Radiator preventative maintenance (1 Viewer)

[bloc]

Predictable, progressive issue that is easy to monitor vs potentially changing the mode of failure (or maybe fixing it completely, no one knows yet), and ensuring that if it fails in the future it will be a surprise... yeah.

Also structural bonding for aircraft and automobiles is very different than this, given the temperature conditions and potential for pressure as well. Not to mention those applications being engineered by cutting edge firms specifically for those needs and the bonding being done to brand new material vs ours being already-compromised.

Again, I’m not saying this can’t work. For a subset of us that don’t go out to places where a radiator failure could be a giant PITA if not actually dangerous, go for it. But no one really knows whether this application is truly as good as the redesigned part, which happens to be not very expensive or difficult to install.

 

[TeCKis300]

Also structural bonding for aircraft and automobiles is very different than this, given the temperature conditions and potential for pressure as well. Not to mention those applications being engineered by cutting edge firms specifically for those needs and the bonding being done to brand new material vs ours being already-compromised.

Again, I’m not saying this can’t work. For a subset of us that don’t go out to places where a radiator failure could be a giant PITA if not actually dangerous, go for it. But no one really knows whether this application is truly as good as the redesigned part, which happens to be not very expensive or difficult to install.

I always invite anyone to question and I've been wrong before. Being a core part of of engineering and oversight in one of those cutting edge firms that works with adhesive and bonds in more difficult applications than this, I can convey some level of confidence because it is familiar to common physical principles. Every part has a finite life to balance.

Like I said, earlier is better. So long as the adhesive is designed for the application which it very much is in this case, and it is applied in a successful manner following the instructions, this will make a big useful life difference. We already know how these cracks play out. Best practice is of course for the OP to replace. Alternatively, this is a solid solution, more than you might have confidence in. It won't result in any more serious of failure mode or explosive loss of coolant. But it absolutely will buy time which is the goal of the OP. From my knowledge, this has strong potential to outright mitigate the original failure mode.

 

[highfructose]

I always invite anyone to question and I've been wrong before. Being a core part of of engineering and oversight in one of those cutting edge firms that works with adhesive and bonds in more difficult applications than this, I can convey some level of confidence because it is familiar to common physical principles. Every part has a finite life to balance.

Like I said, earlier is better. So long as the adhesive is designed for the application which it very much is in this case, and it is applied in a successful manner following the instructions, this will make a big useful life difference. We already know how these cracks play out. Best practice is of course for the OP to replace. Alternatively, this is a solid solution, more than you might have confidence in. It won't result in any more serious of failure mode or explosive loss of coolant. But it absolutely will buy time which is the goal of the OP. From my knowledge, this has strong potential to outright mitigate the original failure mode.

In all likelihood the water pump will be the next thing to fail. It’ll probably start weeping around 100k or so. At that point, if it happens, I’ll do the whole job: tensioner, thermostat, water pump, hoses, radiator, and maybe whatever else will be very easy to mess with at that point.

but, like I said, and you seem to agree, doing that $500 or so in parts service at 80k even though there’s no leak seems unreasonable-as does needing to replace a 200 series radiator at 80k. So the 12 dollar fix is the gamble...and I’ve got another 12 dollar radiator patch just in case...

 

[TeCKis300]

In all likelihood the water pump will be the next thing to fail. It’ll probably start weeping around 100k or so. At that point, if it happens, I’ll do the whole job: tensioner, thermostat, water pump, hoses, radiator, and maybe whatever else will be very easy to mess with at that point.

but, like I said, and you seem to agree, doing that $500 or so in parts service at 80k even though there’s no leak seems unreasonable-as does needing to replace a 200 series radiator at 80k. So the 12 dollar fix is the gamble...and I’ve got another 12 dollar radiator patch just in case...

Patched or not, the LX does make it harder to see an early seep as it has covers over the radiator. First sign of any coolant leak, even small, will be a sweet scent when exiting a hot car. Should be more obvious walking nearer the front. It's a useful sign for this, waterpump, or engine valley leak, before it becomes anywhere near a serious problem.

 

[bloc]

I always invite anyone to question and I've been wrong before. Being a core part of of engineering and oversight in one of those cutting edge firms that works with adhesive and bonds in more difficult applications than this, I can convey some level of confidence because it is familiar to common physical principles. Every part has a finite life to balance.

Like I said, earlier is better. So long as the adhesive is designed for the application which it very much is in this case, and it is applied in a successful manner following the instructions, this will make a big useful life difference. We already know how these cracks play out. Best practice is of course for the OP to replace. Alternatively, this is a solid solution, more than you might have confidence in. It won't result in any more serious of failure mode or explosive loss of coolant. But it absolutely will buy time which is the goal of the OP. From my knowledge, this has strong potential to outright mitigate the original failure mode.

The attached picture is a major reason I consider a patch, even one that addresses the known crack problem, inferior to a new radiator. This was pulled from a ~110k mile LX570 then sat behind my garage for a couple months, at which point I noticed the color of this and got a picture. This material is clearly compromised in a way that laying a patch over the top is truly a bandaid fix. No, the outside of the tank doesn't look like this, but the inside is approaching the same condition. Postmortems on failed upper tanks showed as much.

And no, so far there isn't a rash of upper inlets snapping off around 110k miles.. my point is this is the state of the material we are working with.

A new radiator is still a real solution to the problem, vs a hopeful one.

View attachment 2584408

 

[rlynch356]

JB water weld usually works very well if you prep the surface first, its still temporary but can last a while.. mostly get you home and then fix your stuff.

 

[4gotalot]

This is more good info for those of you who open your hood to find your engine compartment covered in a pink mess. The PSA radiator page is a great place to start to learn from so many other surprise failures.

Thank you to those above who mentioned not to just drive off with your radiator cap off. Your cooling system has its limits, pressurized or in an unpressurized situation. If you are not familiar with the cooling system in your vehicle and what it is capable of, do not run the engine until you locate the source. This means you may have to call for assistance and get it towed to a shop. Driving with an unpressurized cooling system is a common trail fix but needs to be done after a thorough evaluation of the cooling system before starting the engine.

Does any one else remember carrying extra water jugs rolling around in the back of the truck that were not for drinking but were for the cooling system for your rig just in case or the other rig you helped on the trail?

 

[highfructose]

Patched or not, the LX does make it harder to see an early seep as it has covers over the radiator. First sign of any coolant leak, even small, will be a sweet scent when exiting a hot car. Should be more obvious walking nearer the front. It's a useful sign for this, waterpump, or engine valley leak, before it becomes anywhere near a serious problem.

Yeah I took all those plastic covers off as soon as I got the truck...I think those covers are there for first owners with warranties...

by removing all the covers I made space to add a jack stand, jumper cables, and arb compressor. There’s so much empty space under the hood, I figured it only made sense to store some bulky items.

 

[TeCKis300]

Yeah I took all those plastic covers off as soon as I got the truck...I think those covers are there for first owners with warranties...

by removing all the covers I made space to add a jack stand, jumper cables, and arb compressor. There’s so much empty space under the hood, I figured it only made sense to store some bulky items.

Hate to break it to you but those covers aren't completely cosmetic. The forward portions between the grill/headlight and radiator support are important to maximize radiator performance by channeling air into the radiator (instead of over), and to keep hot underhood air from circulating back through. Probably not the biggest deal unless you live in really hot climates or carry especially heavy loads.

Would be cool to see how you made storage space just the same.

 

[highfructose]

Hate to break it to you but those covers aren't completely cosmetic. The forward portions between the grill/headlight and radiator support are important to maximize radiator performance by channeling air into the radiator (instead of over), and to keep hot underhood air from circulating back through. Probably not the biggest deal unless you live in really hot climates or carry especially heavy loads.

Would be cool to see how you made storage space just the same.

Yeah that makes sense. I will keep an eye on the temp gauge and perhaps pay the price for a compromised cooling system...I live in central Florida so it’s always hot.

storage under the hood is straight forward:
-Jumper cables are coiled up between the air box and the cab
-“center post” of the Jack stand is nestled in the center of the coiled jumper cables
-main body of the Jack stand is bungee’d in the open space behind the passenger headlight
-arb compressor is mounted behind the battery using those three threaded bolt holes on the side of the inner fender...I bubba’d a homemade bracket using a $7 piece of metal from Home Depot, a grinder, a hammer, and a bench vice. Couldn’t bring myself to spend $120 on a mount for an arb compressor I got for half off ($175).

I, as a rule, only use jumper cables to “charge” a dead battery. I use a jumper battery to jump batteries...the one I got on Amazon only lost 2% of its charge over the course of 2 years (it had a gauge)...and then when I actually used it to jump my battery, it only used another 2%. These modern jumper batteries are crazy. And surprisingly compact.

and having a Jack stand is a must for tire changes or other work if I break down some random place...plus I cram the tire under the car too.

TACKLIFE T8 800A Peak 18000mAh Lithium Car Jump Starter for Up to 7.0L Gas or 5.5L Diesel Engine, 12V Auto Battery Booster with LCD Screen, Portable Power Bank with USB Quick Charge Amazon product ASIN B07BGRN4TF

 

[FinallyGotOne!]

More great radiator discussion. We can keep kicking around whether or not JB Weld is a good proactive measure...but it's been a couple of years since the idea first surfaced and I have yet to read of a JB Welded radiator failure at the stress crack. However, there have been plenty of non-JB Weld failures reported.

I proactively JB Welded mine at 60K when it had just a slight crack. I'm now at 85K and still awaiting the first proactively-welded radiator on IH8MUD to fail. Then we'll all know. Until then, I've invested $12 that, at the very least, might keep it together for a few extra miles. It's certainly not hiding anything and not hurting anything.

 

[BigMF]

More great radiator discussion. We can keep kicking around whether or not JB Weld is a good proactive measure...but it's been a couple of years since the idea first surfaced and I have yet to read of a JB Welded radiator failure at the stress crack. However, there have been plenty of non-JB Weld failures reported.

I proactively JB Welded mine at 60K when it had just a slight crack. I'm now at 85K and still awaiting the first proactively-welded radiator on IH8MUD to fail. Then we'll all know. Until then, I've invested $12 that, at the very least, might keep it together for a few extra miles. It's certainly not hiding anything and not hurting anything.

Just FYI, I'm over a year and 15,000+ miles into my proactive JB Weld patch as well.

 

[4gotalot]

All is well with my carbon fiber patch. 2-3 cycles a day on the radiator and now at 78k miles. The crack was visible at 50k. I don't want to do any math.

Ref: Radiator Failure and PSA . Its a good read to get the rest of the story for those of you looking for more info.

 

[degmla]

Radiator Repair?

Mine still holding. Granted, it's only been ~4k miles.

 

[highfructose]

Radiator Repair?

Mine still holding. Granted, it's only been ~4k miles.

I came across an interesting idea on YouTube today.

Supposedly flex seal type tape works to patch a radiator hose...I doubt it would work for the long term, but it would probably get you home.

I plan to add some to my kit.

 

[degmla]

I came across an interesting idea on YouTube today.

Supposedly flex seal type tape works to patch a radiator hose...I doubt it would work for the long term, but it would probably get you home.

I plan to add some to my kit.

I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about? Or, more specifically, what you are saying in regard to the radiator stress riser proactive repair conversations?

 

[highfructose]

I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about? Or, more specifically, what you are saying in regard to the radiator stress riser proactive repair conversations

If you’re the kind of person that proactively patches a radiator before it breaks...or carries a radiator patch in case a radiator blows...you might also want to carry some flex seal tape so you can patch a radiator hose in the event it blows some place that you can’t readily source a replacement hose.

 

[degmla]

If you’re the kind of person that proactively patches a radiator before it breaks...or carries a radiator patch in case a radiator blows...you might also want to carry some flex seal tape so you can patch a radiator hose in the event it blows some place that you can’t readily source a replacement hose.

I'm not. No apparent reason for you to think that? No reason for you to single me out as if I somehow expressed any concern for various hoses, cooling fans, thermostats, etc.? I was intending to stay on topic: known radiator stress riser failures. I'm not aware of any hose failures that you seem suddenly interested in? And, if you are, you should consider starting a new thread with that as the topic.

All I keep is a tire repair kit and inflator.

 

[highfructose]

I'm not. No apparent reason for you to think that? No reason for you to single me out as if I somehow expressed any concern for various hoses, cooling fans, thermostats, etc.? I was intending to stay on topic: known radiator stress riser failures. I'm not aware of any hose failures that you seem suddenly interested in? And, if you are, you should consider starting a new thread with that as the topic.

All I keep is a tire repair kit and inflator.

Oh my bad. I didn’t mean to single you out. I hit reply and assumed it was to the thread, not to you specifically. I’ll be more careful next time.

 

[degmla]

Oh my bad. I didn’t mean to single you out. I hit reply and assumed it was to the thread, not to you specifically. I’ll be more careful next time.

Oh ok. For me, it's a lot of clicks to quote someone, so I assumed you were being intentional, not accidental. And, honestly, I could not tell if you were being a smart arse or not, because your comment seemed a tad random. So, based on those two aspects, you had me a little perplexed. Thanks for explaining.