Clean install. Makes my work look like a 5 year old does my build. Lol
Builds Reconstruction after rollover - building The Champ 2. (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter baldilocks
- Start date
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Nice job Steve, it super tite in there getting everything to fit around the coil wire and all, and you got the the third hose in there for your brakes too.
Excellent. I sent Wild Horses a fair amount of business during my '69 Bronco build. They were always a good vendor to work with in my experience.
That's a nice looking reservoir. I ended up buying mine from Billy on Pirate, the guy that made the Hellfire knuckles.
I just noticed you got rid of the Wilwood MC. Surprising to see that 2 failed on you. So you wouldn't recommend them if I go with the hydroboost conversion? That would save me $150 if I buy a Napa version. They sure do look nice though!
I just noticed you got rid of the Wilwood MC. Surprising to see that 2 failed on you. So you wouldn't recommend them if I go with the hydroboost conversion? That would save me $150 if I buy a Napa version. They sure do look nice though!
- Thread starter
- #385
Another member converted to hydro boost with the same parts after seeing my thread. We have spoken a few times and he has had no problems with the same Wilwood MC. Wilwood was supportive enough to send me a second replacement which is still in the box in a shelf. After killing two of their MC’s I wanted to try something different.
So far this “Corvette style” iron MC from Napa is holding up but doesn’t have much time on it yet. Both Wilwood’s I ran showed signs of deterioration almost immediately as noted by the black sediment build up in the reservoir from deteriorated seals.
After Wilwood inspected these MC’s they suggested that it was being side loaded based on the fact that there were marks favoring one side of the forward piston. I call hogwash because the booster contains three separate shafts and the there s a spring between the rear piston and the forward piston. Every thing mechanical checked out good including my brake pedal.
If the iron MC fails I will send this booster back for a replacement. It was a new booster not rebuilt.
I don’t play favorites but will give credit where credit is due. I got this kit from Matt Sweeting at Sweet Performance (Power Brake Service). He is a one man show so delivery time was slow and he’s not always easy to contact by phone. I feel he knows his business.
In 2012 I put hydro boost on a different rig and these parts I bought from a company, also in SoCal, called VanCo. This company has been around for a long time and also knows their business. This is the company that knows how to rework the the booster so it will flow fluid more freely.
So, those are two good companies to get a purpose a built kit and lots of help from. I think that if I were to do it again I’d go back to VanCo though.
- Thread starter
- #386
The hydro assist install is finished at least until real world testing proves me wrong. After getting the larger reservoir bolted to the engine and all plumbed next came the hydraulic cylinder from West Texas Off-road home of the Redneck Ram.
Their ram and hose kit isn’t the cheapest way to go but their ram is made in house and they carry all repair/rebuild parts.
After measuring numerous times and reading some old threads here on Mud I decided to purchase a 10” ram. It does use up 100% of the available space on the tie rod and maximizes turning radius. In fact, the 10” ram pushed the steering angle a little farther than my current steering stops adjustment would allow even though I measured a full 5” of tie rod travel each direction prior to making the order.
I split the difference by placing three 5/8” washers on the chrome piston as an external limiter to 9.75” total stroke and adjusted the steering stops on the knuckles to match. The steering box pitman arm makes a large arc and has no problem “out stroking” the 10” ram.
The steering box was rebuilt at Redhead and upgraded with the 105 sector shaft as well ported for hydro assist. They put a Made in USA sticker on the gear box which cracked me up but I left it be.
A note about hoses; WTOR makes very HD hoses with a working pressure of 4750 psi and choosing length is up to your choice of routing. The 90* fitting that they crimp onto one end of the hoses has a short radius. When attached to the forward port of the steering gear the short radius won’t reach completely around and past the front of the steering box. It would probably work because the crimped portion of the fitting doesn’t contact the the gear box until it’s threaded on most of the way but I didn’t like it. Add to this the fact that I ordered one hose 37” and the other 43” but receive two hoses 43” plus. I went to a local shop and had two hoses made using power steering hose which has a lower burst rating but our pumps are good for only 1500psi anyway. The 90* fittings in the new hoses are larger and have no problem clearing the front of the steering box.
I’d like to thank @Broski for some tips as I went through this install. The shiny square “U” bolt that I used and bolted to the frame as a hose guide is basically a copy of what he did. I routed the hose from the top fitting (pressure for right turns) across the top of the steering gear box rearward and then down forward of the engine mount. The hose from the forward port is routed toward the passenger side and then makes an immediate turn aft running parallel to the frame and then joins the other hose down through the guide.
A couple other things to keep in mind are to measure for hoses with the frame supported and the front axle completely dropped. Also, the fitting on the ram fitting that is directly below the oil pan can punch a hole in the oil pan if both front springs are compress far enough simultaneously and the bump stops don’t stop axle up travel first. For this reason I bought a 90 that threads into the ram rather than attaching a 90 to the straight union that WTOR sends installed in the ram. This gained me an inch more distance between the fitting and the oil pan.
I’ve only taken it for a short test drive. My initial impression is that pump modifications to encourage more GPM flow are not necessary. At idle when turning with the vehicle stationary the steering rate may be a bit slow but at least it’s possible where as before turning with vehicle stopped was a struggle at best. Once rpm is up over idle I notice no appreciable difference in steering speed but an obvious improvement in power assist. I drove it down the country road and yanked on the steering wheel like as if to dodge something in the road and this was not problem although feedback from the road is pretty much nonexistent. The wheels will try to return to center with no input at the steering wheel but not completely
My major concern was how my brake hydro booster would play with this new hydraulic cylinder but, there again, I notice no appreciable difference in the small amount of pavement testing I’ve done.
Their ram and hose kit isn’t the cheapest way to go but their ram is made in house and they carry all repair/rebuild parts.
After measuring numerous times and reading some old threads here on Mud I decided to purchase a 10” ram. It does use up 100% of the available space on the tie rod and maximizes turning radius. In fact, the 10” ram pushed the steering angle a little farther than my current steering stops adjustment would allow even though I measured a full 5” of tie rod travel each direction prior to making the order.
I split the difference by placing three 5/8” washers on the chrome piston as an external limiter to 9.75” total stroke and adjusted the steering stops on the knuckles to match. The steering box pitman arm makes a large arc and has no problem “out stroking” the 10” ram.
The steering box was rebuilt at Redhead and upgraded with the 105 sector shaft as well ported for hydro assist. They put a Made in USA sticker on the gear box which cracked me up but I left it be.
A note about hoses; WTOR makes very HD hoses with a working pressure of 4750 psi and choosing length is up to your choice of routing. The 90* fitting that they crimp onto one end of the hoses has a short radius. When attached to the forward port of the steering gear the short radius won’t reach completely around and past the front of the steering box. It would probably work because the crimped portion of the fitting doesn’t contact the the gear box until it’s threaded on most of the way but I didn’t like it. Add to this the fact that I ordered one hose 37” and the other 43” but receive two hoses 43” plus. I went to a local shop and had two hoses made using power steering hose which has a lower burst rating but our pumps are good for only 1500psi anyway. The 90* fittings in the new hoses are larger and have no problem clearing the front of the steering box.
I’d like to thank @Broski for some tips as I went through this install. The shiny square “U” bolt that I used and bolted to the frame as a hose guide is basically a copy of what he did. I routed the hose from the top fitting (pressure for right turns) across the top of the steering gear box rearward and then down forward of the engine mount. The hose from the forward port is routed toward the passenger side and then makes an immediate turn aft running parallel to the frame and then joins the other hose down through the guide.
A couple other things to keep in mind are to measure for hoses with the frame supported and the front axle completely dropped. Also, the fitting on the ram fitting that is directly below the oil pan can punch a hole in the oil pan if both front springs are compress far enough simultaneously and the bump stops don’t stop axle up travel first. For this reason I bought a 90 that threads into the ram rather than attaching a 90 to the straight union that WTOR sends installed in the ram. This gained me an inch more distance between the fitting and the oil pan.
I’ve only taken it for a short test drive. My initial impression is that pump modifications to encourage more GPM flow are not necessary. At idle when turning with the vehicle stationary the steering rate may be a bit slow but at least it’s possible where as before turning with vehicle stopped was a struggle at best. Once rpm is up over idle I notice no appreciable difference in steering speed but an obvious improvement in power assist. I drove it down the country road and yanked on the steering wheel like as if to dodge something in the road and this was not problem although feedback from the road is pretty much nonexistent. The wheels will try to return to center with no input at the steering wheel but not completely
My major concern was how my brake hydro booster would play with this new hydraulic cylinder but, there again, I notice no appreciable difference in the small amount of pavement testing I’ve done.
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- Thread starter
- #388
I put the taller sway bar brackets on few years ago and it looks like they are tall enough to allow me to run the bar for road trips when the roof rack is in use.
Just be realllllly careful when hard lock turning. The hydro puts massive pressure on the balls and birfs. You can easily explode that birf now. I usually hit full lock on a turn and hear that squeal and back off it about 1/2-1inch from hard lock to protect the birfs. especially since you are using up more turning radius then normal.
- Thread starter
- #390
I set it up so the ram is maxed at the point where the steering stops contact their targets.
- Thread starter
- #392
Yes, and WTOR applies a $70 extra charge for a ram over 8” and it will arrive unpainted.
Steve great Wright up and excellent job on your hydro install, For reference I ran the front hose straight up ( vertical ) in that position there is no interference with the steering box, it goes right over the top and joins up with the hose coming out of the top.
- Thread starter
- #394
I tried that route for the forward hose but the hose wasn’t long enough to follow the other hose up an over the group of hoses associated with the pump and reservoir.
With a nine inch ram you will be protecting your birfs a little over stock and why I went with the 9" ram, that being said I don't know how the ram can exploded the Birfs, only the driver giving to much skinny pedal can do that.
full lock and skinny with hydro pushing extra pressure to collapse the stops = boom
I ordered the 90 degree elbows too so I can hopefully prevent it from smashing into my oil pan. Only cost $5.50 for 2 at redneck.
- Thread starter
- #398
The replacement tube bender came a few weeks ago while I was knee deep in the hydro-assist project. I did what I call creative thinking here and this is what I came up with. Today I will burn all in.
What size tube is that Steve ?
- Thread starter
- #400
1.75 x .120
