Really BAD noise at starting (1 Viewer)

[CrackerBob]

93 LC with almost 200k made a terrible noise when I turned the key a few months ago. Tried a few times and didn't start, just made the loud, bad noise. Friend said try taking it from park to neutral and after a few more tries of the key it finally didn't make the noise and started (tho I kinda doubt the P to N made any difference)
Several months later and only did the noise a little once but started. Now back to the noise again anytime I try to start....
Changed out the starter and no difference. Old starter looks good and the flywheel teeth I can touch feel fine.
I've had this truck for years and it's been great - I'd hate to lose it. Any help here to get it back on the road would be much appreciated.

 

[greentruck]

The starter solenoid contacts are replaceable, often enough that many people eventually do them as a PM. You've got enough miles that could be your issue. Failure of the starter to fully engage the flywheel will cause nasty sounds, i.e. the solenoid is not able to throw the gear far enough to fully engage, so perhaps that's all your problem is?

 

[george_tlc]

Changed out the starter and no difference.

Changed out with WHAT starter? A 'new' toyota reman unit or some autostore clone?

I had horrific noises coming from my starter (original) that I'd replaced the contacts/solenoid on many years ago. I opened it up and contacts/solenoid looked good, replaced them anyway, starter still made horrific gnashing sounds on startup (not everytime - but often enough). Got a toyota reman unit from cdan and it's been in our 80 for over a year and NEVER had the noise again.

So, it may not be contacts/solenoid, but something in the throwout mechanism that is sticking. I opened my original up and the grease was dry etc. I've repacked fresh grease in there and also cleaned up the commutator (as per the FSM), and I've kept the starter as a spare for when the reman dies in 5 - 10+ years...

cheers,
george.

 

[CrackerBob]

Thanks for the replies. I actually rebuilt the starter about 50k miles ago with a kit from CDan, and the starter I stuck in there is an after-market out of my 96 LX.
I don't know for sure it's even the starter making the noise....

 

[george_tlc]

Thanks for the replies. I actually rebuilt the starter about 50k miles ago with a kit from CDan, and the starter I stuck in there is an after-market out of my 96 LX.
I don't know for sure it's even the starter making the noise....

There has been situations where folk have used aftermarket starters and had gnashing noises. I'd seriously consider a TOYOTA reman unit.

Why don't you record a sound clip of it doing it, and those of us that have had the starter make the noise can confirm or not if it is the same noise.

It should sound very loud and very nasty and will last the time you have the key in the crank position.

Bit of searching will find a few such threads...

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/490851-starter-making-loud-noises.html


cheers,
george.

 

[CrackerBob]

Thanks for the link, George. Just to make sure it's not the starter I just finished taking the oem starter out of the LC and putting it in the LX. Starts perfectly, so I see no reason to buy a reman starter - the LC starter works fine.
No idea how to post a sound clip, but believe me, it's a horrible noise.
I'm hoping I don't have to have it towed to a mechanic just to find out what the problem is.

 

[george_tlc]

If the horrible noise only occurs during the cranking time and goes away when your stop cranking or after the motor has started and makes no noises if you drive around etc, then I'd assume the starter (especially the pinion) is not meshing correctly. It may mesh ok on one flywheel and not on another due to how the teeth have worn over time.

With the starter out of the 80 I'd get up in there and look at the condition of the flywheel teeth. Rotate the motor a full 360 (segment at a time) and check the teeth on each segment of the flywheel just to make sure all it healthy.

The sound that the starter gnashing makes is LOUD, somewhat high pitched (basically the starter motor rpm as the teeth grate across the flywheel teeth.

If you've got a camcorder, just video with sound while cranking and then post it up on youtube.

cheers,
george.

 

[Offroads4x4]

This sounds like your starter bendix. The gear end that slides out to meet your flywheel sticking. This is a common starter problem like the contacts and plunger.

Then you replaced it with a Reman one and get the same problem.

I would look to see if your flywheel teeth are good as stated above. Next look to see if you by chance mis-aligned it putting it in. Next check your bell housing for a crack by the two bolts that the starter uses. Maybe it took a hard hit.

You could also have a starter shop bench test it.

Just some ideas to look at.

 

[CrackerBob]

Many thanks for the replies.... At this point there's two starters that work perfectly in the 96LX - but when either of those starters are in the 93LC the truck does not start and only makes a horrible noise.
So I strongly doubt it's the starter.
Here's a picture of the flywheel on the 93 LC. I'll try to get a video with the noise up on youtube in the next couple of days...

 

[Kernal]

If this was just one starter with a history of grinding you might think it had something to do with the starter drive assembly i.e.: from a broken, weak, or even incorrect internal spring. That could leave the pinion gear sticking out after the engine started causing the teeth of the flexplate to grind against the teeth of the pinion gear until the pinion gear was bumped back out of the way?? With two starters doing the same thing, IDK. FWIW here's a couple of photos showing a partially disassembled drive assembly out of a 2.0kW Denso starter (28100-66060). The pinion gear is attached to the splined end of the shaft, held in place by a small C-ring.

 

[george_tlc]

Many thanks for the replies.... At this point there's two starters that work perfectly in the 96LX - but when either of those starters are in the 93LC the truck does not start and only makes a horrible noise.
So I strongly doubt it's the starter.
Here's a picture of the flywheel on the 93 LC. I'll try to get a video with the noise up on youtube in the next couple of days...

You need to rotate the engine 360 deg to check the entire flywheel condition - not just the few teeth that you have in the picture. You need to do this.

Does the engine even turn over - did you ever have someone look at the pulleys/fan etc while cranking with the horrific noise to verify it was at least turning over?

Video of the engine bay while cranking would be a great thing to help.

cheers,
george.

 

[Django]

Hi mate I currently have this exact problem . Did you manage to get it sorted out . I have just ordered a new starter motor and waiting for it to arrive . I hope the new starter fixes the problem . Cheers

 

[Therealtotodile]

Any updates here? I am also having the most horrendous sound at cold start. Sounds like what @george_tlc is describing. Only while cranking, sometime it stops the truck from turning over and next key turn usually makes no noise and it starts up.

The sound is no joke though. I have an aftermarket(autozone) starter with swapped internals. Sounds like I need to take it to my starter guy and check out both my flywheel and the pinion gear for damage.

It happened first a couple months ago, and has become more and more common over time.

 

[Therealtotodile]

Just wanted to update... Got the s*** autozone out and replaced with the 20.kw denso. Sounds completely different than the autozone one. No no-starts or gnashing yet.
However, I could see 3 chipped teeth on the flywheel, and just on the quarter of it that's visible. There are probably more....

Anyone ever had to replace a flywheel because of an autozone starter?