It sounds like an electrical problem. How about starter contacts? Have they been checked out OK?
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- #22
Starter functions.
It is definitely electrical. We just haven't solved the puzzle yet.
It is definitely electrical. We just haven't solved the puzzle yet.
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- #23
It's possible. I have sold a couple ignition switches but I do not know what the symptoms were. I suggested that while they were robbing parts of Beno's truck that they take the switch. I don't think they did.
Dan, just for the process of elimination, can you swap in another MAF and see if it helps? If it is not that I'd look almost exclusively at the fuel pump (pump, signal or wiring itself). Again, just for process of elimination it would take like two minutes to verify or deny that one possibility.
I'll say one thing that I know is "right" with this problem is the group of fine folks you have with you to help here.
Riad, just to help the problem solving process, if it was starter contacts the starter would either not start at all or it would start but not stop when the key was released. I do not think that they are having "starting" problems; I think that they are having "running" problems. Again, just to try to help the problem solving process.
IIRC, Dan noted that it is getting a good 14 volts whenever it is actually running. Might be good thing though to watch the voltage right up to that stall point - if it holds 14 volts to that point, and then totally drops down to 10 or something than I think another alternator is in the picture. Otherwise, if it gets a good 14 volts right through the stall point, it is prolly not the alternator. Hope that helps.
"One more bit of info: when the vehicle first konked out it was displaying a charge-lamp. They did discover and repair a bad connection at the alternator and when the engine does run it's putting out ~14 volts."
Have they tried isolating the alternator out of the picture and running purely on the battery?
Have they tried isolating the alternator out of the picture and running purely on the battery?
Yes, that happened to me too. Years ago, when I had an accord. I was going to suggest the alternator next. I wonder if the bad connection that was discovered earlier had introduced the real bad alternator. Losing dash lights is a good indication of that. If it ain't the alternator and/or the starter, then I give up
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- #30
I Don't know.
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- #31
Well it's off the mountain, albiet not under it's own power. It's going to get a ride back to town on a tow truck and we'll be able to work on it under better conditions.
Thanks to all who have chimed in and keep thinking about it. We still need to fix it.
Thanks to all who have chimed in and keep thinking about it. We still need to fix it.
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That's the important thing, getting the truck and driver off the mountain. That's the nice thing about wheeling in the Toyota clubs. Other clubs may have left it and taken the driver home leaving it for him to get it down the mountain later.
I'm #2 on wondering if it's got alarm - factory or otherwise as the headlight circuit is typically involved to flash lights/honk horn as well as an engine cutoff feature. Primary suspect to me since I've never, ever heard of these symptoms on a Cruiser before and I've been on 80 websites for over 10 years.
Also, to clarify - are you saying dash lights (instrument backlighting) go OFF along with the headlights when this occurs? Or are you saying dash lights come ON (idiot lights) when this happens?
I'm sure you guys will think of this, but I'd also stand there with a can of starter fluid spray and when the 'thing' happens try to keep it from shutting down by instantly spraying into the ol gal's throat. Obviously, if you can get it to keep running on starter fluid you've eliminated the entire spark system and its electrics from your search and can focus on the fuel side of things. I am not sure what impact spraying it through the AFM will have or if you'll have to jury rig something so you can spray it directly into the throttle body (does incorrect/no flow in AFM signal the engine to shut off??). But that's a great way to reduce the search.
Without pulling the fuel pump, you could also attach a test light to the wires atop the fuel access plate that will show if the fuel pump shuts down instantly when it happens, or if the fuel pump's still pumping for a half second afterward (would indicate the fuel pump circuit is operating normally and shuts down AFTER the engine stops using fuel rather than before).
I'd also take a close look at the fuel pressure modulator/regulator since it's so easy to see right there at the front of the fuel rail. Any way to bypass it easily? Can you park another 80 next to the disabled one and run a rubber fuel line from the good engine to the bad one's fuel rail?
Just thinking aloud in a 'stream of consciousness' fashion after a rockin good bike ride....
DougM
Also, to clarify - are you saying dash lights (instrument backlighting) go OFF along with the headlights when this occurs? Or are you saying dash lights come ON (idiot lights) when this happens?
I'm sure you guys will think of this, but I'd also stand there with a can of starter fluid spray and when the 'thing' happens try to keep it from shutting down by instantly spraying into the ol gal's throat. Obviously, if you can get it to keep running on starter fluid you've eliminated the entire spark system and its electrics from your search and can focus on the fuel side of things. I am not sure what impact spraying it through the AFM will have or if you'll have to jury rig something so you can spray it directly into the throttle body (does incorrect/no flow in AFM signal the engine to shut off??). But that's a great way to reduce the search.
Without pulling the fuel pump, you could also attach a test light to the wires atop the fuel access plate that will show if the fuel pump shuts down instantly when it happens, or if the fuel pump's still pumping for a half second afterward (would indicate the fuel pump circuit is operating normally and shuts down AFTER the engine stops using fuel rather than before).
I'd also take a close look at the fuel pressure modulator/regulator since it's so easy to see right there at the front of the fuel rail. Any way to bypass it easily? Can you park another 80 next to the disabled one and run a rubber fuel line from the good engine to the bad one's fuel rail?
Just thinking aloud in a 'stream of consciousness' fashion after a rockin good bike ride....
DougM
OK. Here's the situation and things that we have tried/done to solve it.
1. Headlights are out and headlight relays do not click like they normally do.
2. Dash lights are out on the inside except for ABS/CDL/seat belt/clock/climate system.
3. Shift lock is engaging--thus we had to manually over ride the shift lock solenoid to shift the rig into 'N' for the extraction down the mountain.
4. The starter is fine--it is engaging and turning over.
5. Swapped out fuel relays and EFI fuses with ones from a running vehicle and they were fine. The ones from the disabled truck worked as well on the OK 80 series.
6. Swapped out fuel pump relay and that worked fine too.
7. Battery is good.
8. Grounds are all in place as well.
8. The main wire that is screwed onto the alternator was corroded and the 10mm nut snapped off when we tried to take it off. We pulled the plastic guard around the brass stud going into the alternator and we took the 12mm nut and torqued it down, then spliced in a new wire from the stud to the + cable and put a new 10mm nut on. Still no go.
We are going to swap out alternators tomorrow to see if the alternator itself is bad--I doubt it.
Fuel pump has been discussed. So has the ignition switch--we might swap that out as well.
Right now we are pretty much at a loss as to what it could be.
The wires running along the firewall and through the intake runners are good--we recently did a head job and retaped all of these and they are fine.
It's been a long day. I need sleep.
later.
-o-
1. Headlights are out and headlight relays do not click like they normally do.
2. Dash lights are out on the inside except for ABS/CDL/seat belt/clock/climate system.
3. Shift lock is engaging--thus we had to manually over ride the shift lock solenoid to shift the rig into 'N' for the extraction down the mountain.
4. The starter is fine--it is engaging and turning over.
5. Swapped out fuel relays and EFI fuses with ones from a running vehicle and they were fine. The ones from the disabled truck worked as well on the OK 80 series.
6. Swapped out fuel pump relay and that worked fine too.
7. Battery is good.
8. Grounds are all in place as well.
8. The main wire that is screwed onto the alternator was corroded and the 10mm nut snapped off when we tried to take it off. We pulled the plastic guard around the brass stud going into the alternator and we took the 12mm nut and torqued it down, then spliced in a new wire from the stud to the + cable and put a new 10mm nut on. Still no go.
We are going to swap out alternators tomorrow to see if the alternator itself is bad--I doubt it.
Fuel pump has been discussed. So has the ignition switch--we might swap that out as well.
Right now we are pretty much at a loss as to what it could be.
The wires running along the firewall and through the intake runners are good--we recently did a head job and retaped all of these and they are fine.
It's been a long day. I need sleep.
later.
-o-
Did you disconnect the harness from the glove box end? Maybe one of the connecters is damaged /not plugged in all the way?
The three or four pin connector on the alternator has been known to cause some very strange problems, if memory serves.
If the connector is dirty, corroded, etc., it can cause ignition failure. Based on symptoms , this connector (with engine not-running) is in a correct connection position. As soon as the engine starts the vibration moves the connector/wires and poof goes the ignition, shutting down the engine.
...
If the connector is dirty, corroded, etc., it can cause ignition failure. Based on symptoms , this connector (with engine not-running) is in a correct connection position. As soon as the engine starts the vibration moves the connector/wires and poof goes the ignition, shutting down the engine.
...
More info: The engine will run for 10 to 40 seconds before it dies (random). When it's running the alternator is putting out almost 14 volts. When it dies the headlights go out at the moment the RPM's start to drop (not after the engine has quit turning over).
If the headlights don't work it won't run, correct? Headlight circuit problem?
If the headlights don't work it won't run, correct? Headlight circuit problem?
I had a very similar situation on an old Triumph a long time ago. Very same symptoms. Now that car didn't have all the fancy computers and electrical systems we have in the cruiser, but what happened was that the stator in the alternator actually shorted out (crappy Lucas stuff). When first started, it would run a bit, then either create a big drain on the system (you could feel it) and either kill the engine completely, or just briefly until the temporary short was gone.
I'm more inclined to think it's the fuel system in this case since I've never encountered a bad stator since then...but you never know.
I'm more inclined to think it's the fuel system in this case since I've never encountered a bad stator since then...but you never know.
Ya, that's what I recall. Even thought we hotwired around the fuse links we still didn't have power from the headlight switch to excite the headlight relay. As Onur said, we did have a very corroded connection at the alternator. The bolt broke off when we tried to clean it and we bypassed it straight to the battery. The alt was putting out +\- 14 volts when the truck ran. We couldn't get to the other alt connectors in the field. It sure seemed like a fuel cut issue to me.
One issue not mentioned in Onur's summary is Rory was reporting low voltage at the dash gauge for a time prior to the truck cutting out.
runs for a minute
i had one that was a broken wire at the airflow meter in the rubber boot that connects to the meter.
i had one that was a broken wire at the airflow meter in the rubber boot that connects to the meter.
