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Rim spinning or Tire spinning

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by LandCruiserPhil, Mar 12, 2004.

  1. LandCruiserPhil

    LandCruiserPhil Peter Pan Syndrome Supporting Vendor

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    New tires (BFG T/A) and wheels (Welds) with 18lbs air spinning the rims inside the tires. Makes for a wonderful ride back home with large tires.

    Never experienced this issue before and have run lots of different combinations under a lot worst conditions. Any thoughts, fixes, tricks or something I cant deal with this.

    Phil
     
  2. Junk

    Junk

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    Uh, provide some details. It sounds like you were on the road with these at 18 psi. Or were you wheeling, they spun, then you headed home?
     
  3. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Phil,

    Have had some experiences with this. I'm assuming you verified it by putting chalk marks on the sidewalls at the weights or valve stem, then driving and slamming the brakes a few times. This will help your case with the tire shop so they'll help.

    Here are the ways we considered dealing with it:

    dry apply the tires without the normal lube (didn't work)
    rough up the rim lip (I wouldn't allow this and didn't feel it appropriate)
    new tires (didn't work)
    new tires of a different brand (didn't work)

    At this point, the shop and I agreed the issue was some quirk of the rim lip shape. As they were factory Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero alloys there may have been a rim lip shape that also conformed to European rim standards that made it susceptible to this issue. I never finished investigating this (turns out there are several rim lip shapes around the world) as the next fix worked perfectly. Went to a farm store and got some "bead tack" they use to mount tractor tires that prevents this movement with that high torque application. Fairly common product in that industry. It's self vulcanizing rubber in a can and forms a hi-tack surface that does not create issues for future tire work (remounting, etc). The tire shop had used it before and was sure it would work - they just happened to be out of it and I was leaving on a trip. Worked like a charm and those tires never moved again even at low trail pressures. I'd been having these issues merely driving on the freeway for long distances. As you note, it was incredible how bad the ride was with 4 imbalanced tires.

    Anyhow, you won't regret this approach. If you can't find it where you live, I'll call the shop and post the precise brand and contact info Monday.

    DougM
     
  4. LandCruiserPhil

    LandCruiserPhil Peter Pan Syndrome Supporting Vendor

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    Aired down on arrival just played around nothing serious aired up on dirt and wobbled home. Tires/wheels balanced 3 weeks prior when rebalance 1-2.5 oz off 1-3.5 off with no loss of weight. Estimated vehicle weigh 6500lbs tire rated at 3250lbs @55psi.

    Phil
     
  5. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    And your answer to the question "How did you verify the tire was spinning on the rim?" was.............?

    Because if you haven't then it opens up the equal possibility that your compressor (or someone's) is introducing water into the tire due to not having a water trap, or not emptying it. I've also seen this cause knotty balancing problems that were only resolved when one tire was broken down and the water was discovered.

    DougM
     
  6. LandCruiserPhil

    LandCruiserPhil Peter Pan Syndrome Supporting Vendor

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    Good point. Air source is co2 in Arizona so I think I’m safe with the chance of water.
    The self vulcanizing rubber sound like the end all to rim spinning – Glad I ask

    Phil
     
  7. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Phil,

    How did you verify the tires were spinning on the rims?

    DougM
     
  8. ginericLC

    ginericLC Wagon Wheeler! SILVER Star

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    Are these the new BFGs with the rim guard? I've had problems on and off with the rim guard getting moisture trapped in it and then when the tire flexs it puts the moisture between the tire and rim. The rim guards also seem to be a magnet for dirt and small rocks. I've had these same problems with both the ATs and the MTs. And on both stock rims (steel) and my current aftermarket alloys. The only solution I've found thus far is to not air down as much as that reduces the flex.
     
  9. sea2skydad

    sea2skydad

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    Doug,

    When you say low trail pressures, how low are you talking? This has been a source of aggravation for me in the past and other than bead locks I wasn't aware of this fix. Sure appreciate the info. Thanks, Greg.
     
  10. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Greg,

    I'll typically use 15-20 psi on the trail, dependent upon the trail's surface and the tire I'm running. In snow, I've gone to 12 which paid off, but made me nervous because you can no longer see tire damaging items like stumps or rocks. I've never done the really really low pressures routinely as I've never had oversized tires that could take it.

    Phil - still wondering how you verified tire slippage was the issue??

    DougM