Questions about having a 3F-EFI rebuilt professionally (1 Viewer)

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drew151

drew151

Joined
May 5, 2012
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Hey Y'all,

Im planning on having the original engine in my 1988 FJ62 rebuilt by a local machine shop here in Northwest Arkansas. For the purposes of this conversation you all should know that I have no mechanical skills beyond changing my own oil or changing a battery. Even the most basic repairs I have to have done professionally. Also you should know I'm not interested in a v8 conversion.

The shop seems reputable. I've gotten 2 referrals to this place from other mechanics. They have quoted me $4,700 for parts and labor. They are going to pull the engine for me, do the rebuild and put the engine back in for me. I'm scheduled to take the truck in next week.

Given that I'm not mechanically inclined could y'all help me with anticipating questions I'm probably too ignorant to ask? What have I not thought of? Are there any common modifications or tweaks I should be asking for when having an engine rebuilt? I'm supposed to go in Monday and drop off the truck and go over the parts list. Any help or advice is much appreciated.
 
I would make darn sure they don't view this engine as 'just like a small block Chevy' and that they plan to take their time and do it right. They need to be very Toyota-savvy and use Toyota parts where critical. The price does not seem out of line, including labor, etc.

I presume you're dead sure that the current engine needs a full rebuild, and not (say) a valve job? What are the symptoms that indicate you need a full rebuild?
 
Quite frankly I'm not 100 percent sure I need a complete engine rebuild. When I'm on the highway I experience a sudden loss of power. Usually after I have been driving the truck for about 20 mins. While traveling at around 65mph the truck will lose all power, but stay running. It sputters and coughs but stays running. I will coast down to about 20mph and then I'll regain power and get back up to around 60mph and then lose power again. I can get back to the house doing this back and forth between 60mph and 20 mph, having power and not having power. I've had it in two different shops and they can't diagnose or fix it. I'm also getting exhaust smell in my cab. I'm getting some white smoke out of the exhaust pipe. Its not excessive but it's visible. No knocking sounds.
 
SteveH said:
I would make darn sure they don't view this engine as 'just like a small block Chevy' and that they plan to take their time and do it right. They need to be very Toyota-savvy and use Toyota parts where critical.
Click to expand...

Also. . . how do you make sure they take their time and do the job right? I won't be standing there when they do the work. Is there a tactful way to bring up the idea that this engine isn't "just like a small block Chevy" without sounding like an a******. . . I admitiddly don't know what the hell im talking about. I realize I'm in a position to be taken advantage of.
 
Really it's impossible to fake that you know what you're talking about when you don't know what you're talking about. Not just you and your truck but all of us in life. It doesn't take long for someone who does know what they're talking about to recognize someone who doesn't, and once they realize you're faking it, well the interaction tends to not benefit the faker.

So after that life lesson is out of the way...

There comes a time in all of our lives, throughout our lives, to trust people to do things we are incapable of doing ourselves. Either be that getting a root canal, surgery or mechanic working on our car. The bottom line is trust.

The most important thing you can do to fix your car, you have already started; get as many recommendations & referrals to a reliable & trustworthy & honest shop that you can reasonably get. Then make your decision, give them the keys and have faith that not every human spinning on this dot in space is an evil MF.


Btw:
Your engine symptoms could be a failing head gasket. But these engines are so old that any mechanic seeing the odometer & year of the car naturally (and reasonably) just assume the engine needs to be rebuilt... because in reality, if it may not absolutely need a rebuild now, it surely will not too far down the line..... So you'll end up doing it eventually if you keep the car long enough.

Any of us at this point with our cruisers could benefit from a rebuilt engine. Most of us put it off until the thing conks out because of the cost & down time. But we're all just waiting & crossing our fingers hoping that today isn't going to be the day.
 
Your engine symptoms could be a failing head gasket. But these engines are so old that any mechanic seeing the odometer & year of the car naturally (and reasonably) just assume the engine needs to be rebuilt... because in reality, if it may not absolutely need a rebuild now, it surely will not too far down the line..... So you'll end up doing it eventually if you keep the car long enough.

Yes - this is like all the Ford Explorers with bad transmission solenoids. 99% of shops will say 'well, your truck has 150K on it, and most Ford transmissions have one foot in the grave by that time, so let's just rebuild it'. They fail to actually diagnose the problem at hand because they are lazy and there is far more $$ in a full rebuild than in fixing only what's broken.


You say: I've had it in two different shops and they can't diagnose or fix it. I'm also getting exhaust smell in my cab. I'm getting some white smoke out of the exhaust pipe. Its not excessive but it's visible. No knocking sounds.

Any shop contemplating a rebuild should do a dry and wet compression and oil pressure test, at a minimum, and a leak down test after that, before telling you that you need a rebuild. They should magnaflux the head and carefully inspect the block for cracks. They should either re-use the OEM oil pump, or get a Toyota one. They should only use an OEM head gasket.

My FJ62 has 253K miles, and compression is slightly below spec on a couple of cylinders. It starts and runs well, gets appropriate gas mileage, has solid oil pressure, and runs like a top. I guarantee you I could find some shops that would say that it needs a rebuild based on miles alone.


While traveling at around 65mph the truck will lose all power, but stay running. It sputters and coughs but stays running. I will coast down to about 20mph and then I'll regain power and get back up to around 60mph and then lose power again.

This could be an ignitor or fuel-related issue, and your $4700 rebuild won't do a thing to address it. I'm not trying to be a pain in the neck, but you need iron-clad evidence of what I'll call 'big-time engine distress' before you let anyone start tearing it down. Most shops (unless they have veteran Toyota guys or old guys) will be woefully ill-equipped to diagnose and fix 1989-era fuel injection systems from Toyota. No OBDII here - they will need more primal EFI skills. I'd hate to see you get a full rebuild and have the same set of issues.
 
Definitely have compression and leak-down tests performed before deciding what to do.
 
SteveH said:
I'd hate to see you get a full rebuild and have the same set of issues.
Click to expand...

I would hate that too. I guess I was counting on the idea that a full rebuild would be a "clean sweep" of all my problems and I could end this cycle of misdiagnosis or no diagnosis.
 
No, a 'full rebuild' isn't a universal term and does get interpreted differently. Many of the items attached to the engine are simply removed and reinstalled after the engine internals are rebuilt, which to that builder means a 'full rebuild'. Many will at least use a new water pump, but again, unless that is spelled out, it's up for interpretation.

A clogged fuel filter, bad fuel pressure regulator, bad head gasket, etc. could be your only problem, and as previously mentioned, a full rebuild is not guaranteed to address the root problem.
 
one must be deliberate with the machinist of their tractor engine...there is required reading, the ability to perform a functional interview of your potential machinist, the brains to walk away from an idiot, and the balls to insist to a talented know it all...NOTE***if your guy is named Jim C, then do WHAT EVER HE SAYS and say pretty please and thank you...for lack of a better phrase, there is a sort of cookie cutter way to do it right, with a few variables to the buyers liking...otherwise, the variables are to the machinists liking...or the machinists not giving a ....rats butt... Which is why I say, be deliberate.

aside from that...

4700 from engine bay to engine bay with all new parts and a warranty doesn't sound like robbery unless they are going to rob you...I paid about 34 for and assembled motor from a block and parts to a long block with some head work. I pulled it and put it in myself...the guy was good; the engines a beast... but my head gasket was bass ackwards...that was a fun saturday discovery>>>///good thing for the spare head gasket. everyone should have one. I got one the next monday from the guy on his dime. It's still on the shelf. It's the only time I've ever needed one, but DANG, it was SO good to have around that day...anyway, the moral: one, $4700 for that amount of good work ain't terrible; two, get a head gasket, and some other stuff...
three, don't fix it if it ain't broke.
clear as mud?
 
if you're really rebuilding this engine, post up; there are some things you should know, but like I say, you must be deliberate, and it's a waste of time to go thru it all for someone who isn't
 
White Stripe said:
I would just take it to a reputable cruiser shop. For 4700 it's worth a good drive to one. BTW, sounds like a bad fuel pump to me.
Click to expand...
Any recommendations on what shop? I'm in Northwest Arkansas, but I'm within striking distance of:
Tulsa, OK
Oklahoma City, OK
Dallas,TX
Kansas City, KS
 
I go to Dallas for work about once a month. I wouldn't mind finding a good shop there to do the work.
 
Based on the feedback I've gotten here my plan is to have the fuel system thoroughly checked including the fuel pump, the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel filter. I'll also ask for a compression test and a leak down test before I pull the trigger on the engine rebuild. Thanks to everybody who gave advice. It has been helpful.
 
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