle for pennies on the dollar the same day, or a 30 minute sledge-hammer exercise routine followed by a short flight off a tall cliff. I have zero tolerance for bs like that.

When I buy a product, I expect the product to remain as-is until I say otherwise, or until it breaks. Having a third party arbitrarily decide what's best for me is not going to happen. At that point I'd rather call a cab.

If I could pick & choose individual features to be installed over the air, I might be okay with it. But I know that's not sustainable from the vehicle manufacturer's point of view.

Similar kind of crap is slowly sneaking into ICE vehicles, too. Thankfully not to the same extent; at least, not yet.

I was literally going to say i just want to give you money, you give me the vehicle and we walk away. But thats now impossible because of the cancer that is known as “tech”.

@coleAK i love you and I love 0-60 in 2 seconds but when this s*** below happens, you have to stand up or it gets the hose again, and again and again.

Tesla has a new feature that will disable your seat controls if you keep messing with them

Tesla has new seat motors with weird new features.

www.theverge.com

Everyday i pat myself on the back for getting my 2017. Its perfect, i can have a modern interior exterior, and no bs under the skin. I have said this before but 2016-2021 will be the best years for the LX as well as the LC for a long long time to come.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Everyday i pat myself on the back for getting my 2017. Its perfect, i can have a modern interior exterior, and no bs under the skin. I have said this before but 2016-2021 will be the best years for the LX as well as the LC for a long long time to come.

If I had the money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd pick up the cleanest 2020-2021 LX I could find and baby the crap out of it as a street-only vehicle. Probably end up with the last great SUV money will ever buy.

I'd add the same under-hood ARB twin I have now, 20" wheels with good tires, and a 12.5 LRA tank. Keep the rest stock and enjoy it as a perfect people hauler.

 

[coleAK]

I was literally going to say i just want to give you money, you give me the vehicle and we walk away. But thats now impossible because of the cancer that is known as “tech”.

@coleAK i love you and I love 0-60 in 2 seconds but when this s*** below happens, you have to stand up or it gets the hose again, and again and again.

Tesla has a new feature that will disable your seat controls if you keep messing with them

Tesla has new seat motors with weird new features.

www.theverge.com

Everyday i pat myself on the back for getting my 2017. Its perfect, i can have a modern interior exterior, and no bs under the skin. I have said this before but 2016-2021 will be the best years for the LX as well as the LC for a long long time to come.

I agree. I hate smart phones for the same reason. If i could pull it off with work I wouldn’t have a smart phone. After these last 2 years I dream of retiring early to an off grid cabin.

Almost everywhere we camp for more then 2 nights in the summer I plan around not having cell service.

I would also not own an EV as my only vehicle and when I do get an EV truck I’ll keep my ‘13 LX and ‘04 MB e class until they end or I do.

 

[Angelo1]

There are just as many of these douches rolling coal and trying to mow down cyclists in their deleted / 24” wheel lifted diesels. Every enthusiast segment has their share of morons that don’t represent all owners.

Signed,
—Not an elitist Tesla owner

I agree! I was a cyclist and I was fortunate to not have this happen to me

 

[Tex68w]

I stopped cycling because of that BS as well. I took a hit square in the back from a side mirror, the driver swerved over last second to hit me according to an eye witness. I've never understood the aggressiveness towards cyclist.

 

[TeCKis300]

Beyond becoming a "product" with EVs, what worries me just as much is giving up control of the vehicle.

I read an article the other day where the guy was complaining that an over the air update re/moved the defrost windshield button on his Tesla Model 3. It was "there," and then suddenly it wasn't, and he couldn't find it when he needed it. He eventually got the defrost working through voice control.

Imagine if the buttons on your microwave re-arranged themselves (or disappeared entirely) at will. Hell, the other day my PS4 received an update (somehow... I didn't install squat) which moved my custom-installed applications from the main applications section to way the hell down the page. Now the PS4 prioritizes the apps they WANT to prioritize, then they show you a bunch of ads for various crap within those apps, and THEN my apps are accessible below. Of course, I have no control over anything and have to scroll through their bs to get to what I need (and what was previously immediately accessible). I'm just about ready to replace the PS4 with a different device because of this crap.

I know myself well enough that if something along those lines happened with a vehicle I owned, one of two things would follow: selling the vehicle for pennies on the dollar the same day, or a 30 minute sledge-hammer exercise routine followed by a short flight off a tall cliff. I have zero tolerance for bs like that.

When I buy a product, I expect the product to remain as-is until I say otherwise, or until it breaks. Having a third party arbitrarily decide what's best for me is not going to happen. At that point I'd rather call a cab.

If I could pick & choose individual features to be installed over the air, I might be okay with it. But I know that's not sustainable from the vehicle manufacturer's point of view.

Similar kind of crap is slowly sneaking into ICE vehicles, too. Thankfully not to the same extent; at least, not yet.

There's a flip side to this. Like a smartphone, is going to have its pro and cons.

There's additions Tesla has pushed in their software updates since we've bought it. The car I own today is very much a better car than the one I bought new. Not just trivial things, but substantial material things. Car is literally faster 0-60. Got more range. Charges faster. Autopilot was great when I bought it on freeways, but now it's confident even on secondary roads. Got camping mode. It'll fart. All the little things add up to be considerable, and best of all has been free. I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said that's only the tip of the iceburg of new features its gotten. Which is why legacy car companies are struggling to keep up. Manufacturers and even reviewers benchmark a Tesla at a moment in time, but the reality is continuing to improve.

 

[bloc]

Beyond becoming a "product" with EVs, what worries me just as much is giving up control of the vehicle.

I read an article the other day where the guy was complaining that an over the air update re/moved the defrost windshield button on his Tesla Model 3. It was "there," and then suddenly it wasn't, and he couldn't find it when he needed it. He eventually got the defrost working through voice control.

Imagine if the buttons on your microwave re-arranged themselves (or disappeared entirely) at will. Hell, the other day my PS4 received an update (somehow... I didn't install squat) which moved my custom-installed applications from the main applications section to way the hell down the page. Now the PS4 prioritizes the apps they WANT to prioritize, then they show you a bunch of ads for various crap within those apps, and THEN my apps are accessible below. Of course, I have no control over anything and have to scroll through their bs to get to what I need (and what was previously immediately accessible). I'm just about ready to replace the PS4 with a different device because of this crap.

I know myself well enough that if something along those lines happened with a vehicle I owned, one of two things would follow: selling the vehicle for pennies on the dollar the same day, or a 30 minute sledge-hammer exercise routine followed by a short flight off a tall cliff. I have zero tolerance for bs like that.

When I buy a product, I expect the product to remain as-is until I say otherwise, or until it breaks. Having a third party arbitrarily decide what's best for me is not going to happen. At that point I'd rather call a cab.

If I could pick & choose individual features to be installed over the air, I might be okay with it. But I know that's not sustainable from the vehicle manufacturer's point of view.

Similar kind of crap is slowly sneaking into ICE vehicles, too. Thankfully not to the same extent; at least, not yet.

I used to be into jail breaking iPhones. On some level the cat & mouse game of jailbreak vs patch was entertaining and fun. Eventually that got too difficult so I moved to android for the flexibility in what I did to the device. Then, apple’s stance on security/privacy won me back, with no delusions about the impact of the “walled garden” or where my money is going.

I remember reading about the issues the guy rebuilding teslas had.. just getting a new key, for instance. And Tesla’s stance was EXACTLY the kind of utter bull**** I feel so strongly about.. with John Deere having the balls to tell buyers of their tractors they don’t own the machine, so they are forced to pay for official licensed diagnostic tools. Guess what.. most auto manufacturers want the same thing.

This has been one of my concerns about EVs and anything of that cost and importance to my daily life with that level of technology integration from day 1. As strongly as I feel, JD farm equipment only impacts me in an abstract way. But Tesla using their soaring market share and sense of superiority of mission to overcome concerns from people like me about what I am allowed to do with something *I* paid my money for, (difference from my phone being I literally need it to get to work, or the mountains). Yeah. Not for me.. as fun as a Plaid would be.

The trade-off for these “free” features that keep being added is also being tethered to the systems that fix “bugs”.. aka DIY people figuring out how to repair things themselves.

The problem for me? 97% of people would happily give up actual ownership of their vehicle if it would make fart noises.

For the record I despise apple’s stance on repair/replace procedures but they have been forced into at least a little movement in the right direction through publicity. Time will tell if that keeps happening. And at some point the privacy/security equation may shift toward something else.

Tesla doesn’t even have a PR department because they didn’t like the questions being asked of them.

 

[AnyMal]

I used to be into jail breaking iPhones. On some level the cat & mouse game of jailbreak vs patch was entertaining and fun. Eventually that got too difficult so I moved to android for the flexibility in what I did to the device. Then, apple’s stance on security/privacy won me back, with no delusions about the impact of the “walled garden” or where my money is going.

I remember reading about the issues the guy rebuilding teslas had.. just getting a new key, for instance. And Tesla’s stance was EXACTLY the kind of utter bulls*** I feel so strongly about.. with John Deere having the balls to tell buyers of their tractors they don’t own the machine, so they are forced to pay for official licensed diagnostic tools. Guess what.. most auto manufacturers want the same thing.

This has been one of my concerns about EVs and anything of that cost and importance to my daily life with that level of technology integration from day 1. As strongly as I feel, JD farm equipment only impacts me in an abstract way. But Tesla using their soaring market share and sense of superiority of mission to overcome concerns from people like me about what I am allowed to do with something *I* paid my money for, (difference from my phone being I literally need it to get to work, or the mountains). Yeah. Not for me.. as fun as a Plaid would be.

The trade-off for these “free” features that keep being added is also being tethered to the systems that fix “bugs”.. aka DIY people figuring out how to repair things themselves.

The problem for me? 97% of people would happily give up actual ownership of their vehicle if it would make fart noises.

For the record I despise apple’s stance on repair/replace procedures but they have been forced into at least a little movement in the right direction through publicity. Time will tell if that keeps happening. And at some point the privacy/security equation may shift toward something else.

Tesla doesn’t even have a PR department because they didn’t like the questions being asked of them.

This, exactly this. It only takes one brand to break an entire industry. You let them get away with it once for a fart noise and these monsters will devour you. Then there is no alternative soon enough across the board.

Apple, who needs to not **** with the iphone whatsoever and they know it, almost fumbled the goldenest goose of all time very hard with the CSAM scanning last year. Something absolutely no one asked for after years of parading your privacy as a tenant. If people hadnt flipped their s*** over that we would all be proper ****ed. Its a nasty nasty game and a very slippery slope.

Even if features are added @TeCKis300, I still dont know what im buying and i have no idea what i may be signing uo for.

Edit: and a sad part to all of this is EVs never got a simple mechanical era at all for people who may actually be able to work on them and everything else is proprietary software which actually objectively sucks from a variety of standpoints.

Here a channel who actually has grown up from a dorky 16 year old and has become quite knowledgeable in a lot of areas and continues to put effort into his content;

 

[tbisaacs]

I used to be into jail breaking iPhones. On some level the cat & mouse game of jailbreak vs patch was entertaining and fun. Eventually that got too difficult so I moved to android for the flexibility in what I did to the device. Then, apple’s stance on security/privacy won me back, with no delusions about the impact of the “walled garden” or where my money is going.

I remember reading about the issues the guy rebuilding teslas had.. just getting a new key, for instance. And Tesla’s stance was EXACTLY the kind of utter bulls*** I feel so strongly about.. with John Deere having the balls to tell buyers of their tractors they don’t own the machine, so they are forced to pay for official licensed diagnostic tools. Guess what.. most auto manufacturers want the same thing.

This has been one of my concerns about EVs and anything of that cost and importance to my daily life with that level of technology integration from day 1. As strongly as I feel, JD farm equipment only impacts me in an abstract way. But Tesla using their soaring market share and sense of superiority of mission to overcome concerns from people like me about what I am allowed to do with something *I* paid my money for, (difference from my phone being I literally need it to get to work, or the mountains). Yeah. Not for me.. as fun as a Plaid would be.

The trade-off for these “free” features that keep being added is also being tethered to the systems that fix “bugs”.. aka DIY people figuring out how to repair things themselves.

The problem for me? 97% of people would happily give up actual ownership of their vehicle if it would make fart noises.

For the record I despise apple’s stance on repair/replace procedures but they have been forced into at least a little movement in the right direction through publicity. Time will tell if that keeps happening. And at some point the privacy/security equation may shift toward something else.

Tesla doesn’t even have a PR department because they didn’t like the questions being asked of them.

Respect your view point and not trying to change your mind, but there is absolutely jail breaking / modding / hot rodding happening in the EV space.

Simple things: ingenex boost module to remove the nanny on the dual motor model 3. Instant +50hp can easily reversed for warranty work: BOOST 50 FOR TESLA MODEL 3 - https://ingenext.ca/products/boost-50

My favorite: Salvage to Savage built a 900hp Chevy C10 squad body with Tesla motors, battery, inverter and holly (yes that holly) software

The next 10 years are gonna be wild.

 

[AnyMal]

Respect your view point and not trying to change your mind, but there is absolutely jail breaking / modding / hot rodding happening in the EV space.

Simple things: ingenex boost module to remove the nanny on the dual motor model 3. Instant +50hp can easily reversed for warranty work: BOOST 50 FOR TESLA MODEL 3 - https://ingenext.ca/products/boost-50

My favorite: Salvage to Savage built a 900hp Chevy C10 squad body with Tesla motors, battery, inverter and holly (yes that holly) software

The next 10 years are gonna be wild.

To be honest thats cool but not the point really. The point is it can be patched in 30s whenever they feel like it OTA and against your will. Maybe not that specific thing but lets not pretend like there is an actual avenue here of ownership of the product and software. JD has a scene much like this and theyre getting sued out the ass. Same thing all the other technology and software brands do. Dont mistake an industry in its infancy that is too busy to chase these things with an opportunity. In their eyes this is harming their business to sell faster models and you will be sued for even thinking of putting out a commercial product like this in the future. If perhaps there is black market hacks and things of that nature sure, but if you ever put that in your jailbroken phone with sensitive data, you will surely know better than to put it in a vehicle your life depends on.

There is no positive future in this sort of game. And top of that I wouldn’t put my hope into legislation coming to the rescue for the consumer.

 

[bloc]

Respect your view point and not trying to change your mind, but there is absolutely jail breaking / modding / hot rodding happening in the EV space.

Simple things: ingenex boost module to remove the nanny on the dual motor model 3. Instant +50hp can easily reversed for warranty work: BOOST 50 FOR TESLA MODEL 3 - https://ingenext.ca/products/boost-50

My favorite: Salvage to Savage built a 900hp Chevy C10 squad body with Tesla motors, battery, inverter and holly (yes that holly) software

The next 10 years are gonna be wild.

Tesla has zero interest in shutting down a project like that. But they have real interest in and ability to shut down non-approved shops doing repair work to keep people‘s cars on the road.

I’m also excited to see what comes out of the EV mod space but holly has very little to do with the entire business model of selling normal EV cars to normal people for normal daily use.

 

[TeCKis300]

I get it, it's the principle of it. Don't like things, anything outside ones control.

As a long time homebrew, hacker, jailbreaker, I'm fine with the current arrangement with Tesla. I get agreeable value for my dollar. Continuing value in updates and low operational cost. Sure, there's the possibility things will flip. If that happens, I'll move on. Like Googles 'Don't be Evil' slogan, Facebook 'It's Free and Always Will Be', or Apple's 'Think Different' (but not too different), I'll re-evaluate if they still meet my needs. To your point, dynamics IMO have turned with those 3 tech companies. But because the balance is still favorable enough on my terms, I'll still use their products. I'm not going to self impose a handicap on account of some future FUD.

 

[bloc]

I get it, it's the principle of it. Don't like things, anything outside ones control.

As a long time homebrew, hacker, jailbreaker, I'm fine with the current arrangement with Tesla. I get agreeable value for my dollar. Continuing value in updates and low operational cost. Sure, there's the possibility things will flip. If that happens, I'll move on. Like Googles 'Don't be Evil' slogan, Facebook 'It's Free and Always Will Be', or Apple's 'Think Different' (but not too different), I'll re-evaluate if they still meet my needs. To your point, dynamics IMO have turned with those 3 tech companies. But because the balance is still favorable enough on my terms, I'll still use their products. I'm not going to self impose a handicap on account of some future FUD.

I’ve already cut out one of those tech companies and am in the long, slow the process of cutting another out. The one that remains hits your needs/terms point for me.

But I’ve been working on my own cars for too long to buy in to what I’ve seen of teslas opinion of people like me.

So that this is a little less off topic.. I guess rivian is too new to get a sense of how they’ll approach repairs?

 

[TeCKis300]

I’ve already cut out one of those tech companies and am in the long, slow the process of cutting another out. The one that remains hits your needs/terms point for me.

But I’ve been working on my own cars for too long to buy in to what I’ve seen of teslas opinion of people like me.

So that this is a little less off topic.. I guess rivian is too new to get a sense of how they’ll approach repairs?

Unfortunately, I think this is a part of these future paradigms, and the nature of connected updatable technology. Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you and there's aspects I don't like. A companies agenda may not always be aligned with the end user, but it is in their interest to generally keep consumers happy.

Rivian won't likely be idyllic in this regard.

The problem I see with them, at least for the near future, is the availability of knowledge and parts to repair, let alone mod. Tesla's only just gotten over that hurdle. Not Toyota or the big-3 yet, but there's now plenty of Tesla sales volume, parts, aftermarket, and internet hive mind knowledge. The Cybertruck will have some commonality but also new things.

Makes me wonder how the 300-series sales and enthusiast market will go in the states.

 

[bloc]

Unfortunately, I think this is a part of these future paradigms, and the nature of connected updatable technology. Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you and there's aspects I don't like. A companies agenda may not always be aligned with the end user, but it is in their interest to generally keep consumers happy.

Rivian won't likely be idyllic in this regard.

The problem I see with them, at least for the near future, is the availability of knowledge and parts to repair, let alone mod. Tesla's only just gotten over that hurdle. Not Toyota or the big-3 yet, but there's now plenty of Tesla sales volume, parts, aftermarket, and internet hive mind knowledge. The Cybertruck will have some commonality but also new things.

Makes me wonder how the 300-series sales and enthusiast market will go in the states.

I guess that’s the core of my issue. Most “Consumers” are happy with fart noises and don’t see the big picture of having a car with a drivetrain theoretically capable of such a long service life but a likely future where repairs of the other technology failures will justify removing the car from the road.

Agree, I don’t see much incentive for new players to buck the trend here.

 

[Adrenaline6]

A companies agenda may not always be aligned with the end user, but it is in their interest to generally keep consumers happy.

I agree about the first part of that statement, but only partially with the second part. It's ultimately bean counting on what they can get away without losing too much market share. If the statement was totally true, then Apple would not have their NFC locked down for other app's to use. They willfully inconvenience the customer to ensure more market share.

I agree with bloc about ownership. If I bought it, I expect to fully own it. Apple has been doing this to the customer from the get go. You cannot legally install an Apple OS on non Apple hardware. Period. As more tech makes there way into EV's and everything else for that matter. All these companies are moving towards the Apple way of doing things to "trap" the consumer into their eco system of products. They do it slowly and calculatedly. Once they know they have the consumer, they slowly tighten it down. Most people don't notice it, and most who do just deal with it like the sheep they are (and call it even cause they got fart noises)